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2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The first thing I thought when I heard no-sp cap is. Hey how can I pay someone to grind for me? Or can I make a Logi bot to do this "sp grind" for me.
*A link for a good ref/source material at the bottom of post.
I think a NO-SP cap if done wrong will create a huge market for power leveling and boting programs both paying to level accounts and selling prebuilt accounts to players. I don't want to see that happen so I'm giving you this information and why this would ultimately hurt CCP and dust game development.
Now I'm not against a no-sp cap but I want to explain some of the pitfalls of such a system and how such problems can be prevented.
Currently you can pay a Chinese power leveler about 0.10$ us to 3.00 dollars US per hour for power leveling in most games, depends on the game and the farmer.
If a farmer power levels a character for a dust player that is money going to china instead of CCP, technically that is money CCP is losing that it could use to pay its game developers and make the game bigger and better faster. If someone buys a account from China that is booster money that CCP will never most likely see because the farmer is cheaper then the booster
The game will also be flooded with bots making grind accounts to sell.
Now your thinking "but they are in china they cant play over in my region!" well yes they can they use a paid proxy to do it. And dust has not regional requirement on its software either so even if you added one they would just port forward.
No lifers will be pissed because people are bot-ing, CCP will miss out on cash from its playerbase that it could use for profit and dust development. no one wins. Game still ends up being pay to win. Instead its pay to grind.
So i have explained why a no sp cap can lead to problems. How can we stop that?
How to prevent if you go no-cap
Let players buy SP strait from CCP. They can cut out the Chinese farmers middleman from the game before it starts and bots wont be worthwhile making and developing in the first place. Sure its not great that players can just buy SP, but think about it,.... they can do that anyway right? They just hire a chump to grind for them and play when they want. So its always going to be pay to win.
Anyway thats my thoughts on NO-Cap sp. I make good money and so do my friends, and Im sure they will pay to have someone level their dust chars or just buy a prebuilt one with 10mil sp or something.
Personally I hate hate hate botting and farmers and giving money to china I would rather give to CCP. But I cant grind all day, so that leaves me with limited options and I don't like to fall behind.
I have played MMO's before so I can see the writing on the wall.
Please CCP at least take notice of this post and do something to plan accordingly! I love this game because its about skill and teamwork not XP grind!
*Ref info http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17lootfarmers-t.html?ex=1339732800&en=1676d344608cb590&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&_r=0
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2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 17:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
*SAVED |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mr Zitro wrote:Lol this sounds like an troll
Hey I don't like it anymore then anyone else. But money talks and bullshit walks.
Way of the world my friend. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 18:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
develsgun wrote:I call bullshit on this. A bot wont be able to compensate for the changing situations of a fps and as such id say it would actually be a hinderens. Chinese power players hell chinese arnt even alowed to see google on the interneti doubt they can sell there services to level up players in games that are most probally still cut off from china. Eve is in china has a seperate server for them last I heard no dust for them yet
do you even read?
I explained how its done in plain text and sourced a NY times article detailing the practice of power leveling in china. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 19:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:lol bots are not possible on the PS3 so thats out of the way. And chinese players are only aible to do that on PC not PS3 simply cause PS3's are quite rare there. Main reason for this is that PS3's are expensive and you cant pirate games on it unlike PC's which is very popular in china. So both options are unlikely to happend.
PS3s are manufactured in china and can be picked up cheap there actually. Also there are aim bots and other things already downloadable for ps3 online games. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.01.22 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Permaban & hardware & ISP ban all botters. On both their EvE & Dust accounts.
If blizzard cant stop them using some of those methods that way what makes you think CCP can? plus your forgetting the amount of work CCP staff side man hours that takes. Man hours taken away from developing the game and fixing bugs and running events and making improvements and being involved in the community. its lose lose. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.22 20:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Blizzard didnt used to do so badly at bannin bots on d2. The Chinese stuff works because it isnt a bot. I know you can just sign up with another account and get bottling again, but the threat needs to be there. IF they have evidence of breach of EULA. I agree, it will detract from development in other areas. Basically, prevention > cure. Universal rolling cap for the win. That way it'll be some months atleast before it's worth paying someone to power level you.
The question is, what happens when you can trade a PLEX for a levelling service in game?
I agree Prevention is what I am trying to get done here, If we make it unprofitable for bots and farmers from the start they wont start.
That is why a in game way to buy Sp would be better if they do in fact go No-cap. The demand for this service will be as soon as no cap is implemented so make the supply in game, that way the money goes into CCP pockets if its going to go anywhere.
its just something that will materialize if you go no-cap. People will bot and hire power levelers if they want to build sp without grinding. So just put that option to buy SP in game.
You gotta take the world for what it is. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.23 05:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The point is to not create incentives for factory farming that you then have to spend great amounts of effort to eradicate.
CCP must have someone on staff who is paid to think of these things, don't they?
I doubt it. They have only ever made 1 type of MMO progress system, and judging from the rate of development on this FPS they are certainly out of their element.
So I dont think they have the consultants to tell them why farming could become a issue under the new no-cap grind system.
We need to make sure CCP does not create a "grind SP vacuum" for farmers to fill where unmet demand for SP clashes against a supply of people willing to pay for that SP but with no other outlet then to pay a 3rd party for that service.
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2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.23 06:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:LOL @ Chinese power levelers. If anybody is stupid enough to give somebody in China (or anybody for that matter) their PSN login details and pay them, I will laugh very hard when they cry to Sony and CCP about their PSN account being hijacked and/or CC charged $400 in PS store purchases. I agree no cap is a very bad idea, but paying people to level your character and bots? This isn't the PC world of gaming, that kind of thing is almost completely unheard of on console games. The worst I have seen is a group of friends sharing one character and each playing a specific time slot so they can essentially play 24/7.
Its unheard of because there was never any reason to do it. Now there is. That is the point of the whole dam thread chief. How many other MMO's on the ps3? This one. EDIT- (factual error - there are in fact 2 or 3 MMO's for the ps3 at this time) -not many
Also you can just change or /remove or limit credit card purchases from the PSN network to your credit card or cancel your credit card, thus he cant charge your PSN account anything, you can also change allot of your personal information or make a psn/dust account specifically for a power leveler to level. Also you can send him a Copy/Clone of your PS3 harddrive so he would require 0 login information but would be unable to change passwords and do other things. You could either physically send the cloned hard drive or just send a ISO. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.23 07:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:"Let players buy SP strait from CCP. They can cut out the Chinese farmers middleman from the game before it starts and bots wont be worthwhile making and developing in the first place. Sure its not great that players can just buy SP, but think about it,.... they can do that anyway right? They just hire a chump to grind for them and play when they want. So its always going to be pay to win."
This would be good under one condition...SKILLED MATCHMAKING.... this would truly make the game pay to win, by allowing people to just buy SP. Right now you buy passive booster, which is an advatage over others that may not be able to afford them.
If there is no sp cap, or if you are allowed to buy sp, skilled matchmaking has to be put into effect for PUB matches.
I agree we need a proper match making system for players who are good or have large Sp are separated from the Bad players or who have low sp or some sort of combination of both so you can bracket players. |
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2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.23 07:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:How many other MMO's on the ps3? This one. DCUO would like a word with you. And yes, there are power-levellers and account hackers selling high-level DCUO characters illegally. For the most part, though, they're creating and power-levelling characters on their own account then selling it, or hijacking the accounts of people who already have high-level characters. Any option for doing this fills three important criteria that will limit its use: 1. Doesn't give significant advantage. 2. Doesn't help with the practical experience that makes a high-tier character worth paying attention to. 3. Violates both PSN and CCP terms of use and can get your accounts banned.
I disagree with some of what you said, mainly 3. Eve online is probably considered by some a "skill game" (I never played it) but people buy accounts from eve all the time along with buying ISK. what is the current cost of isk on eve? 1 billion for $21.
Sure people cant buy Skill but you can buy head starts or just the ability to do more things thus making you more adaptable on the battlefield to changing threats. No one is saying that you can buy skill what we are saying is that there will be a market for this kind of activity. Also CCP says its illegal? Dam I better send a msg to all those ISK eve websites and let them know, clearly they missed that memo |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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232
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Posted - 2013.01.23 07:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
Its unheard of because there was never any reason to do it. Now there is. That is the point of the whole dam thread chief. How many other MMO's on the ps3? This one.
Also you can just change or /remove or limit credit card purchases from the PSN network to your credit card or cancel your credit card, thus he cant charge your PSN account anything, you can also change allot of your personal information or make a psn/dust account specifically for a power leveler to level. Also you can send him a Copy/Clone of your PS3 harddrive so he would require 0 login information but would be unable to change passwords and do other things. You could either physically send the cloned hard drive or just send a ISO.
Only reasonable thing I could see happening is somebody paying somebody else to level up some random PSN account and character in Dust. Or perhaps somebody selling their own random PSN account that has been leveled. I'll give you that. But I just can't see it happening with any sort of regularity that would warrant serious concern. PC gaming mentality =/= Console gaming mentality. I could be horribly wrong, but I really don't see it being a major issue.
I do and if your horribly wrong its allot worse then if I'm wrong and we put checks and balances in place to prevent it. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.01.23 07:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Firstly, not sure what your point is. My point was that DUST 514 isn't alone as a PS3 MMO, and I provided an example of one that's already released. And second, my mistake, haven't been following the game closely. It went into beta this month. Still, DUST is ahead in a sense because it's already had a year of beta. As I already said though, it doesn't matter which comes out first, DCUO is still out and the fact that there's another PS3 MMO in development as well as DUST only supports the argument I'm making.
Sorry I made a factual error as to the # of mmos on the ps3, I will edit my statement to reflect the factual error. However my point was more to the fact that this is a emerging market on the console so that is why bots and farming has not been as prevalent. But as its market share increases so will the profitability of such actions. Look at Macs and viruses as their market share has increased so have hackers and programers targeting that OS. To say something cant happen because it has not happened yet is foolish.
BTW I am less concerned about bots being made and more about power levelers taking money that CCP should be taking.
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