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Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
27
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Posted - 2013.08.30 00:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Yes, but tankers have very different perspectives on armor vs. shields than infantry does (I see most tanks armor tanking while most dropsuits shield tank) plus they have better repairers, passive modules, active modules, etc.
I have no idea what to do with tanks, but from my experience they seem to have an entirely different view on what needs to be done to armor and shields. Hopefully CCP can answer their problems as well as infantry's in the following patches; this one has given me some more hope. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
23
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Posted - 2013.08.30 01:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
I doubt Tankers will ever be happy, as a group/role, with the Shield vs Armour thing. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
27
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Posted - 2013.08.31 00:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
True; hopefully they can at least get some balance. I hope this patch will help with that, but I think people with my playstyle will diminish now that armor isn't as taxing on mobility. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
25
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Posted - 2013.08.31 00:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
I doubt Mobile Heavies will vanish, if anything the armour buff will make them harder. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
27
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Posted - 2013.08.31 20:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Yeah that's more likely to happen; maybe Ferroscale and Reactive plates will see some more use as well. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
26
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Posted - 2013.09.01 23:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Reactive Plates need sometime to make them a viable alternative to Armour Rep Modules, other than lower CPU.
Ferroscale, on the other hand, are good for mobility based suits (not just Heavies) since they have no weight penalty. A bigger boost to their HP bonus would help them a lot. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
30
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Posted - 2013.09.01 23:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
I think CCP's reasoning behind reactive plates is the ability to stack them without using up all your low slots, but that isn't much of a justification. Ferroscale plates are decent, and I think we'll see more use out of them with the increase in health with 1.4. I'm particularly interested to see how Ferroscale plates do with a Sentinel seeing as they have 4 low slots at the proto level. No speed penalty and, despite stacking penalties, a significant increase in armor. Now all we need is a Minmatar suit and we've got a true mobile heavy. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
26
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Posted - 2013.09.02 00:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Armour plates don't have a stacking penalty, only a weight penalty. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
30
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Posted - 2013.09.02 01:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Wow, I feel stupid lol. Thanks for pointing that out. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
27
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Posted - 2013.09.02 10:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Considering that just about everything else has a stacking penalty, Armour Reps being the only other exception I can think of right now, it was a valid assumption. |
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Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
32
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Posted - 2013.09.02 14:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Thanks; speaking of armor reps, I've been looking into how skill level affects their total rate, and with my maxed out skill I can stack two advanced armor reps and the total rate is as if I have 3 equipped. With maxing the skill out I have a Sentinel with with a repair rate of 12, assuming I stack two proto reps. Now I'm looking into the bonus with plates, especially with reactive plates; if a repairing bonus and armor bonus both apply then maybe its stats become somewhat decent. |
Bears Beets
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
845
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 18:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Damus Trifarn wrote:Thanks; speaking of armor reps, I've been looking into how skill level affects their total rate, and with my maxed out skill I can stack two advanced armor reps and the total rate is as if I have 3 equipped. With maxing the skill out I have a Sentinel with with a repair rate of 12, assuming I stack two proto reps. Now I'm looking into the bonus with plates, especially with reactive plates; if a repairing bonus and armor bonus both apply then maybe its stats become somewhat decent.
With Armor Repair level 5, Complex Repair modules mend 6.25 armor per tick. In-game you'll see this as 3 ticks for 6 and 1 tick for 7. However, the bonus from Armor Repair does not apply to Reactive Plates for whatever reason. CCP has said this is intended. |
Bears Beets
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
846
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Posted - 2013.09.02 18:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Also with 1.4 patch notes up, a lot of things you're discussing will change. Armor Plates will once again be worth having at higher levels and Ferroscale/Reactive Plates will still be useless to a Heavy. 1.4 Patch Notes
Here are some excerpts of Heavy-related changes:
CCP Logibro wrote:Movement * Removed rotation modifier on heavy frames - all frames can now rotate at the same speed
CCP Logibro wrote:Modules/Equipment * Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5) * Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5) * Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)
CCP Logibro wrote:Skills * All handheld weapon reload skills now have a cost multiplier of x3 (down from x6) and their skill book ISK price reduced to 203,000 from 774,000 * All heavy weapon reload skills now provide a 5% bonus, up from 3% * The Forge Gun, Mass Driver, Swarm Launcher, and Plasma Cannon ammo skills now provide 1 extra unit of ammo for each level of the skill (for a maximum of 5) instead of a % bonus per level * The HMG Operation skill bonus has been changed from reducing heat build-up to reducing recoil by 5% per level |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
33
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Posted - 2013.09.02 21:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
Thanks for the info; I neglected to look at the patch more closely concerning the exact changes to armor modules. The removal of the rotation modifier will be awesome, and I'm also ready to try out my new proto repairers. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
27
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Posted - 2013.09.02 22:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
The buff to the Armour Plates' HP bonus is small, about 20HP per plate, but very welcome. The main point of excitement for an Armour Heavy is the decrease in speed penalty per plate. Complex plates are literally halved! That's going to make like SO much easier when moving on objectives. The turning speed buff will help a lot with the HMG's shortcomings.
The ammo bonus tweak for the Forge Gun is nice. +5 ammo? Yes please.
The change to the HMG bonus is kind of a mixed one for me; losing the heat build up bonus is going to mean adjusting how I fire, but the recoil reduction is MUCH needed for the HMG.
Thanks for covering the patch notes Bears. |
Miles O'Rourke
Beyond Gravity.OTF
5
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Posted - 2013.09.02 23:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
castba wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Nothing makes you smile like getting a direct hit on an Assault charging you down. Back on topic, getting Biotics up to level 5 gives heavies a 5.3 sprint speed without Kin Cats.
I thought that the bonus for those Biotic skills only made the modules more effective i.e: gave the modules a boost, not your baseline. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
33
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Posted - 2013.09.02 23:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
No, fortunately the bonus gives your dropsuit a base +1% on stamina, stamina recovery, and sprint speed per level (I think I'm forgetting one though) |
Miles O'Rourke
Beyond Gravity.OTF
5
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Posted - 2013.09.03 01:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mega, I think he means the core Biotics skill. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
28
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Posted - 2013.09.03 01:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
Miles O'Rourke wrote:Mega, I think he means the core Biotics skill.
Crap, I forgot about that skill. I only looked at the Cardiac/Kinetic etc Biotic skills |
GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
120
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Posted - 2013.09.03 04:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Basic all the way. Damage will beat a Set with more EHP or if it is a little faster by about .15
2 complex damage mod, basic green battery's, 2 Complex Cat's, and flux nades for all you shield players :)
This gives the player the DPS plus 6.80 sprint speed. You dont need extra EHP. 1012EHP is crazy and to be sprinting .20 slower then an assault with almost or double the EHP.
Even tho the SET suit has more low's what are you going to do? After so many red battery's you dont move that much faster and just using the SET suit you lose out on DPS.
Even if you put more armor on your only hurting your self. Think of it like this. The slow you are the more bullets you take. With sprint speed of 6.80 I take less bullets. Yes you may have more EHP but your subject to Nades and way more bullets lowering your EHP to lower then mine. Dont think you can just stand in one spot. You'll have to move when a core nade come to you :)
I have tried the Armor build and armor rep build BUT Its nothing like moving faster. What do you do when I'm running beside you. "holy poop batman he is a fast heavy! "
Overall speed means less bullets and that one more extra highslot means I put out more DPS killing the SET suit just on he cant match the DPS. Only being .20 spring speed from an assault suit is really good. You still cant run from me :)
My QQ: I would like to point out that Cat mods are crazy. How in the world can I make my Fat Boy run a little slower then you OR faster then you? I'm no longer an heavy. I'm an assault with HMG with more EHP at base. As for logys you guys spring faster then scouts! I dont think its right that anyone class with lower sprint speed can sprint faster then another suit with CAT mods. It should never pass a class or come so close to another suit with a higher base spring speed. Its jumping out of the role we have to another role that it isnt meant to be. Yes I love running as fast as you guys as a fat boy but I dont think its right at the same time. |
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Bears Beets
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
850
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Posted - 2013.09.03 04:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
GET ATMESON, you make a good point. If I had the SP to throw around, I'd give your build a try. However, I don't think I'd be able to give up my Complex Armor Repairer. I'd probably have to run Cardreg, Kincat, and Repper for my 3 lows. I'd really like to see how your fit performs in-game. I bet it's awesome to watch
As for the patch, I'm really not excited about the changes to the HMG Operation skill. Recoil is not an issue. Bullet spread is. You can mitage 100% of recoil by feathering R1 (firing until the reticle starts to shake, then letting go and re-pressing R1 super fast resets the recoil buildup). I am, however, rather interested in reload skills. They've been pretty useless up until now, but with the reduced SP cost and increased bonus, you should be able to lower your 8 second reload to something like 5 seconds. Could be interesting.
Sorry to take this thread away from its original purpose, but I just can't stop myself once I start talking Heavy |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
33
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Posted - 2013.09.03 11:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Bears Beets wrote:GET ATMESON, you make a good point. If I had the SP to throw around, I'd give your build a try. However, I don't think I'd be able to give up my Complex Armor Repairer. I'd probably have to run Cardreg, Kincat, and Repper for my 3 lows. I'd really like to see how your fit performs in-game. I bet it's awesome to watch As for the patch, I'm really not excited about the changes to the HMG Operation skill. Recoil is not an issue. Bullet spread is. You can mitage 100% of recoil by feathering R1 (firing until the reticle starts to shake, then letting go and re-pressing R1 super fast resets the recoil buildup). I am, however, rather interested in reload skills. They've been pretty useless up until now, but with the reduced SP cost and increased bonus, you should be able to lower your 8 second reload to something like 5 seconds. Could be interesting. Sorry to take this thread away from its original purpose, but I just can't stop myself once I start talking Heavy
No problem Bears; it's awesome to see where these conversations can go. I'm also really interested in ATMESON's build and would love to try it out. If only I didn't need to invest in my PG skill... |
GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
121
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 16:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Damus Trifarn wrote:Bears Beets wrote:GET ATMESON, you make a good point. If I had the SP to throw around, I'd give your build a try. However, I don't think I'd be able to give up my Complex Armor Repairer. I'd probably have to run Cardreg, Kincat, and Repper for my 3 lows. I'd really like to see how your fit performs in-game. I bet it's awesome to watch As for the patch, I'm really not excited about the changes to the HMG Operation skill. Recoil is not an issue. Bullet spread is. You can mitage 100% of recoil by feathering R1 (firing until the reticle starts to shake, then letting go and re-pressing R1 super fast resets the recoil buildup). I am, however, rather interested in reload skills. They've been pretty useless up until now, but with the reduced SP cost and increased bonus, you should be able to lower your 8 second reload to something like 5 seconds. Could be interesting. Sorry to take this thread away from its original purpose, but I just can't stop myself once I start talking Heavy No problem Bears; it's awesome to see where these conversations can go. I'm also really interested in ATMESON's build and would love to try it out. If only I didn't need to invest in my PG skill...
All it takes is PG lvl 3. If you use my build just remember who help you got the idea from :) |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
28
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Posted - 2013.09.03 22:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
While the fitting is certainly interesting, and plays well to a Basic suits strengths, I'll be sticking to my high eHP fat suit. It lets me do my job better in my squad. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
33
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
GET ATMESON wrote:Damus Trifarn wrote:Bears Beets wrote:GET ATMESON, you make a good point. If I had the SP to throw around, I'd give your build a try. However, I don't think I'd be able to give up my Complex Armor Repairer. I'd probably have to run Cardreg, Kincat, and Repper for my 3 lows. I'd really like to see how your fit performs in-game. I bet it's awesome to watch As for the patch, I'm really not excited about the changes to the HMG Operation skill. Recoil is not an issue. Bullet spread is. You can mitage 100% of recoil by feathering R1 (firing until the reticle starts to shake, then letting go and re-pressing R1 super fast resets the recoil buildup). I am, however, rather interested in reload skills. They've been pretty useless up until now, but with the reduced SP cost and increased bonus, you should be able to lower your 8 second reload to something like 5 seconds. Could be interesting. Sorry to take this thread away from its original purpose, but I just can't stop myself once I start talking Heavy No problem Bears; it's awesome to see where these conversations can go. I'm also really interested in ATMESON's build and would love to try it out. If only I didn't need to invest in my PG skill... All it takes is PG lvl 3. If you use my build just remember who help you got the idea from :)
That's exactly what it's gonna take for me to put 2 complex armor repairers (for now I can only use one). Then I've got all my proto modules equipped!
I can't wait to see all the combinations that will come up when the other variants come out; the variety in builds already is astounding.
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GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
127
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 02:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:While the fitting is certainly interesting, and plays well to a Basic suits strengths, I'll be sticking to my high eHP fat suit. It lets me do my job better in my squad.
Well now that the armor pen's have been lowered it actually wont hurt me to much because I had to get a biotic upgrades to lvl 5 just for the Cat's.
1. Moves faster for PC. PC battles are always changing. 2. You'll have the DPS 3. Can run from CORE's (saves my butt alot) 4. I'm not a slow moving target. 5. Every complex plate only adds 5 bullets. An AR shoots 5 in about .6 seconds.
Yes having alot of EHP is nice for your squad to suck points of you but you cant move fast enough to get out of the way of the Core's killing you. When a 3-5 people are shooting at you the armor repair cant keep up if its just 1 logy healing you with the core repair. If you can run from that group of players you can run back to get healed. This prevents the logy or logy's from being killed.
Me personally I didn't like the EHP build. To many nades and with them doing +20% explosive damage to me it was poop(for nice words) I might give it a try again because the armor pen's have been lowered. Might just remove green battery and put a plate there insted |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
32
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Posted - 2013.09.05 00:18:00 -
[57] - Quote
GET ATMESON wrote: 1. Moves faster for PC. PC battles are always changing. 2. You'll have the DPS 3. Can run from CORE's (saves my butt alot) 4. I'm not a slow moving target. 5. Every complex plate only adds 5 bullets. An AR shoots 5 in about .6 seconds.
I don't come across Core Locus grenades all that often, , so that's not been an issue. Even with lower tier Locus Grenades, being killed by those is rare. Then again, I don't go into PC just yet. The most common explosive for me to come across is the Mass Driver, usually the EXO-5, and I don't really struggle with anything except the Freedom when attacked from above (which mobility wouldn't really help me there)
GET ATMESON wrote:Yes having alot of EHP is nice for your squad to suck points of you but you cant move fast enough to get out of the way of the Core's killing you. When a 3-5 people are shooting at you the armor repair cant keep up if its just 1 logy healing you with the core repair. If you can run from that group of players you can run back to get healed. This prevents the logy or logy's from being killed.
Me personally I didn't like the EHP build. To many nades and with them doing +20% explosive damage to me it was poop(for nice words) I might give it a try again because the armor pen's have been lowered. Might just remove green battery and put a plate there insted
High eHP lets me hold down a point in Skirmish with minimal back-up. Logi support is great, especially with the Core Focused Rep Tool, but I've done well without it. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
33
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Posted - 2013.09.07 11:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
Been testing the 'new' Plates on my Heavy and my Alt's Logi suits and I have to say, the difference in speed is very noticeable.
I'd still recommend a Ferroscale Plate for anyone looking to maintain their mobility while getting a little more HP, since the speed drop might mean more to you than to me. |
Bears Beets
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
890
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 12:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Been testing the 'new' Plates on my Heavy and my Alt's Logi suits and I have to say, the difference in speed is very noticeable.
I'd still recommend a Ferroscale Plate for anyone looking to maintain their mobility while getting a little more HP, since the speed drop might mean more to you than to me.
To be honest, if you aren't going to use a plain armor plate, then I probably wouldn't use any at all. Even a complex Ferroscale plate will only give you 66 armor. That's about 2 militia AR bullets (without damage mods). At that rate, it might be more worth your SP, CPU, and PG to fit something like a Cardiac Regulator, Armor Repairer, or maybe even a Shield Regulator. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
33
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 12:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bears Beets wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Been testing the 'new' Plates on my Heavy and my Alt's Logi suits and I have to say, the difference in speed is very noticeable.
I'd still recommend a Ferroscale Plate for anyone looking to maintain their mobility while getting a little more HP, since the speed drop might mean more to you than to me. To be honest, if you aren't going to use a plain armor plate, then I probably wouldn't use any at all. Even a complex Ferroscale plate will only give you 66 armor. That's about 2 militia AR bullets (without damage mods). At that rate, it might be more worth your SP, CPU, and PG to fit something like a Cardiac Regulator, Armor Repairer, or maybe even a Shield Regulator.
75HP, following the buff, not counting skill bonus. Complex Reactives give you 60HP and a 2HP regen for about the same as a Ferroscale, but have a 1% speed drop. |
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