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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7635
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Define it in your own words, please.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9010
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
LP boosters APEX suits Upcoming MCC nonsense. Any other bullshit CCP plans on doing based off of "Loyalty Rankings"
It's absolutely appalling to what he's doing to this game at first I was incredibly excited for Rattati but this stuff is getting way out of hand and if it goes any further ill have none of this.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Sir Snugglz
Red Star. EoN.
1017
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Define it in your own words, please.
in terms of dust....
While it offers a free to play option, the only way to be on a competitive level or beat strong players in terms of skills, equipment, experience (boosters), etc
pay to win means that when a paying players fights a free to play player, the paying player will win every time. Assuming both players have an equal chance of winning. Simply put, a paying player has some sort of advantage over the free to play player. A playing player will also have more paths to choose from in terms of suits/vehicles when on the battlefield because of the difference in SP.
Another way to look at is, if it was not pay to win, a free to play player and a paying player should ideally have the same lifetime SP and same opportunity to skill into every skill available to them if they earned the same amount of of WP, time spent playing, SP earned. Then, winning player will be based on which path they chose and skill. \
take your pick. lol.
League of legends is a good example of a none pay to win game. Money is mostly spent on champion skins which have no effect on the battlefield. A champion with a skin will not have an advantage over the same champion without a skill.
-Pro AFKing LVL 5
-Luck is just one of my skills
-Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
639
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pay to win=Anything that gives players a competitive edge and cannot be earned through playing the game.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7635
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Define it in your own words, please. in terms of dust.... While it offers a free to play option, the only way to be on a competitive level or beat strong players in terms of skills, equipment, experience (boosters), etc pay to win means that when a paying players fights a free to play player, the paying player will win every time. Assuming both players have an equal chance of winning. Simply put, a paying player has some sort of advantage over the free to play player. A playing player will also have more paths to choose from in terms of suits/vehicles when on the battlefield because of the difference in SP. Another way to look at is, if it was not pay to win, a free to play player and a paying player should ideally have the same lifetime SP and same opportunity to skill into every skill available to them if they earned the same amount of of WP, time spent playing, SP earned. Then, winning player will be based on which path they chose and skill. \ take your pick. lol. League of legends is a good example of a none pay to win game. Money is mostly spent on champion skins which have no effect on the battlefield. A champion with a skin will not have an advantage over the same champion without a skill.
So assuming they're equal in combat, would not having to pay for the loss of the suit not be an incredible advantage in a game that largely focuses on loss, consequence, and risk of personal finances?
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5549
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Define it in your own words, please. Well I know Loyalty Ranks sure aren't.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Vicious Minotaur
1620
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pay-to-Win: An in-game arrangement system whereby one pays the game designer currency units in exchange for exclusive in-game items that give said paying customer a competitive edge over non-paying customers.
I am a minotaur.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9010
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Pay-to-Win: An in-game arrangement system whereby one pays the game designer currency units in exchange for exclusive in-game items that give said paying customer a competitive edge over non-paying customers. In short, SP boosters LP boosters, AUR items, APEX suits, strong box keys.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
639
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:Pay-to-Win: An in-game arrangement system whereby one pays the game designer currency units in exchange for exclusive in-game items that give said paying customer a competitive edge over non-paying customers. In short, SP boosters LP boosters, AUR items, APEX suits, strong box keys. Techically speaking aur items, apex suits, and strong box keys can be earned through playing the game. And the aurum variants are exactly the same as the isk ones, so it's basically paying for something that other players can have without paying, just playing the game.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
1860
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Posted - 2014.12.30 05:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:Pay-to-Win: An in-game arrangement system whereby one pays the game designer currency units in exchange for exclusive in-game items that give said paying customer a competitive edge over non-paying customers. In short, SP boosters LP boosters, AUR items, APEX suits, strong box keys.
Except all of those things can be obtained without paying.
Except LP Boosters, but really, has anyone ever even bought LP Boosters? I don't even know if that would be considered pay-to-win, though. You are essentially paying for in game currency. So is EVE pay-to-win then?
They do take an absurd amount of grinding to get, but its still techinically not pay-to-win. The grinding needs to be cut down to a more manageable amount, IMO, though...
The role of Caldari suits is to whine on the forums.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6651
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:Pay-to-Win: An in-game arrangement system whereby one pays the game designer currency units in exchange for exclusive in-game items that give said paying customer a competitive edge over non-paying customers. In short, SP boosters LP boosters, AUR items, APEX suits, strong box keys. Except all of those things can be obtained without paying. Except LP Boosters, but really, has anyone ever even bought LP Boosters? I don't even know if that would be considered pay-to-win, though. You are essentially paying for in game currency. So is EVE pay-to-win then? They do take an absurd amount of grinding to get, but its still techinically not pay-to-win. The grinding needs to be cut down to a more manageable amount, IMO, though... Plus APEX suits aren't exactly better than anything else on the market. I can make better fits using only Militia compared to the appalling APEX fits I see rolling around.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3640
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Define it in your own words, please. in terms of dust.... While it offers a free to play option, the only way to be on a competitive level or beat strong players in terms of skills, equipment, experience (boosters), etc pay to win means that when a paying players fights a free to play player, the paying player will win every time. Assuming both players have an equal chance of winning. Simply put, a paying player has some sort of advantage over the free to play player. A playing player will also have more paths to choose from in terms of suits/vehicles when on the battlefield because of the difference in SP. Another way to look at is, if it was not pay to win, a free to play player and a paying player should ideally have the same lifetime SP and same opportunity to skill into every skill available to them if they earned the same amount of of WP, time spent playing, SP earned. Then, winning player will be based on which path they chose and skill. \ take your pick. lol. League of legends is a good example of a none pay to win game. Money is mostly spent on champion skins which have no effect on the battlefield. A champion with a skin will not have an advantage over the same champion without a skill.
What about two free playing players that started at different times?
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3640
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Pay to win=Anything that gives players a competitive edge and cannot be earned through playing the game.
Best definition.....should be listed under wiki, webster, britannica, old testament, etc
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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DlJNN SouI
9
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:Pay to win=Anything that gives players a competitive edge and cannot be earned through playing the game. Best definition.....should be listed under wiki, webster, britannica, old testament, etc lol nerd.
I am the real Soul.
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
820
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
The term that fits Dust514 would be PAY TO WIN SOONER Everything can be achieved without spending money. Spending money just gets you there sooner. Triple stacking boosters means you can pay to win A LOT sooner. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3640
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Plus APEX suits aren't exactly better than anything else on the market. I can make better fits using only Militia compared to the appalling APEX fits I see rolling around.
lol APEX fits are garbage
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9012
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Plus APEX suits aren't exactly better than anything else on the market. I can make better fits using only Militia compared to the appalling APEX fits I see rolling around.
lol APEX fits are garbage APEX suits are garbage but I make so much money off of them.
But same could be said for milita fitted suits, whatever I just don't like BPOs in this game at all.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6652
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Plus APEX suits aren't exactly better than anything else on the market. I can make better fits using only Militia compared to the appalling APEX fits I see rolling around.
lol APEX fits are garbage APEX suits are garbage but I make so much money off of them. But same could be said for milita fitted suits, whatever I just don't like BPOs in this game at all. They are simply easy kills for non BPO players as far as I am concerned.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Grimmiers
756
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dust would need an identical isk version of every aur item if it wanted to tone down it's recent pay-to-win options. Then ccp could be making money from players buying aur items and selling contents for isk.
The paint bucket also would've been a cool non pay to win feature that could be exclusively aurum based. How cool would it be to have control over your dropsuit's color and texture, your gun effects, and even your glowing eye color. Corp emblems could be placed on your suits/guns and would be a fun item to collect from your enemies
The loyalty rank is probably the most pay to win feature we have currently. They should make it so aur has no affect on rank and having a higher rank gives you a discount on non-booster aur items. Players right away knew they would have to spend way to much money just to enjoy the loyalty rank benefits. Daily missions should award loyalty rank points as well and it should mostly be a way to weed out alts from higher level content.
Perhaps free to play games could get away with crowdfunding always being available.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3642
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Posted - 2014.12.30 07:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't think that aur should've been used to calculate Loyalty Rank but I think it still counts as getting ahead sooner. The question boils down to is whether or not, "getting ahead sooner" is a cheat? Because all gear purchased with aur can be bought with ISK.
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
820
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Posted - 2014.12.30 07:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grimmiers wrote:Dust would need an identical isk version of every aur item if it wanted to tone down it's recent pay-to-win options. Then ccp could be making money from players buying aur items and selling contents for isk.
The paint bucket also would've been a cool non pay to win feature that could be exclusively aurum based. How cool would it be to have control over your dropsuit's color and texture, your gun effects, and even your glowing eye color. Corp emblems could be placed on your suits/guns and would be a fun item to collect from your enemies
The loyalty rank is probably the most pay to win feature we have currently. They should make it so aur has no affect on rank and having a higher rank gives you a discount on non-booster aur items. Players right away knew they would have to spend way to much money just to enjoy the loyalty rank benefits. Daily missions should award loyalty rank points as well and it should mostly be a way to weed out alts from higher level content.
Perhaps free to play games could get away with crowdfunding always being available.
I want my G-I scout BPO's to be skins that can be applied to any isk/aur Gal scout so bad. I know most would not want to lose the free std BPO just to have a skin but I would. Then all I would ask for would be the black eagle gal scout skin.
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Grimmiers
756
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Posted - 2014.12.30 07:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
voidfaction wrote: I want my G-I scout BPO's to be skins that can be applied to any isk/aur Gal scout so bad. I know most would not want to lose the free std BPO just to have a skin but I would. Then all I would ask for would be the black eagle gal scout skin.
It would work like borderlands 2 where you collect themes that can be applied to each fitting. Having the eve online paint tool they use for their ships would be pretty awesome too.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact Back and Forth
6709
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Posted - 2014.12.30 07:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ugh, i don't even give a f*ck anymore...
CBM
[Event]Dust Hunger Games
PC, ISK,EVE, Corp Services
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Kalante Schiffer
Ancient Exiles.
864
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
paying money to get the most OP gun in the game that is not available to unlock or purchase with in game currency,
I am looking at black ops 2 and its hybrid gun.
AE.
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
514
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
The only thing I consider Pay-to-Win in Dust is the boosters.
Everything else is fine.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
14149
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Posted - 2014.12.30 12:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
The system we have set up now works for a lobby shooter. But if we're ever going to have a proper economy, AUR gear has to go, as they will wreck it quite hard.
SP boosters I don't mind, they're hardly P2W, but LP boosters I'm quite iffy on.
Feline overlord of all humans
Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
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Aderek
Made in Poland... E-R-A
115
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Posted - 2014.12.30 13:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Play to win is like Pray to win ;)
(i love when i make kill thale sniper with my militia sniper)
dust514.pl
MM proto logi
50 kk SP and growing
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5765
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Posted - 2014.12.30 13:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Addressing OP,
The ability to purchase with out-of-game currency a feature or item that is superior to features or items available for in-game currency.
Addressing others in this thread that believe Dust 514 is P2W...
Proto AUR and proto ISK weapons have the same stats. AUR gear is not pay-to-win.
APEX ISK and APEX AUR dropsuits have the same stats. Moreover, they have the same stats as the 100% ISK variants. APEX suits are not pay-to-win.
Boosters increase SP payouts, but so does just simply playing more matches. Moreover, more SP means more skills at V, every merc has the exact same skill tree with the same maximum skill levels. Boosters are not pay-to-win.
FacWar boosters give you more LP, but so does just simply playing more matches. Moreover, LP payouts increase with standings. Standings are unaffected by AUR expenditure. Someone who plays FacWar more can earn more LP than someone spending AUR on boosters simply by virtue of their standing.
Loyalty rank increases ISK payouts, but you can earn more ISK by simply playing more matches. Loyalty rank can be increased without purchasing AUR. Loyalty rank is not pay-to-win.
Officer weapons can be obtained from salvage as well as randomly through strongboxes. Officer weapons are not pay-to-win.
My advice to you, playa...
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1301
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Posted - 2014.12.30 13:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The system we have set up now works for a lobby shooter. But if we're ever going to have a proper economy, AUR gear has to go, as they will wreck it quite hard.
SP boosters I don't mind, they're hardly P2W, but LP boosters I'm quite iffy on.
I dunno about the SP boosters anymore. I mean, yeah, initially they were fine when it was just a 1.5x multiplier on a 190k cap, but now? The SP earning potential here is getting ludicrous tbqh, especially with the extended cap.
If taken advantage of, the current SP boosting system is certainly PTW content.
Stacking 3 omega passives and 3 omega actives, while activating instant boosts after every match could easily net several proto suits and a fair amount of the core skills in a single week! It would be roughly 12 million sp a week just from active. Nearly 700k a week passive. That's a bit much when initially it took about a month to reach a single proto suit with even with actives early on in the game.
What we have is way more than, "pay to get ahead" when the "ahead" part can mean several -months- of progress in a single week. I've used a fair amount of 1.5x boosters in my time here along with an omega or two for the MCC rewards to earn my 54 million over my year and a half, but someone who starts fresh and no lifes the game with some deep ass pockets can pass me by in just over a month? That's no bueno in my book.
I know it would be expensive to do, but that's how PTW game are.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Aderek
Made in Poland... E-R-A
115
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Posted - 2014.12.30 13:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Re Up:
dont look on people, who no life ;)
I only once make full new cap, have about 52 kk SP and im happy. I dont need more :)
dust514.pl
MM proto logi
50 kk SP and growing
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