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2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The first thing I thought when I heard no-sp cap is. Hey how can I pay someone to grind for me? Or can I make a Logi bot to do this "sp grind" for me.
*A link for a good ref/source material at the bottom of post.
I think a NO-SP cap if done wrong will create a huge market for power leveling and boting programs both paying to level accounts and selling prebuilt accounts to players. I don't want to see that happen so I'm giving you this information and why this would ultimately hurt CCP and dust game development.
Now I'm not against a no-sp cap but I want to explain some of the pitfalls of such a system and how such problems can be prevented.
Currently you can pay a Chinese power leveler about 0.10$ us to 3.00 dollars US per hour for power leveling in most games, depends on the game and the farmer.
If a farmer power levels a character for a dust player that is money going to china instead of CCP, technically that is money CCP is losing that it could use to pay its game developers and make the game bigger and better faster. If someone buys a account from China that is booster money that CCP will never most likely see because the farmer is cheaper then the booster
The game will also be flooded with bots making grind accounts to sell.
Now your thinking "but they are in china they cant play over in my region!" well yes they can they use a paid proxy to do it. And dust has not regional requirement on its software either so even if you added one they would just port forward.
No lifers will be pissed because people are bot-ing, CCP will miss out on cash from its playerbase that it could use for profit and dust development. no one wins. Game still ends up being pay to win. Instead its pay to grind.
So i have explained why a no sp cap can lead to problems. How can we stop that?
How to prevent if you go no-cap
Let players buy SP strait from CCP. They can cut out the Chinese farmers middleman from the game before it starts and bots wont be worthwhile making and developing in the first place. Sure its not great that players can just buy SP, but think about it,.... they can do that anyway right? They just hire a chump to grind for them and play when they want. So its always going to be pay to win.
Anyway thats my thoughts on NO-Cap sp. I make good money and so do my friends, and Im sure they will pay to have someone level their dust chars or just buy a prebuilt one with 10mil sp or something.
Personally I hate hate hate botting and farmers and giving money to china I would rather give to CCP. But I cant grind all day, so that leaves me with limited options and I don't like to fall behind.
I have played MMO's before so I can see the writing on the wall.
Please CCP at least take notice of this post and do something to plan accordingly! I love this game because its about skill and teamwork not XP grind!
*Ref info http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17lootfarmers-t.html?ex=1339732800&en=1676d344608cb590&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&_r=0
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2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
*SAVED |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Didnt know about this one. Thanks for the tip though. Now I dont mind CCP removing the cap. I will just pay someone in China to level up my character.
Edit: I just realized that I have have 3 people in china level up all my 3 alts.
Best post EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Mr Zitro
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
417
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lol this sounds like an troll |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
168
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Right from under the Troll bridge.
There is nothing in the game worth a bot or a Chinese miner. Seriously, nothing. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr Zitro wrote:Lol this sounds like an troll
Hey I don't like it anymore then anyone else. But money talks and bullshit walks.
Way of the world my friend. |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
200
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is a side of the argument I was keeping as an ace in the hold, but now that its out there early, its no less true. Good post. |
BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
95
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Didnt know about this one. Thanks for the tip though. Now I dont mind CCP removing the cap. I will just pay someone in China to level up my character. Edit: I just realized that I have have 3 people in china level up all my 3 alts. Best post EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL You pay to win you tryhard! |
Mr Zitro
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
417
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lmao sounds like dooms day prophecies! |
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
I call bullshit on this. A bot wont be able to compensate for the changing situations of a fps and as such id say it would actually be a hinderens. Chinese power players hell chinese arnt even alowed to see google on the interneti doubt they can sell there services to level up players in games that are most probally still cut off from china. Eve is in china has a seperate server for them last I heard no dust for them yet |
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2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
develsgun wrote:I call bullshit on this. A bot wont be able to compensate for the changing situations of a fps and as such id say it would actually be a hinderens. Chinese power players hell chinese arnt even alowed to see google on the interneti doubt they can sell there services to level up players in games that are most probally still cut off from china. Eve is in china has a seperate server for them last I heard no dust for them yet
do you even read?
I explained how its done in plain text and sourced a NY times article detailing the practice of power leveling in china. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Hey I don't like it anymore then anyone else. But money talks and bullshit walks.
Way of the world my friend.
This +1.
I am gonna put an add in craigslist and see how many people would love to level up my character.
You are a genious my friend.
Edit: Gonna go change my vote to remove the SP Cap. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:] LOL You pay to win you tryhard!
Meh! I got nothing better to do with my money. This way with no SP cap I can get my neighbors son or someone from craigslist while I get laid.
My character gets leveled and I get laid. .
Its a win-win situation for me. This way I can pub stomp everyone in proto gear . |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
200
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
develsgun wrote:I call bullshit on this. A bot wont be able to compensate for the changing situations of a fps and as such id say it would actually be a hinderens. Chinese power players hell chinese arnt even alowed to see google on the interneti doubt they can sell there services to level up players in games that are most probally still cut off from china. Eve is in china has a seperate server for them last I heard no dust for them yet
The way some of these new players I have been playing against over the last 10 months of Closed beta, makes me think an AI would in some cases be an marked improvement... That aside this subject brings light to a huge disparity between subgroups in of the player base and the experience they want to take away from the game. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1899
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mr Zitro wrote:Lmao sounds like dooms day prophecies!
You just want to sit in your tank for 72 hours and be the best there ever was |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Found it
No need for me to login to play games anymore. All I need to do is hire a gamer for $10 an hour! Nice ! |
Mr Zitro
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
417
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mr Zitro wrote:Lmao sounds like dooms day prophecies! You just want to sit in your tank for 72 hours and be the best there ever was I'm the best around! Nothings ever going to nerf me down! Cause I'm the best around nothing's ever going to nerf me down! |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
lol bots are not possible on the PS3 so thats out of the way. And chinese players are only aible to do that on PC not PS3 simply cause PS3's are quite rare there. Main reason for this is that PS3's are expensive and you cant pirate games on it unlike PC's which is very popular in china. So both options are unlikely to happend. |
4447
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
649
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:lol bots are not possible on the PS3 so thats out of the way. And chinese players are only aible to do that on PC not PS3 simply cause PS3's are quite rare there. Main reason for this is that PS3's are expensive and you cant pirate games on it unlike PC's which is very popular in china. So both options are unlikely to happend.
Dark cloud knows because he dos it. |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
200
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:lol bots are not possible on the PS3 so thats out of the way. And chinese players are only aible to do that on PC not PS3 simply cause PS3's are quite rare there. Main reason for this is that PS3's are expensive and you cant pirate games on it unlike PC's which is very popular in china. So both options are unlikely to happend.
it wouldn't take much to buy a conex box of refurbished PS3's and ship it to china where you pay a guy a quarter an hour to manage 10 or 15 consoles... its happened before, were potentially making an opportunity for it to happen again.
Also you grossly over estimate the security of the PS3's firmware. bots are not only possible but they have happened before. and the PS3 is even LESS equipped to detect and deal with third party threats then PC companies whom are ever in the pursuit of said threats to their game. |
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DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
231
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:lol bots are not possible on the PS3 so thats out of the way. And chinese players are only aible to do that on PC not PS3 simply cause PS3's are quite rare there. Main reason for this is that PS3's are expensive and you cant pirate games on it unlike PC's which is very popular in china. So both options are unlikely to happend.
Oh you have so much to learn, bots on PS3 yes very possible. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:lol bots are not possible on the PS3 so thats out of the way. And chinese players are only aible to do that on PC not PS3 simply cause PS3's are quite rare there. Main reason for this is that PS3's are expensive and you cant pirate games on it unlike PC's which is very popular in china. So both options are unlikely to happend.
PS3s are manufactured in china and can be picked up cheap there actually. Also there are aim bots and other things already downloadable for ps3 online games. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Permaban & hardware & ISP ban all botters. On both their EvE & Dust accounts. |
DonRodie
Deep Space Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.01.22 20:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
I say no to no sp cap |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 20:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Permaban & hardware & ISP ban all botters. On both their EvE & Dust accounts.
If blizzard cant stop them using some of those methods that way what makes you think CCP can? plus your forgetting the amount of work CCP staff side man hours that takes. Man hours taken away from developing the game and fixing bugs and running events and making improvements and being involved in the community. its lose lose. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2013.01.22 20:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Blizzard didnt used to do so badly at bannin bots on d2. The Chinese stuff works because it isnt a bot. I know you can just sign up with another account and get bottling again, but the threat needs to be there. IF they have evidence of breach of EULA. I agree, it will detract from development in other areas. Basically, prevention > cure. Universal rolling cap for the win. That way it'll be some months atleast before it's worth paying someone to power level you.
The question is, what happens when you can trade a PLEX for a levelling service in game? |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 20:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Blizzard didnt used to do so badly at bannin bots on d2. The Chinese stuff works because it isnt a bot. I know you can just sign up with another account and get bottling again, but the threat needs to be there. IF they have evidence of breach of EULA. I agree, it will detract from development in other areas. Basically, prevention > cure. Universal rolling cap for the win. That way it'll be some months atleast before it's worth paying someone to power level you.
The question is, what happens when you can trade a PLEX for a levelling service in game?
I agree Prevention is what I am trying to get done here, If we make it unprofitable for bots and farmers from the start they wont start.
That is why a in game way to buy Sp would be better if they do in fact go No-cap. The demand for this service will be as soon as no cap is implemented so make the supply in game, that way the money goes into CCP pockets if its going to go anywhere.
its just something that will materialize if you go no-cap. People will bot and hire power levelers if they want to build sp without grinding. So just put that option to buy SP in game.
You gotta take the world for what it is. |
Seamie Schmoove
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
64
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Posted - 2013.01.22 21:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hang on....Pay a "Chinese Power Leveller" to level up your char! What in the blue hell is goin on? Do people seriously do this? I call mental mental chicken oriental on this malarchy! |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
968
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Posted - 2013.01.22 22:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
The point is to not create incentives for factory farming that you then have to spend great amounts of effort to eradicate.
CCP must have someone on staff who is paid to think of these things, don't they? |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.23 05:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The point is to not create incentives for factory farming that you then have to spend great amounts of effort to eradicate.
CCP must have someone on staff who is paid to think of these things, don't they?
I doubt it. They have only ever made 1 type of MMO progress system, and judging from the rate of development on this FPS they are certainly out of their element.
So I dont think they have the consultants to tell them why farming could become a issue under the new no-cap grind system.
We need to make sure CCP does not create a "grind SP vacuum" for farmers to fill where unmet demand for SP clashes against a supply of people willing to pay for that SP but with no other outlet then to pay a 3rd party for that service.
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