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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1243
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 04:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jedah McClintock wrote:Sounds like in light of recent events somebody just wants their slaves back. Dress it up all you want with scripture.
Take the same man on the same job, but two scenarios. The first he is a free man, the other enslaved. Do the Amarr really get off so much on taking away his agency, his dignity, that it's worth all the extra costs of keeping him down as opposed to paying him the market rate for an honest day's work? A slave will do what he has to in order to not be beaten, starved, or otherwise abused in ways I'd rather not dwell on. A free man selling his labor will do his best to cement a reputation for quality.
Besides, nobody gets slaves to handle a stock portfolio or to perform surgery. All that human potential is squandered for the benefit of an elite. Aren't you also screwing over your lower class peoples by shutting them out of low skill jobs you impose on slaves? ((Going to go out of character for a bit, so forgive me. It really irks me that no one actually looks at how slaves are treated in Amarr society and instead look at how slaves are treated in the history of Earth.))
Let's be honest here, if the Empire were to reinstate a Reclaiming in the traditional sense of conquer many Minmatar would end up with better living conditions and a brighter future than they do currently. |
XANDER KAG
Red Star. EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 05:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
That may be true in a handful of cases but at what cost? Short of the Elders or Republic dedicating themselves to saving them, they may never see their homes or loved ones again. You've most of the time destroyed their lives and may have killed their families so that you can "enlighten" them and force them to work for you. Don't deny it, if a slave were to just outright refuse to work you would kill him/her or at least harm them. You expect us to believe your doing what is best for us by sending so many to your "hell"? |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1275
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 05:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Jedah McClintock wrote:Sounds like in light of recent events somebody just wants their slaves back. Dress it up all you want with scripture.
Take the same man on the same job, but two scenarios. The first he is a free man, the other enslaved. Do the Amarr really get off so much on taking away his agency, his dignity, that it's worth all the extra costs of keeping him down as opposed to paying him the market rate for an honest day's work? A slave will do what he has to in order to not be beaten, starved, or otherwise abused in ways I'd rather not dwell on. A free man selling his labor will do his best to cement a reputation for quality.
Besides, nobody gets slaves to handle a stock portfolio or to perform surgery. All that human potential is squandered for the benefit of an elite. Aren't you also screwing over your lower class peoples by shutting them out of low skill jobs you impose on slaves? ((Going to go out of character for a bit, so forgive me. It really irks me that no one actually looks at how slaves are treated in Amarr society and instead look at how slaves are treated in the history of Earth.)) Let's be honest here, if the Empire were to reinstate a Reclaiming in the traditional sense of conquer many Minmatar would end up with better living conditions and a brighter future than they do currently.
Agreed but in all honesty our treaties with CONCORD would cause serious issue for any real form of reinstatement of the Reclaiming. However there are other ways to Reclaim the stars without sending in thousands of ships. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1089
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 07:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
However concord can't get involved if both party's agree to a show down and we end up taking large ammounts of POWs
Tbh I doubt this reclaiming will happen this is just a bit of grandstanding for some other goal |
Aria Gomes
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 07:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Jedah McClintock wrote:Sounds like in light of recent events somebody just wants their slaves back. Dress it up all you want with scripture.
Take the same man on the same job, but two scenarios. The first he is a free man, the other enslaved. Do the Amarr really get off so much on taking away his agency, his dignity, that it's worth all the extra costs of keeping him down as opposed to paying him the market rate for an honest day's work? A slave will do what he has to in order to not be beaten, starved, or otherwise abused in ways I'd rather not dwell on. A free man selling his labor will do his best to cement a reputation for quality.
Besides, nobody gets slaves to handle a stock portfolio or to perform surgery. All that human potential is squandered for the benefit of an elite. Aren't you also screwing over your lower class peoples by shutting them out of low skill jobs you impose on slaves? ((Going to go out of character for a bit, so forgive me. It really irks me that no one actually looks at how slaves are treated in Amarr society and instead look at how slaves are treated in the history of Earth.)) Let's be honest here, if the Empire were to reinstate a Reclaiming in the traditional sense of conquer many Minmatar would end up with better living conditions and a brighter future than they do currently.
Don't the Ammarians give Minmatar slaves drugs? Viotic or whatever it's called just to make them think they're having a eurphoric feeling. I mean that doesn't sound like fun.
((Ooc: I think it's easy to think about Earth's slavery and that comes to mind first. Ammar slavery seems more like a reeducation camp than anything.)) |
Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
78
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 08:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
XANDER KAG wrote:That may be true in a handful of cases but at what cost? Short of the Elders or Republic dedicating themselves to saving them, they may never see their homes or loved ones again. You've most of the time destroyed their lives and may have killed their families so that you can "enlighten" them and force them to work for you. Don't deny it, if a slave were to just outright refuse to work you would kill him/her or at least harm them. You expect us to believe you're doing what is best for us by sending so many to your "hell"?
Let me read to you from the book of scripture:
"So the Lord sent forth the Chosen, to bring forth the light of faith And those who embrace his love Shall be saved by his grace For we are his shepherds in the darkness His Angels of Mercy. But those who turn away from his light, And reject his true word Shall be struck down by his wrath For we are his retribution incarnate His Angels of Vengeance" - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 4:45
We are trying to bring the light of faith to those who have not yet received it. Should you accept it, you will be saved. Saved from the wretched life you know without him. This is his word. To those who would reject us our path is clear, and they should be struck down.
I am hesitant to even say this but I am beginning to wonder if the path we have walked has been the wrong one. Have we been too lenient on those who have rejected his true word? Have we enslaved and wronged those who have embraced his love?
I have no answer to this, but those we have enslaved must have either embraced him or rejected him. Their very existence suggests we have erred. |
Galm Fae
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
61
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 08:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor Peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these signs And still do not believe." - Book of Reclaiming 25:10
To truly hate an enemy, I find it is best to learn their ways. I am familiar with your scriptures. You would see the entire universe incorporated into your faith, and those who refuse murdered. You are monster, and none of you deserve my sympathy. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1278
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 09:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aria Gomes wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Jedah McClintock wrote:Sounds like in light of recent events somebody just wants their slaves back. Dress it up all you want with scripture.
Take the same man on the same job, but two scenarios. The first he is a free man, the other enslaved. Do the Amarr really get off so much on taking away his agency, his dignity, that it's worth all the extra costs of keeping him down as opposed to paying him the market rate for an honest day's work? A slave will do what he has to in order to not be beaten, starved, or otherwise abused in ways I'd rather not dwell on. A free man selling his labor will do his best to cement a reputation for quality.
Besides, nobody gets slaves to handle a stock portfolio or to perform surgery. All that human potential is squandered for the benefit of an elite. Aren't you also screwing over your lower class peoples by shutting them out of low skill jobs you impose on slaves? ((Going to go out of character for a bit, so forgive me. It really irks me that no one actually looks at how slaves are treated in Amarr society and instead look at how slaves are treated in the history of Earth.)) Let's be honest here, if the Empire were to reinstate a Reclaiming in the traditional sense of conquer many Minmatar would end up with better living conditions and a brighter future than they do currently. Don't the Ammarians give Minmatar slaves drugs? Viotic or whatever it's called just to make them think they're having a eurphoric feeling. I mean that doesn't sound like fun. ((Ooc: I think it's easy to think about Earth's slavery and that comes to mind first. Ammar slavery seems more like a reeducation camp than anything.)) Its a drug that is highly addictive and ultimately toxic unless doses are regularly administered to the person who is addicted. Whle it sounds like a terribly fate the fact that Matari would live more comfortable and peaceful lives in the Empire cannot be disputed.
((Its less of a re-education camp than it is the Amarr adopting the Matari. When the two races first met the Amarr were already a technologically advanced race with conquests under their belts and a desire to unite humanity. They considered the Matari to be like children and saw it as their duty of uplift the Matari from their tribal customs to be a strong and committed part of the empire.... which they partially succeeded in doing with the establishment of the Ammatar Mandate. In terms of the Holders who rule the Matari slaves, the Emperor Heidreran proclaimed that all slaves were to be treated with respect and kindness and that their handling was to be in such a way as to make their transitional phase between serf and equal as comfortable as possible.)) |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1278
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 09:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor Peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these signs And still do not believe." - Book of Reclaiming 25:10
To truly hate an enemy, I find it is best to learn their ways. I am familiar with your scriptures. You would see the entire universe incorporated into your faith, and those who refuse murdered. You are monster, and none of you deserve my sympathy.
Unlike the Gallente who push their ideals across the galaxy, or the Minmatar who would wage a war of vengeance because they cannot put aside their anger, I would point out the flaws of the Caldari but I respect them as allies, and would not want to insult them for their support to the empire has been loyal and unswerving.
Your anger is misplaced Galm, we are not the enemies you seek, we are the cure to corruption and sin, and that is all I shall say on the matter.
I am done.
As you have said, "There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor Peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these signs And still do not believe."
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steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1090
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 09:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
The way I see it.
If any rustbuckets fights and wins his freedom then god clearly supported him and he shall live free. If he loses and is enslaved we still have much to teach him.
So if we go to war with the republic and they win. I shall greet them as equals as this is God's chosen path. We are to unite the galaxies under are faith. That faith does not have to be under one flag at the end of the day
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Aria Gomes
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:The way I see it.
If any rustbuckets fights and wins his freedom then god clearly supported him and he shall live free. If he loses and is enslaved we still have much to teach him.
So if we go to war with the republic and they win. I shall greet them as equals as this is God's chosen path. We are to unite the galaxies under are faith. That faith does not have to be under one flag at the end of the day
Get ready for that loss Amarrian. :) Mataris we are strong people who won't go down without a fight.
I do agree with you though. I'd rather have peace than more war. Mataris are only.angry because their people were enslaved and don't even get to practice their home rituals. Sure some are given jobs but they still live in poverty. Don't you think they would like to live back with their tribes? |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1287
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 20:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aria Gomes wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:The way I see it.
If any rustbuckets fights and wins his freedom then god clearly supported him and he shall live free. If he loses and is enslaved we still have much to teach him.
So if we go to war with the republic and they win. I shall greet them as equals as this is God's chosen path. We are to unite the galaxies under are faith. That faith does not have to be under one flag at the end of the day
Get ready for that loss Amarrian. :) Mataris we are strong people who won't go down without a fight. I do agree with you though. I'd rather have peace than more war. Mataris are only.angry because their people were enslaved and don't even get to practice their home rituals. Sure some are given jobs but they still live in poverty. Don't you think they would like to live back with their tribes? You know he doesn't speak for the general beliefs of the empire. That is never going to be a stance that the empire will ever take on the Matari
Also In the E,pire no slave lives in poverty. Where ever did you get that idea? |
Aria Gomes
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 02:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Aria Gomes wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:The way I see it.
If any rustbuckets fights and wins his freedom then god clearly supported him and he shall live free. If he loses and is enslaved we still have much to teach him.
So if we go to war with the republic and they win. I shall greet them as equals as this is God's chosen path. We are to unite the galaxies under are faith. That faith does not have to be under one flag at the end of the day
Get ready for that loss Amarrian. :) Mataris we are strong people who won't go down without a fight. I do agree with you though. I'd rather have peace than more war. Mataris are only.angry because their people were enslaved and don't even get to practice their home rituals. Sure some are given jobs but they still live in poverty. Don't you think they would like to live back with their tribes? You know he doesn't speak for the general beliefs of the empire. That is never going to be a stance that the empire will ever take on the Matari Also In the E,pire no slave lives in poverty. Where ever did you get that idea?
Rumors amongst the tribes talk of slaves that live in poor areas. I've never had to deal with slavery or my family thankfully, but that's the words that were around in my Vherokior tribe. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1292
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 02:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aria Gomes wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aria Gomes wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:The way I see it.
If any rustbuckets fights and wins his freedom then god clearly supported him and he shall live free. If he loses and is enslaved we still have much to teach him.
So if we go to war with the republic and they win. I shall greet them as equals as this is God's chosen path. We are to unite the galaxies under are faith. That faith does not have to be under one flag at the end of the day
Get ready for that loss Amarrian. :) Mataris we are strong people who won't go down without a fight. I do agree with you though. I'd rather have peace than more war. Mataris are only.angry because their people were enslaved and don't even get to practice their home rituals. Sure some are given jobs but they still live in poverty. Don't you think they would like to live back with their tribes? You know he doesn't speak for the general beliefs of the empire. That is never going to be a stance that the empire will ever take on the Matari Also In the E,pire no slave lives in poverty. Where ever did you get that idea? Rumors amongst the tribes talk of slaves that live in poor areas. I've never had to deal with slavery or my family thankfully, but that's the words that were around in my Vherokior tribe.
.... Right listen to the words of those who would spread lies.... hey guess what I heard yesterday.... a Vherokior slave came up and thanked me for helping her see God's Light. |
XANDER KAG
Red Star. EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 02:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
.... Right listen to the words of those who would spread lies.... hey guess what I heard yesterday.... a Vherokior slave came up and thanked me for helping her see God's Light.
Now tell me the one about the Brutor falling in love with the Ammarian slaver lord.... And you say we lie |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1292
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 03:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
XANDER KAG wrote:True Adamance wrote:
.... Right listen to the words of those who would spread lies.... hey guess what I heard yesterday.... a Vherokior slave came up and thanked me for helping her see God's Light.
Now tell me the one about the Brutor falling in love with the Ammarian slaver lord.... And you say we lie
Im sure that one is a great Gallentean novel for middile aged women. |
Aria Gomes
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 04:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
While I don't know too much about the conditions of the slavery in Amarr territory. I can admit that Minmatars are treated unfairly by many Gallente. I can't say all Gallente citizens share a dislike of Minmatars, but majority do not like us for reasons I'm unsure of. Maybe it's how much us Minmatars have influenced their youth with our fashion sense and our ritual of Voluval. You'd be surprised how many teens I've seen with Voluval like tattoos. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 05:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
If you soak in water for very long, you'll absorb some moisture. It makes no difference whether you're chained in it or there by choice.
That your methods are effective is not seriously disputed, Templar Crusader. What the Matari, among others, dispute is your objective justification for doing so, and your ability to continue in the face of lots and lots of guns. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1294
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 05:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aria Gomes wrote:While I don't know too much about the conditions of the slavery in Amarr territory. I can admit that Minmatars are treated unfairly by many Gallente. I can't say all Gallente citizens share a dislike of Minmatars, but majority do not like us for reasons I'm unsure of. Maybe it's how much us Minmatars have influenced their youth with our fashion sense and our ritual of Voluval. You'd be surprised how many teens I've seen with Voluval like tattoos. (( The Gallente basically played the opportunistic saviors and used the Minmatar to get somebody fighting with the Amarr so they did not get al over aggressive with the Federation. They also tried to impart their government on the Matari but that never really stuck with the minmatar since they hate being told what to do)) |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1294
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 05:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:If you soak in water for very long, you'll absorb some moisture. It makes no difference whether you're chained in it or there by choice.
That your methods are effective is not seriously disputed, Templar Crusader. What the Matari, among others, dispute is your objective justification for doing so, and your ability to continue in the face of lots and lots of guns. Ms Ryeon you know as well as I do that the Amarr have better guns. |
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Galm Fae
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
61
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 05:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:If you soak in water for very long, you'll absorb some moisture. It makes no difference whether you're chained in it or there by choice.
That your methods are effective is not seriously disputed, Templar Crusader. What the Matari, among others, dispute is your objective justification for doing so, and your ability to continue in the face of lots and lots of guns. Ms Ryeon you know as well as I do that the Amarr have better guns. Really? Last I checked the Caldari were second only to the Jove, while your guns are only at their most powerful seconds before they explode into a fireball. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1294
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 05:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:True Adamance wrote:Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:If you soak in water for very long, you'll absorb some moisture. It makes no difference whether you're chained in it or there by choice.
That your methods are effective is not seriously disputed, Templar Crusader. What the Matari, among others, dispute is your objective justification for doing so, and your ability to continue in the face of lots and lots of guns. Ms Ryeon you know as well as I do that the Amarr have better guns. Really? Last I checked the Caldari were second only to the Jove, while your guns are only at their most powerful seconds before they explode into a fireball. I never mentioned anything about the Caldari since they are allies. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1098
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 07:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
I guess every body forget about that tech we got from the eve gate that whiped out a fleet in a single shot. :-) the amarr is the largest empire for a reason :-P |
Callidus Vanus
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 10:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:I guess every body forget about that tech we got from the eve gate that whiped out a fleet in a single shot. :-) the amarr is the largest empire for a reason :-P
Except the only know energy source for the Terran weapon went kaboom during the Seylin incident. So your going to have to have to go back to "throw moar ships at them!" and most of those ships are so outdated it makes Matari vessels look hi-tech my comparison. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1098
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 11:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Wow your Intel is bad >.< but keep on beliveing that makes our job a lot easer. I for Pete's sake we have been quite publicly rebuilding and rearming our fleets for years now. This is also the same empire that built the clone tech in the first place |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
((Speaking of bad intel, neither the origin of that weapon nor its eventual fate is public knowledge.))
Fae-haan: as much as I may have some sympathy towards your feelings on the Amarr, they are allies to the State. Their expansionistic tendencies are held in check by their last couple of centuries of difficulty expanding.
Templar Crusader Ouryon: the Amarr may have more technologically-advanced weapons, but the Matari have gotten good at using what they have. You may wish to ask some of your naval compatriots their thoughts on the Hurricane-class battlecruiser or the Vagabond-class heavy assault ship. Both are capsuleer favorites, and not because they are outdated and toothless. Quite the opposite. |
XANDER KAG
Red Star. EoN.
187
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 17:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:((Speaking of bad intel, neither the origin of that weapon nor its eventual fate is public knowledge.))
Fae-haan: as much as I may have some sympathy towards your feelings on the Amarr, they are allies to the State. Their expansionistic tendencies are held in check by their last couple of centuries of difficulty expanding.
Templar Crusader Ouryon: the Amarr may have more technologically-advanced weapons, but the Matari have gotten good at using what they have. You may wish to ask some of your naval compatriots their thoughts on the Hurricane-class battlecruiser or the Vagabond-class heavy assault ship. Both are capsuleer favorites, and not because they are outdated and toothless. Quite the opposite. ((hurricane FTW!))
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Sergamon Draco
Rautaleijona Top Men.
92
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 17:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Let them come,and remeber to give warm welcome |
Aria Gomes
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 19:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:((Speaking of bad intel, neither the origin of that weapon nor its eventual fate is public knowledge.))
Fae-haan: as much as I may have some sympathy towards your feelings on the Amarr, they are allies to the State. Their expansionistic tendencies are held in check by their last couple of centuries of difficulty expanding.
Templar Crusader Ouryon: the Amarr may have more technologically-advanced weapons, but the Matari have gotten good at using what they have. You may wish to ask some of your naval compatriots their thoughts on the Hurricane-class battlecruiser or the Vagabond-class heavy assault ship. Both are capsuleer favorites, and not because they are outdated and toothless. Quite the opposite.
I agree with being good with what we have. When I first applied to boot camp we were given crappy militia gear and a lot of times I still run with it, just because I'm used to its flaws and naunces. Using newer equipment like my beloved GK-13 Burst taught me something that a GEK can't teach which is pick your shots wisely and aim tighter. Now when I play with my GEK or militia, it's a more calculated playstyle. Think before doing even if it's just a split second. Creep slow, look around and then pounce like a lion to a gazelle.
Us Mataris can go toe to toe with any Amarrian no matter the equipment. Those Amarrians and their blab about technologically-advanced weapons. If they had our weapons they wouldn't know what to do. |
Galm Fae
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
61
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 20:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:((Speaking of bad intel, neither the origin of that weapon nor its eventual fate is public knowledge.))
Fae-haan: as much as I may have some sympathy towards your feelings on the Amarr, they are allies to the State. Their expansionistic tendencies are held in check by their last couple of centuries of difficulty expanding.
Templar Crusader Ouryon: the Amarr may have more technologically-advanced weapons, but the Matari have gotten good at using what they have. You may wish to ask some of your naval compatriots their thoughts on the Hurricane-class battlecruiser or the Vagabond-class heavy assault ship. Both are capsuleer favorites, and not because they are outdated and toothless. Quite the opposite. Blatant disregard of the risk isn't simply a poor move, it is inefficient. I keep insisting, we can take them now when we still can, or we can wait for them to become a problem that we can not match. Time, money, and lives would all be saved in a preemptive strike coordinated with fellow empires. I assume a fellow Caldari would see merit in such efficiency.
As far as Matari tech goes, I think you are all forgetting our friend the Rifter. What was that the owner's guide refers to them as? "Going down a staircase on an office chair dual wielding SMGs?" |
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