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KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1013
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its just silly how explosive heavy this game has become. I for one will normally get 10+ nade kills in a game, and thats while using them as intended, coocking and clearing out groups or as a prelude to an AR attack. I normally throw 1 nade at a time, I rarely just stand in a position and spam them.
The problem lies in the constant spam, many will throw their 3 nades before even thinking about using a gun. I have a suggestion for a nerf, perhaps a model for nerfing that will work fine for other weapons aswell.
Instead of fiddling with the stats, simply move them all one tier up.
- Core locus nade and Allotek Flux nades will become officer nades - The M1 will be the new proto nade and this goes for the lvl 3 flux nade aswell. - They will need to make a new set of nades either as a weaker lvl 1 nade or as a new lvl 3 nade with stats inbetween the current lvl 1 and lvl 3 nades.
In any case, numbers should be reduced from carrying 3 down to carrying 2.
I still want the nades to be an important part of the game, but not quite as dominant as they are today....
This sort of nerfing could be a way of doing it in the future. Just imagine if they did the same with the lasers, given the Viziam officer staus and moved the lvl 3 up to be a lvl 5, would anyone have complained about that? And same sort of goes for the current Mass drivers, lift them all up a tier and I suspect most of the QQ would dissapear. This goes for both the users and the ones receiving it.
- I have no idea about the current relation between AV-nades and vehicles so I really don't have much input on it....
Am I alone in this? Or do you feel the same as I and that tweaking down the various explosive weapons would be a step in making it a more fun game?
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
331
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Posted - 2013.08.06 08:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I actually kinda like the idea +1 |
Import Beercase
Seraphim Auxiliaries
32
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Posted - 2013.08.06 09:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 I would really like if this would happen. |
Bendtner92
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
832
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Posted - 2013.08.06 09:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've been saying for ages that nades do too much damage.
Locus nades should be 300/400/500 damage across the Standard/Advanced/Prototype tiers. |
Nalhe Saldana
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
118
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dust is supposed to be a high HP shooter but a I need 2 shield extenders and 3 plates on my gallente proto suit to barely be able to survive a single grenade. This is silly and needs a nerf. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
807
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1016
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Posted - 2013.08.06 10:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh
Why not? |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
808
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not?
Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that |
Gauder Berwyck
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
294
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that
And your point is...?
EVE has officer modules, why couldn't any weapon in Dust have an officer variant? |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
416
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that Why isn't it a support weapon? Grenades are meant to be used for breaching areas actually. If you got people all grouped up in one area, grenades are great to use to either push them back or to kill them. Just wish they had smoke grenades (T_T). |
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KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1021
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that
And why is that relevant? |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1021
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Azura Sakura wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that Why isn't it a support weapon? Grenades are meant to be used for breaching areas actually. If you got people all grouped up in one area, grenades are great to use to either push them back or to kill them. Just wish they had smoke grenades (T_T).
That would probably lead to a whole lot of rendering and performance issues, I'd rather wait until PS4. |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
416
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Azura Sakura wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that Why isn't it a support weapon? Grenades are meant to be used for breaching areas actually. If you got people all grouped up in one area, grenades are great to use to either push them back or to kill them. Just wish they had smoke grenades (T_T). That would probably lead to a whole lot of rendering and performance issues, I'd rather wait until PS4. Oh, well that sucks. |
Sha Kharn Clone
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
1621
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Is not a bad idea. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
1124
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP wrote: tiers...blablabla...shift tiers here, shift tiers there... tiers tiers tiers tears tiers...
Or we could remove tiers completely. When everyone has the same grenade and they only vary sideways based on variants instead of upwards based on overall performance,
and when everyone has the same noob tube which has a standard item and only variants instead of tiers,
then balancing items would be so much easier. If a FotM arises, it can be balanced so much more easily. Instead of nerfing all flaylock pistols, or all Caldari Logistics suits, there will only be single items which stand out as OP because there aren't tiers of that same item, only variants.
Similar to champions in League of Legends. If we take a look at the patch notes, each item and champion have their unique stats. Nerfs and buffs don't go to whole groups of items/champs, but are dispensed individually because each item/champ is unique. That's what we need here. |
Mirataf
WARRIORS 1NC
20
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 to OP |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1023
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Posted - 2013.08.06 11:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:OP wrote: tiers...blablabla...shift tiers here, shift tiers there... tiers tiers tiers tears tiers...
Or we could remove tiers completely. When everyone has the same grenade and they only vary sideways based on variants instead of upwards based on overall performance, and when everyone has the same noob tube which has a standard item and only variants instead of tiers, then balancing items would be so much easier. If a FotM arises, it can be balanced so much more easily. Instead of nerfing all flaylock pistols, or all Caldari Logistics suits, there will only be single items which stand out as OP because there aren't tiers of that same item, only variants. Similar to champions in League of Legends. If we take a look at the patch notes, each item and champion have their unique stats. Nerfs and buffs don't go to whole groups of items/champs, but are dispensed individually because each item/champ is unique. That's what we need here.
So we'll just dissregard the whole leveling system more or less?
Would speccing into nades then cost some thousand skillpoints or the whole 1.5 M something?
We have a tier based system for everything in this game, removing it would defeat the purpose of the grind. (Game.) |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
476
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 11:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
One million ways to die, choose one. We have to stop asking for nerfs for every single thing we die by. If you keep nerfing everything, we might as well have a paperball fight. Any adversity can be beaten, numerous or singular. |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1023
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 11:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:One million ways to die, choose one. We have to stop asking for nerfs for every single thing we die by. If you keep nerfing everything, we might as well have a paperball fight. Any adversity can be beaten, numerous or singular.
Except in this case I ask for a nerf cause I keep killing everyone with these nades. They are so powerful that the AR is considered a sidearm in many situations. I am trying to influence so that we may get a better game, I'm not here because of any form of butthurt. Keeping the nades as they are will let me continue to dominate with them, I like it, but that doesn't make it right.
And I'd like to see what counter you have when one of my Core nades blow up in your face. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
1124
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:OP wrote: tiers...blablabla...shift tiers here, shift tiers there... tiers tiers tiers tears tiers...
Or we could remove tiers completely. When everyone has the same grenade and they only vary sideways based on variants instead of upwards based on overall performance, and when everyone has the same noob tube which has a standard item and only variants instead of tiers, then balancing items would be so much easier. If a FotM arises, it can be balanced so much more easily. Instead of nerfing all flaylock pistols, or all Caldari Logistics suits, there will only be single items which stand out as OP because there aren't tiers of that same item, only variants. Similar to champions in League of Legends. If we take a look at the patch notes, each item and champion have their unique stats. Nerfs and buffs don't go to whole groups of items/champs, but are dispensed individually because each item/champ is unique. That's what we need here. So we'll just dissregard the whole leveling system more or less? Would speccing into nades then cost some thousand skillpoints or the whole 1.5 M something? We have a tier based system for everything in this game, removing it would defeat the purpose of the grind. (Game.)
Well the game is grinding to a halt at the moment.
Levelling system? You mean that gap between vets and newbies? You mean that problem that has people crying for respecs every time CCP makes a change to a popular (fotm) item? You mean that crippling system that forces people to play a game which becomes a chore because it isn't fun anymore? If it was still fun there would be much, much less activity here on the forums.
Speccing into nades would cost the same as it would now. Speccing into everything costs the same as it would now.
That's the point. Because CCP can introduce new content, dozens of new items, and put them under the same category, without creating massive SP sinks.
And when there are hundreds of items all of the same tier, what starts to matter is ISK. The vets have more ISK, the newbies don't. The vets can use this ISK to do different things. Donate to their corporation, for example, to expand.
Newberries will set their sights on attainable items. A tank for their next battle, a gun for their next death. Those who dedicate themselves will be rewarded by planetary conquest, domination of districts, the ability to purchase clones, control of player markets.
These features aren't possible or at least will constantly be shoved into the 'roadmap' with the problem of SP hanging over us.
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KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1023
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:KingBabar wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:OP wrote: tiers...blablabla...shift tiers here, shift tiers there... tiers tiers tiers tears tiers...
Or we could remove tiers completely. When everyone has the same grenade and they only vary sideways based on variants instead of upwards based on overall performance, and when everyone has the same noob tube which has a standard item and only variants instead of tiers, then balancing items would be so much easier. If a FotM arises, it can be balanced so much more easily. Instead of nerfing all flaylock pistols, or all Caldari Logistics suits, there will only be single items which stand out as OP because there aren't tiers of that same item, only variants. Similar to champions in League of Legends. If we take a look at the patch notes, each item and champion have their unique stats. Nerfs and buffs don't go to whole groups of items/champs, but are dispensed individually because each item/champ is unique. That's what we need here. So we'll just dissregard the whole leveling system more or less? Would speccing into nades then cost some thousand skillpoints or the whole 1.5 M something? We have a tier based system for everything in this game, removing it would defeat the purpose of the grind. (Game.) Well the game is grinding to a halt at the moment. Levelling system? You mean that gap between vets and newbies? You mean that problem that has people crying for respecs every time CCP makes a change to a popular (fotm) item? You mean that crippling system that forces people to play a game which becomes a chore because it isn't fun anymore? If it was still fun there would be much, much less activity here on the forums. Speccing into nades would cost the same as it would now. Speccing into everything costs the same as it would now. That's the point. Because CCP can introduce new content, dozens of new items, and put them under the same category, without creating massive SP sinks. And when there are hundreds of items all of the same tier, what starts to matter is ISK. The vets have more ISK, the newbies don't. The vets can use this ISK to do different things. Donate to their corporation, for example, to expand. Newberries will set their sights on attainable items. A tank for their next battle, a gun for their next death. Those who dedicate themselves will be rewarded by planetary conquest, domination of districts, the ability to purchase clones, control of player markets. These features aren't possible or at least will constantly be shoved into the 'roadmap' with the problem of SP hanging over us.
You guys suggest a radical change to the entire game's structure. Its sort of off the topic at hand....
I too have ideas such as these, we should have bunkers that are destroyable and repairable with a turret on the top instead of CRUs and uplinks, they should be in lines of 4 and we should blow them up before being able to take the objectives further in on the map.....
Its not that I really dissagree with you, but what you suggest is such a huge change to the entire game, this is probably not the thread for that kind of discussion.
To have any sort of meaningfull discussion its best to keep within whats considered a reasonable tweak, not flipping around the entire tier and leveling mechanic, that is shooting for the moon, nothing constructive will come from it....
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
808
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that And why is that relevant?
Because officer atm in DUST is currently primary weapons
Anyways at least infantry gets officer weapons vehicles have no officer anything |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1023
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:KingBabar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If that includes AV nades so they carry less im all for it but no way should any nades become officer weapons tbh Why not? Because they are not primary weapons, support weapons at that And why is that relevant? Because officer atm in DUST is currently primary weapons Anyways at least infantry gets officer weapons vehicles have no officer anything
Not entirely true, we have officer sidearms for starters.
And you've yet to bring in an actual reason, other than "this is how it is atm".
Why would making the top tier nades officer level be such a bad idea? |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
808
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:
Not entirely true, we have officer sidearms for starters.
And you've yet to bring in an actual reason, other than "this is how it is atm".
Why would making the top tier nades officer level be such a bad idea?
AV nades officer level to go with officer level FG against standard all basic vehicle/mods except proto turret, might aswell add in officer OP swarms just to take the **** |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
805
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's a god damn grenade ffs!!!!
any day of the week I would much rather get shot in the gut with an assault rifle than hold a grenade to my chest..
Do you want it to shoot confetti everywhere?
I mean, I hate them when they kill me.. I have a proto gal logi that can't do a single thing about it when one lands at my feet. But I understand it is a grenade.. most other games I play, a grenade usually = death... just in those other games you could not SPAM them.. so there is the problem.. being able to spam them. Fix refill mechanics on nades.. they got timers on other mechanics in the game such as repairing wp. So why not make it to where you can only refill nades every 2 minutes or something. Degrading their dmg values will just make them pointless, and you will see way more flux spam with mass drivers. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
1125
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
KingBabar wrote: To have any sort of meaningfull discussion its best to keep within whats considered a reasonable tweak, not flipping around the entire tier and leveling mechanic, that is shooting for the moon, nothing constructive will come from it....
What's the difference between 5 years of 'reasonable tweaks' and 2.5 years of trying a new system and 2.5 years of going back to the old system with slight changes based on what we learned from the new system?
What has CCP got to lose from trying something radical, if the idea has merit? Like it or not, we're still in beta. That's why there's a vehicle overhaul coming up in the following months. That's why all racial variants of all suits haven't been introduced. That's why there are a handful of maps which supposedly every district in New Eden geographically conforms to.
I worry they underestimate the impatience of today's age. Instant gratification or nothing. |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
1023
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:It's a god damn grenade ffs!!!!
any day of the week I would much rather get shot in the gut with an assault rifle than hold a grenade to my chest..
Do you want it to shoot confetti everywhere?
I mean, I hate them when they kill me.. I have a proto gal logi that can't do a single thing about it when one lands at my feet. But I understand it is a grenade.. most other games I play, a grenade usually = death... just in those other games you could not SPAM them.. so there is the problem.. being able to spam them. Fix refill mechanics on nades.. they got timers on other mechanics in the game such as repairing wp. So why not make it to where you can only refill nades every 2 minutes or something. Degrading their dmg values will just make them pointless, and you will see way more flux spam with mass drivers.
First off, I suggest both types gets an equal nerf.
The M1 nades are more than potent enough to take out any non-heavy suit in the game with a single good hit, they will be far from pointless... |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers EoN.
815
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
IF you wanna nerf Locus nades than you should also nerf the FLUX nades too. I say 150-250-400 dmg also only give them 2. Not fair to just nerf the armor killers and leave the shield killers nice and strong.
So if this is a legit discussion Flux can be nerfed hard too. |
gbh08
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:
just in those other games you could not SPAM them.. so there is the problem.. being able to spam them. Fix refill mechanics on nades.. they got timers on other mechanics in the game such as repairing wp. So why not make it to where you can only refill nades every 2 minutes or something. Degrading their dmg values will just make them pointless, and you will see way more flux spam with mass drivers.
I hate the nade spam, This would be my fix for it also ^
2 max nades carried, and either no refill at all from a hive, or refill be on a timer of some kind
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
810
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 13:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
gbh08 wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:
just in those other games you could not SPAM them.. so there is the problem.. being able to spam them. Fix refill mechanics on nades.. they got timers on other mechanics in the game such as repairing wp. So why not make it to where you can only refill nades every 2 minutes or something. Degrading their dmg values will just make them pointless, and you will see way more flux spam with mass drivers.
I hate the nade spam, This would be my fix for it also ^ 2 max nades carried, and either no refill at all from a hive, or refill be on a timer of some kind
How about 2 nades only
But only refilled at a supply depot, nanohives are for ammo only not nades |
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