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Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
150
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
King Kobrah wrote:Give up free kills? You're out of your mind op. yeah dont you realize ccp kicked em all out of the scrub academy just so we could sink our teeth into em. besides the faster they rage quit and delete dust the faster the pubs get back to their normal pace |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2447
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Players are never going to get better unless they face others doing their best, and continually seeking more challenging opponents. Taking it easy on others, regardless of gear is doing them a disservice by teaching them bad habits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs
As the video says, there is a difference between Difficult and Punishing. New players don't have the skills and tools they need when they're being thrown into the public matches at 400 WP. It's not "good or bad habits" it's the accessibility and ease of execution - there's no barrier between an Assault - Frontline and a Prototype Assault with a Duvolle Assault Rifle. The only way the new player can win that fight is by sheer luck, there's no tools that he can just pick up to make a sizable defense that is going to win against a higher Tier.
And that's not even taking into account skills affecting things like Damage, Weapon Dispersion/Recoil, Reload time, etc.
I hardly think that not shooting at a new player until they fire first teaches them bad habits - what the hell is he going to learn from that that could even remotely be sized as bad? Not walking out of the red line? |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2447
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:(I was a sniper toward the end of the match so I could see this in the information panel on the bottom left) How about instead of being a ***** you lead from the front as an example of how to win a match, so many domination's get to 1/4 shield dmg on the mcc and vets like you lead the charge on sitting back in the redline and sniping instead of getting into the fray and dropping uplinks where the nublets can spawn and fight on.
Lmfao - you obviously have never played a match with me and seen my usual fittings.
But what's even worse is despite making an assumption (a terrible one at that) you didn't even read the post to see that we won because the entire ENEMY team was new players. There was no "sitting back in the redline and sniping" it was sniping from the front line of the objective.
Don't post unless you're actually going to read the thread. |
Beld Errmon
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
776
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Posted - 2013.08.11 11:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
If you run around with a sniper rifle i'd probably sneer in your direction and forget you exist a few seconds later, only good sniper is one on comms doing anti AV overwatch for my tank or ADS. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2447
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:If you run around with a sniper rifle i'd probably sneer in your direction and forget you exist a few seconds later, only good sniper is one on comms doing anti AV overwatch for my tank or ADS.
Entirely opinionated. A sniper who's worth his salt can remove threats before they're a threat to begin with and communicate with his team beyond just a "anti-AV overwatch" scenario.
A good sniper puts himself in a position that is not illuminating to an enemy presence (on top of a roof, as an example) where he can dispatch the higher threat in the area and inform his team of enemy locations/fluctuations in tactic. A good sniper can tell his team, with as few words as possible, what the enemy is about to do so that they can make a pre-emptive strike or counter attack.
A BAD sniper is a sniper who throws himself to the nearest rooftop, gives away his position with missed shots and has no communication what-so-ever. At that point he's just another guy with a gun and no discipline behind it.
Again - you assume you know a player that you've never played with. I train my corp-mates on how to be an effective sniper because I learned from the Rangers. |
S Park Finner
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
206
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:dday3six wrote:Players are never going to get better unless they face others doing their best, and continually seeking more challenging opponents. Taking it easy on others, regardless of gear is doing them a disservice by teaching them bad habits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKsAs the video says, there is a difference between Difficult and Punishing. New players don't have the skills and tools they need when they're being thrown into the public matches at 400 WP. It's not "good or bad habits" it's the accessibility and ease of execution - there's no barrier between an Assault - Frontline and a Prototype Assault with a Duvolle Assault Rifle. The only way the new player can win that fight is by sheer luck, there's no tools that he can just pick up to make a sizable defense that is going to win against a higher Tier. And that's not even taking into account skills affecting things like Damage, Weapon Dispersion/Recoil, Reload time, etc. I hardly think that not shooting at a new player until they fire first teaches them bad habits - what the hell is he going to learn from that that could even remotely be sized as bad? Not walking out of the red line? Edit: In the video, this quote says it best: "Don't ignore difficult curve. Just because a game is difficult doesn't mean that it's difficulty can just fluctuate wildly all over the place, have huge spikes or be unreasonably difficult up front." Later: "You don't want to set something before them that causes them to walk away because they hit a challenge which is too tough too early." Another important video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w There's evidence that overcoming a series of small challenges of increasing difficulty is the most effective way to build both skill and confidence. Increasingly difficult sports leagues as children get older is an institutionalized example. DUST 514 doesn't have the player base -- and may lack the instrumentation -- to create that kind of levelling. Going easy on less skilled players, however, might help.
Another possibility is deliberately inviting new players -- even in pick-up games -- into a squad to help them along and protect them a bit. It has lots of benefits, won't slow you down too much and lets you beat the snot out of people while feeling you are helping out the new guys. It supports your recruiting as well and isn't limited to just elite players -- anyone can help out a less experienced player.
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2447
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
S Park Finner wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:dday3six wrote:Players are never going to get better unless they face others doing their best, and continually seeking more challenging opponents. Taking it easy on others, regardless of gear is doing them a disservice by teaching them bad habits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKsAs the video says, there is a difference between Difficult and Punishing. New players don't have the skills and tools they need when they're being thrown into the public matches at 400 WP. It's not "good or bad habits" it's the accessibility and ease of execution - there's no barrier between an Assault - Frontline and a Prototype Assault with a Duvolle Assault Rifle. The only way the new player can win that fight is by sheer luck, there's no tools that he can just pick up to make a sizable defense that is going to win against a higher Tier. And that's not even taking into account skills affecting things like Damage, Weapon Dispersion/Recoil, Reload time, etc. I hardly think that not shooting at a new player until they fire first teaches them bad habits - what the hell is he going to learn from that that could even remotely be sized as bad? Not walking out of the red line? Edit: In the video, this quote says it best: "Don't ignore difficult curve. Just because a game is difficult doesn't mean that it's difficulty can just fluctuate wildly all over the place, have huge spikes or be unreasonably difficult up front." Later: "You don't want to set something before them that causes them to walk away because they hit a challenge which is too tough too early." Another important video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w There's evidence that overcoming a series of small challenges of increasing difficulty is the most effective way to build both skill and confidence. Increasingly difficult sports leagues as children get older is an institutionalized example. DUST 514 doesn't have the player base -- and may lack the instrumentation -- to create that kind of levelling. Going easy on less skilled players, however, might help. Another possibility is deliberately inviting new players -- even in pick-up games -- into a squad to help them along and protect them a bit. It has lots of benefits, won't slow you down too much and lets you beat the snot out of people while feeling you are helping out the new guys. It supports your recruiting as well and isn't limited to just elite players -- anyone can help out a less experienced player.
I'd be totally down for it if there was a system in which I could label myself as a "mentor" and help guide them through the process like how **** poor of a decision Armor Tanking is in it's current iteration.
Unfortunately the only way to do this, apart from knowing the poor sod is to put yourself out there on the forums and sort of hope that new players come around to actually viewing the thing after getting absolutely decimated in pub stomps.
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Jade Hasegawa
Intrepidus XI EoN.
40
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
I would do that but anyone and eve1 fores at me anyways so I fire back, but as a rule I tend to look for adv or proto guys anyways as I like the challenge (one of these days I will kill 13ear) but if someone in miltia gets in my way, they go down, not like its costing them ISK |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2447
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jade Hasegawa wrote:I would do that but anyone and eve1 fores at me anyways so I fire back, but as a rule I tend to look for adv or proto guys anyways as I like the challenge (one of these days I will kill 13ear) but if someone in miltia gets in my way, they go down, not like its costing them ISK
Not talking about Militia - Militia is free game as far as I'm concerned but I'm not firing first on Starter fits. Unsporting and it's just killing the PCU in this game. |
StubbyDucky
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
348
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
LOL if CCP were not scrub DEVs and knew how to do matchmaking this thread would never have even been started. |
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
484
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Posted - 2013.08.11 12:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
You'll probably see me in Starter Fits. Please shoot. Please. |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
182
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Posted - 2013.08.11 21:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:dday3six wrote:Players are never going to get better unless they face others doing their best, and continually seeking more challenging opponents. Taking it easy on others, regardless of gear is doing them a disservice by teaching them bad habits. I hardly think that not shooting at a new player until they fire first teaches them bad habits - what the hell is he going to learn from that that could even remotely be sized as bad? Not walking out of the red line?
I cut out the EC crap, cause that's all it is pretentious crap.
If you want to help new players squad with and inform them. Not shooting at them until first fired upon, creates disconnect as to why. They could have been running down the middle of the road in the complete open, and if no one ever fired on them they might start to think it was a good idea. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2452
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Posted - 2013.08.11 22:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:dday3six wrote:Players are never going to get better unless they face others doing their best, and continually seeking more challenging opponents. Taking it easy on others, regardless of gear is doing them a disservice by teaching them bad habits. I hardly think that not shooting at a new player until they fire first teaches them bad habits - what the hell is he going to learn from that that could even remotely be sized as bad? Not walking out of the red line? I cut out the EC crap, cause that's all it is pretentious crap.If you want to help new players squad with and inform them. Not shooting at them until first fired upon, creates disconnect as to why. They could have been running down the middle of the road in the complete open, and if no one ever fired on them they might start to think it was a good idea.
I'd rather that than them thinking that if they want to be competitive they have to AFK the MCC or stay in the Red line and snipe the entire match. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2927
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Posted - 2013.08.11 22:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
What's wrong with starter fits? 100% profit.
I wouldn't consider what we have to be tiers, since more powerful suits, modules, and weapons cost more. You just need to find the sweet-spot that causes you to profit. No point in getting 300,000 ISK in a battle if you lost 275,000 worth of gear. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2453
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Posted - 2013.08.11 22:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:What's wrong with starter fits? 100% profit.
I wouldn't consider what we have to be tiers, since more powerful suits, modules, and weapons cost more. You just need to find the sweet-spot that causes you to profit. No point in getting 300,000 ISK in a battle if you lost 275,000 worth of gear.
Starter Fits are usually a sure sign of a new player who just left the Instant Battle Academy after one game due to the 400 WP requirement for leaving.
Segregation of new players is usually bad but considering that there's no tools for new players to remain competitive against veterans it's a major issue. They need to be segregated so that they can gain enough SP to at least have some kind of survivability option over other players - be it defensive skills/modules or offensive skills/modules.
It doesn't make any sense that to get a standard weapon/dropsuit you have to invest hundreds of thousands of SP when there are so many necessary skills and modules to make a difference. A new player has effectively 50% less EHP, less fitting capabilities due to resources (electronics/engineering skills) and less damage application when compared to someone with say, 15,000,000 SP.
There's no such thing as "bad habits" when there is such an extreme gap between new players and veterans. My corporation exercises restraint when doing skirmish matches in pub/faction warfare to leaving the enemy with at least one objective because honestly we don't learn a damn thing when camping the red line. It's just not fun sitting on the red line and making easy kills when you could work on tactics for pre-emptive strikes against the enemy's movement.
Suffice to say, the only thing killing a new player does as a veteran is just makes you feel like a bad ass when you don't deserve the feeling - anyone can kill another player when they have more offensive/defensive capabilities. Now, if you can red line an entire team of Proto-geared players, it's a completely different story, but we're not discussing that. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
Rebel Raiders Inc.
870
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 22:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
as for killing noobs, it depends on their aggression level towards me but if they're going to hang back and snipe then those are who i hunt down with F-84 active vehcile scanner because i have no sympathy when it comes to MDing a sniper reguardless. these days i mostly drive around my LLAV drunk. if they're one of those over aggressive noobs who wants to pour clip after futile clip of AR into my LLAV then i will lead them away from the other reds and kill them in seclusion. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
Rebel Raiders Inc.
870
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 22:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:dday3six wrote:Players are never going to get better unless they face others doing their best, and continually seeking more challenging opponents. Taking it easy on others, regardless of gear is doing them a disservice by teaching them bad habits. I hardly think that not shooting at a new player until they fire first teaches them bad habits - what the hell is he going to learn from that that could even remotely be sized as bad? Not walking out of the red line? I cut out the EC crap, cause that's all it is pretentious crap.If you want to help new players squad with and inform them. Not shooting at them until first fired upon, creates disconnect as to why. They could have been running down the middle of the road in the complete open, and if no one ever fired on them they might start to think it was a good idea.
a lot of them act all stuck up if you don't run AR. they also bicth about vehicles even when your trying to offer their Heavy ass a ride. they only like to ride on the Bandwagon of the Month which is currently an anti-MD/anti-vehcile outlook that they pick up in local chat. so a lot of them deserve to die due to their own stubborness/stupidity. if you can actually weather their comms chatter than i salute you. |
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