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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5425
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Much of what makes the game interesting and fun are the variety of dropsuit types, equipment, and the weapon selection. New players starting out with their starter fits will miss out completely on the light suits, heavy suits, mass drivers, laser rifles, scrambler rifles, active scanners, remote explosives, repair tool, etc. The starter fits only show the most generic options like AR assault, sniper, medic, and anti-tank; all of which are only using medium frame suits.
The first few battles will decide whether or not new players will stick with Dust, or quit the game, so why not try to impress the new players with Dust's unique selection instead of just showing them the generic stuff? Sure they could just go buy new suits and weapons in the militia section, but not all weapons have militia versions, and expecting new players to explore the market instead of jumping in a battle is pretty ridiculous considering most don't have the patience to do the tutorials. It is your job to make them find the game appealing, they shouldn't have to look through a bunch of menus and upgrade a bunch of skills to find good things about the game; most won't have the patience for that anyway.
The solution is to create militia versions of all weapons and equipment (militia MD for example can have 4 rounds), and have that variety of militia weapons and equipment present in the starter fits. Include lights and heavies as well in the starter fits. Example of possible militia presets in starter fits: Light + shotgun + active scanner
Medium + scrambler rifle + nanite injector
Heavy + forge gun + SMG
light + swarm launcher + remote explosive
Medium + mass driver + repair tool
Heavy + HMG
Medium + laser rifle + nanite injector
Which would you rather new players say: "Oh, an assault rifle like every other shooter, okay I guess..." or "OMG! I gave a freaking gun made of gold that shoots lasers! AWESOME!"? Do yourself a favor, and and make your starter fits more interesting. |
Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy
302
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agreed - It also gives them the chance to see if they like a weapon or suit before spending SP on it. Now if they would only make the Academy last a decent amount so that newberries can try out the suits in a nice little protective environment, all will be well. |
Ren Ratner
Infinite Raiders
59
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whenever I ask a new player what suit he's running, the answer is "I've been using the medic."
CCPs problem with providing more of these suits probably lies in the fact that they'd rather have players buying MLT BPOs instead of having a variety of Starter Fits to choose from.
Instead of having a wide array of infinite stock starter fits, give new players several expendable MLT fittings. 10 or more of each MLT suit with some premade fittings, similar to those posted by OP. Showcase the gameplay a little instead of providing them with the most boring loadouts possible.
Introducing players to MLT gear in this way would do several things. New players would be introduced to MLT gear and it's lack of skill requirements instead of running around in Assault - Medic until they get bored or learn how to navigate the marketplace. When they run out of suits, they'll learn that they can restock the fitting. Since they actually have a stock of these items, they'll be able to play around with new loadouts. New players can be encouraged to try something other than an AR. |
Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy
303
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ren Ratner wrote:Whenever I ask a new player what suit he's running, the answer is "I've been using the medic."
CCPs problem with providing more of these suits probably lies in the fact that they'd rather have players buying MLT BPOs instead of having a variety of Starter Fits to choose from.
Instead of having a wide array of infinite stock starter fits, give new players several expendable MLT fittings. 10 or more of each MLT suit with some premade fittings, similar to those posted by OP. Showcase the gameplay a little instead of providing them with the most boring loadouts possible.
Good idea but I would increase the amount of premade fits. Its going to take more than 10x usage for someone to get a feel for the suit and weapon. |
Ren Ratner
Infinite Raiders
59
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Ren Ratner wrote:Whenever I ask a new player what suit he's running, the answer is "I've been using the medic."
CCPs problem with providing more of these suits probably lies in the fact that they'd rather have players buying MLT BPOs instead of having a variety of Starter Fits to choose from.
Instead of having a wide array of infinite stock starter fits, give new players several expendable MLT fittings. 10 or more of each MLT suit with some premade fittings, similar to those posted by OP. Showcase the gameplay a little instead of providing them with the most boring loadouts possible. Good idea but I would increase the amount of premade fits. Its going to take more than 10x usage for someone to get a feel for the suit and weapon.
That's when they restock it or try out another suit. Now they've been introduced to the fact that suits cost ISK. |
Terry Webber
Turalyon 514
317
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 17:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
More starting fits would be great for new players. However, I think they should start with these fits:
- Assault + scrambler rifle + scrambler pistol + nanohive
- Assault + swarm launcher + SMG
- Assault + mass driver + flaylock pistol
- Commando + scrambler rifle + assault rifle
- Logistics + assault rifle + repair tool + nanite injector + drop uplink
- Scout + shotgun + active scanner
- Scout + sniper rifle
- Sentinel + HMG
- Sentinel + forge gun + SMG
|
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
622
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
New players need to see what the game offers at high SP
Logi's need to know they gain equip slots but loose a side arm. heavies need to know they are fat scouts need to know for the most they have been mugged by CCP's Caldari 1st policy
etc
etc |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5438
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 21:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ren Ratner wrote:Whenever I ask a new player what suit he's running, the answer is "I've been using the medic."
CCPs problem with providing more of these suits probably lies in the fact that they'd rather have players buying MLT BPOs instead of having a variety of Starter Fits to choose from.
Instead of having a wide array of infinite stock starter fits, give new players several expendable MLT fittings. 10 or more of each MLT suit with some premade fittings, similar to those posted by OP. Showcase the gameplay a little instead of providing them with the most boring loadouts possible.
Introducing players to MLT gear in this way would do several things. New players would be introduced to MLT gear and it's lack of skill requirements instead of running around in Assault - Medic until they get bored or learn how to navigate the marketplace. When they run out of suits, they'll learn that they can restock the fitting. Since they actually have a stock of these items, they'll be able to play around with new loadouts. New players can be encouraged to try something other than an AR. Good idea, but I would have one fit (probably the AR assault) be unlimited. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
216
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 22:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
1. racial fits more racist please (scrambler on amarr suits etc) 2. mix of infinite and non-infinite fits (suggest only assaults are infinite) 3. Some cool equipment types. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
637
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 23:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Indeed.
More diversity in MIL equals more diversity at proto. |
|
Funky Chunky
FunkyStars
13
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 02:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Obviously you all didn't think it was that boring cause you're still playing Dust. |
Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
80
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 03:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:1. racial fits more racist please (scrambler on amarr suits etc) 2. mix of infinite and non-infinite fits (suggest only assaults are infinite) 3. Some cool equipment types.
A little hard to pull off at the moment with the piecemeal state of the racial suits/weapons( as i wrote this i just kept finding hole after hole ), but in the end that would be very cool.
Give them setups that match their starting race, and then a few from other races to add flavor, show options.
So if they start amarr they see something like (not listing the full loadouts, just a couple items to get the idea):
Amarr Assault - Scrambler Rifle - Infinite Amarr Logistics - [ Amarr MD variant? Laser rifle?] - 30 copies Amarr Scout - [ Amarr Shotgun?] - Uplinks - infinite Amarr Heavy - [ Amarr HMG? ] - 30 copies Amarr Scout?Heavy? - [ Amarr Sniper Rifle ] - infinite
- ug, should have picked something other than amarr, so many holes.... -
Caldari Assault - [ Rail rifle ] - Hives - 30 copies Minmatar Logistics - MD - Rep tool - 30 copies Gallente Assault - Plasma Cannon - 30 copies
In the end I think the big points to hammer home are covered by a mix of infinite and limited run fits, and providing them with a wide range of fits, letting them see some of the more exotic weapons. Make sure they have long and close range fits. Make sure they have armor and shield tanked fits. |
Sardonk Eternia
Multnomah Interstellar Holdings Inc.
139
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 10:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lots of great points in this thread. The current starter fits do suck ass. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1161
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 10:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 for the OP.
Def. need militia fits for new players to test.
make a few fits infinite, make the rest 40-count, and repurchaseable |
tander09
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
36
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 10:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:1. racial fits more racist please (scrambler on amarr suits etc) 2. mix of infinite and non-infinite fits (suggest only assaults are infinite) 3. Some cool equipment types. A little hard to pull off at the moment with the piecemeal state of the racial suits/weapons( as i wrote this i just kept finding hole after hole ), but in the end that would be very cool. Give them setups that match their starting race, and then a few from other races to add flavor, show options. So if they start amarr they see something like (not listing the full loadouts, just a couple items to get the idea): Amarr Assault - Scrambler Assault Rifle - Infinite Amarr Logistics - [ Amarr MD variant? Laser rifle?] - 30 copies Amarr Scout - [ Amarr Shotgun?] - Uplinks - infinite Amarr Heavy - [ Amarr HMG? ] - 30 copies Amarr Scout?Heavy? - [ Amarr Scrambler Sniper Rifle ] - infinite - ug, should have picked something other than amarr, so many holes.... - Caldari Assault - [ Rail rifle ] - Hives - 30 copies Minmatar Logistics - MD - Rep tool - 30 copies Gallente Assault - Plasma Cannon - 30 copies In the end I think the big points to hammer home are covered by a mix of infinite and limited run fits, and providing them with a wide range of fits, letting them see some of the more exotic weapons. Make sure they have long and close range fits. Make sure they have armor and shield tanked fits. Fixed, need to make sure scrambler varients aren't confused with. |
Ren Ratner
Infinite Raiders
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Funky Chunky wrote:Obviously you all didn't think it was that boring cause you're still playing Dust.
Unlike many new players, I immediately purchased MLT gear to build the role I wanted. I never used the Assault Starter Fits because they are bland and useless unless your goal is to spend 0 ISK. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5462
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Funky Chunky wrote:Obviously you all didn't think it was that boring cause you're still playing Dust. Given the amount of people who tried the game, and the amount still actually playing, I'd say we are the exception, not the rule. I came in the closed beta, and already had knowledge of the game's features like the market, skills, and all I needed to know to make my own fits instead of using starter fits. Also the closed beta had more variety in the starter fits, only recently have they been homogenized to one frame size. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
221
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 00:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Also it would be a good part of the tutorial to coach someone through replacing the militia plate with a basic plate :) |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5515
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 03:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hopefully such changes will be included in the NPE changes of 1.4 |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5528
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Blue tag would be nice |
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5557
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 12:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Any more thoughts? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2142
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 14:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Points for racism! (I should add that I think people with pre-Dust-Launch characters should be offered at least a one-time chance to change their race and associated starter-fit availability... or the latter if nothing else).
I think racial variety would be great, especially in the context of differentiating possible roles for the given races out of the gate. There's some problems here in that there is a decided lack of racial variety in Heavy and Light suits (and some missing weapons). So, I'll just make up stuff:
Amarr Assault 1x MLT DMG Mod 1x MLT High Slot Armor Hardener Mod that doesn't exist yet 1x MLT Scrambler Rifle 1x MLT Scrambler Pistol 1x MLT Grenade
Minmatar Assault 1x MLT Shield Extender 1x MLT Shield Recharger 1x MLT Cardio Regulator 1x MLT Combat Rifle doesn't exist 1x MLT Flaylock Pistol doesn't exist
Caldari Assault 1x MLT Shield Extender 1x MLT Shield Extender 1x MLT Shield Regulator 1x MLT Rail Rifle doesn't exist 1x MLT Bolt Pistol doesn't exist 1x MLT Flux Grenade doesn't exist
Gallente Assault 1x MLT Armor Repairer 1x MLT Armor Repairer 1x MLT Armor Plates 1x MLT Plasma Rifle 1x MLT Ion Pistol doesn't exist 1x MLT Grenade
I'd echo the idea of more interesting role suits as well. Pre-uprising you could actually have a little BPO fit for Logistics/Heavy because you chose that when you made your character. It's comparably much more difficult to try out logistics now than it was then (Heavy MLT suits are relatively cheap though). It gets harder to guess the other racial fits with the lack of information we have:
Gallente Heavy 1x MLT Plasma Thrower 1x MLT Burst Ion Pistol
Amarr Heavy 1x MLT Gatling Laser/1x Heavy Laser 1x MLT Burst Scrambler SMG
Minmatar Heavy 1x MLT HMG 1x MLT SMG
Caldari Heavy 1x MLT Forge Gun 1x MLT Magsec SMG
So, I suppose there's issues here of a lack of MLT variants, racial differentiation, old players being stuck with prior racial choices, and uninviting variety in the early suit types. |
Nihilus Warwick
Pradox XVI
8
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 14:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Much of what makes the game interesting and fun are the variety of dropsuit types, equipment, and the weapon selection. New players starting out with their starter fits will miss out completely on the light suits, heavy suits, mass drivers, laser rifles, scrambler rifles, active scanners, remote explosives, repair tool, etc. The starter fits only show the most generic options like AR assault, sniper, medic, and anti-tank; all of which are only using medium frame suits.
The first few battles will decide whether or not new players will stick with Dust, or quit the game, so why not try to impress the new players with Dust's unique selection instead of just showing them the generic stuff? Sure they could just go buy new suits and weapons in the militia section, but not all weapons have militia versions, and expecting new players to explore the market instead of jumping in a battle is pretty ridiculous considering most don't have the patience to do the tutorials. It is your job to make them find the game appealing, they shouldn't have to look through a bunch of menus and upgrade a bunch of skills to find good things about the game; most won't have the patience for that anyway.
The solution is to create militia versions of all weapons and equipment (militia MD for example can have 4 rounds), and have that variety of militia weapons and equipment present in the starter fits. Include lights and heavies as well in the starter fits. Example of possible militia presets in starter fits:
Light + shotgun + active scanner
Medium + scrambler rifle + nanite injector
Heavy + forge gun + SMG
light + swarm launcher + remote explosive
Medium + mass driver + repair tool
Heavy + HMG
Medium + laser rifle + nanohive
Which would you rather new players say: "Oh, an assault rifle like every other shooter, okay I guess..." or "OMG! I have a freaking gun made of gold that shoots lasers! AWESOME!"? Do yourself a favor, and and make your starter fits more interesting.
EDIT: Also it would help new players figure out what they like, and thus what they should skill into.
EDIT2: Having all but one of starter fits made of DEPLETABLE militia items will teach the players to restock, and to understand the finite nature of items in Dust. Would also protect the value of AUR BPOs.
You sir, get a like. Militia variants of everything would be awesome, but giving newbs a decent selection of depletable militia grade starter fits is a great idea. This would probably get people to skill into things that aren't assault rifles. |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
195
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
I really like the idea of more options in the beginning but I have a few suggestions:
1. Make the fittings non-restockable. 2. Make no fitting infinite. 3. When the player runs out of all of their fittings 1 of each starter fit would be given to the player and the fittings tutorial should be run on returning to the merc quarters(every time, ignores the disable tutorial option).
The reason for this is to promote players to create their own fittings by preventing players from sticking to the same starter fit forever. This would also diversify the types of weapons and suits found in the game by requiring them to use other weapons and suits if they want to stick with starter fit suits. The player would never run out of suits but won't always have the right suit for the job at hand unless they build their own. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
376
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
BUMP and +1 |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
810
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Don't just have MLT variants of all the weapons...
Make the weapons look and sound different.
Scrambler Rifles for example sound awesome and sci-fi-ish. Why not give the actual projectile a different color from the assault rifle? White with a faint blue hue?
Get rid of the nasty smoke trail on the SMG. Give it a heavier sound.
Give the different weapons more "character" in addition to making MLT variants available.
Give some more data on the weapons and starter fits. Make the starter fits even more race related.
Give the Amarr starter scrambler/assault scrambler rifles, etc. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
747
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
I once made a character for my friend and used a bunch of militia items to make 7 different roles with different equipment, weapons, and playstyles. He then found out he liked the heavy dropsuit, and he had no idea it even existed, saying "if I had known this suit was in the game I would have played it more" |
LOBO LOBOS
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 21:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
The only thing i would add is to make suits unlimited UNTIL they get out of academy. Then like a stack of 20 or so each. |
Vance Alken
Commando Perkone Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 22:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
LOBO LOBOS wrote:The only thing i would add is to make suits unlimited UNTIL they get out of academy. Then like a stack of 20 or so each.
I really like this idea, though there still has to be a single basic infinite suit just so you can't get locked out of the game. |
Lightning Bolt2
Binary Mercs Abandon PlayGrounds
190
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 01:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Much of what makes the game interesting and fun are the variety of dropsuit types, equipment, and the weapon selection. New players starting out with their starter fits will miss out completely on the light suits, heavy suits, mass drivers, laser rifles, scrambler rifles, active scanners, remote explosives, repair tool, etc. The starter fits only show the most generic options like AR assault, sniper, medic, and anti-tank; all of which are only using medium frame suits.
The first few battles will decide whether or not new players will stick with Dust, or quit the game, so why not try to impress the new players with Dust's unique selection instead of just showing them the generic stuff? Sure they could just go buy new suits and weapons in the militia section, but not all weapons have militia versions, and expecting new players to explore the market instead of jumping in a battle is pretty ridiculous considering most don't have the patience to do the tutorials. It is your job to make them find the game appealing, they shouldn't have to look through a bunch of menus and upgrade a bunch of skills to find good things about the game; most won't have the patience for that anyway.
The solution is to create militia versions of all weapons and equipment (militia MD for example can have 4 rounds), and have that variety of militia weapons and equipment present in the starter fits. Include lights and heavies as well in the starter fits. Example of possible militia presets in starter fits:
Light + shotgun + active scanner
Medium + scrambler rifle + nanite injector
Heavy + forge gun + SMG
light + swarm launcher + remote explosive
Medium + mass driver + repair tool
Heavy + HMG
Medium + laser rifle + nanohive
Which would you rather new players say: "Oh, an assault rifle like every other shooter, okay I guess..." or "OMG! I have a freaking gun made of gold that shoots lasers! AWESOME!"? Do yourself a favor, and and make your starter fits more interesting.
EDIT: Also it would help new players figure out what they like, and thus what they should skill into.
EDIT2: Having all but one of starter fits made of DEPLETABLE militia items will teach the players to restock, and to understand the finite nature of items in Dust. Would also protect the value of AUR BPOs.
+1 |
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