DUST Search - [Feedback] Armor really is bad. Very bad.

Cross Atu wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

I can survive being slower in PC if it wasn't for the epic amount of explosive spam.
Just one core locus grenade kills me, even if I put on 4 complex plates, and BOY do they love to throw those around.
Even worse is when you realize that they get 3 of those, they have 7m explosive radius and they can restock from hives.

And then mass drivers.
F'ing mass drivers.

Or Forge gun snipers that kill me in two splash shots.

Yeah, it ain't pretty being a Gallente in a PC battle.

I'm hoping the explosive resistance tweak will help, but the sheer alpha of grenades and with how unavoidable the mass driver is it's always going to be a huge problem.

Right now, it's incredibly irritating and explosives account for a majority of my deaths.

This has always struck me as odd, take the AoE weapons and give them increased efficiency against the slow targets... humm.

Wouldn't it, intuitively, make more sense to have the EoA weapons primed for use against shields which are fast and thus harder to hit while the direct dps weapons are primed for armor which is easier to hit but has a (theoretically) higher buffer?

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Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 745	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:01:00 - [1] - Quote It's super bad. Did a loadout in PC with my Gallente Logi using 2 enhanced reppers, 2 enhanced ferroscale plates, and an enhanced armor plate... just that one enhanced armor plate with the -5% movement was so damn crippling. Couldn't even get from homepoint to it's nearest supply depot to swap a fit in time to make a save. I absolutely regret using armor. I miss my Caldari Assault... I never should have used my 2nd respec to go back into sniping. (This feedback is intended to compound the complaints on Armor's mediocre performance.)
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1384	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:34:00 - [2] - Quote Speed, even small amounts of it, is huge in Dust. This is especially true, or rather most clearly highlighted, in highly competitive matches. Ironically the value of speed is often overlooked by most players (and once in awhile it feels like it's being overlooked by CCP as well). Thank you for providing direct feedback on the subject, I hope that more players will follow suit and do some testing along these lines. The armor/shields issue is a big one for the game, but so is the awareness of the tactical and survival values provided by speed. Your test highlights both, which is great. 0.02 ISK Cross
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 2285	Posted - 2013.08.03 17:40:00 - [3] - Quote One of the problems is that ferroscale plates are terrible
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 246	Posted - 2013.08.03 17:56:00 - [4] - Quote Jathniel wrote: It's super bad. Did a loadout in PC with my Gallente Logi using 2 enhanced reppers, 2 enhanced ferroscale plates, and an enhanced armor plate... just that one enhanced armor plate with the -5% movement was so damn crippling. Couldn't even get from homepoint to it's nearest supply depot to swap a fit in time to make a save. I absolutely regret using armor. I miss my Caldari Assault... I never should have used my 2nd respec to go back into sniping. (This feedback is intended to compound the complaints on Armor's mediocre performance.) i mean, if your big plan was to go sniping.... something was wrong anyway, right?
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 322	Posted - 2013.08.03 17:59:00 - [5] - Quote Hmmm where's that cat at?
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 751	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:28:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: One of the problems is that ferroscale plates are terrible I wanted to put the complex on, but they are just too cpu/pg heavy. I hope CCP is able to get armor right soon. low genius wrote: i mean, if your big plan was to go sniping.... something was wrong anyway, right? Was something wrong? It was simply a matter of me wanting to go back and play the role I preferred initially. Assault got boring. It's paradise playing as a Caldari Assault. You're only frustration is having nothing worthwhile to do other than PC. I should have never left it. The respec breathed new life into the game for me, but now I can't go back.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 2290	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:38:00 - [7] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Hmmm where's that cat at? The cat stayed up too late last night and is asleep.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 2290	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:42:00 - [8] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: One of the problems is that ferroscale plates are terrible I wanted to put the complex on, but they are just too cpu/pg heavy. I hope CCP is able to get armor right soon. Complex plates are completely unusable due to fitting constraints in pretty much any build, unfortunately. By the way, you may want to consider using complex armour repairers - they're actually very good compared to enhanced ones. I also recommend investing in triage nanohives. Personally, I use a build with 4x enhanced normal plates, 1x complex armour repairer, dual damage mods, a shield extender, and triage nanohives. It has a lot of movement penalty but it's as close to a juggernaut as armour gets. A shield extender is a huge quality of life improvement, as it helps a lot against being instantly splatted everywhere by the first explosive weapon, and the inherent regen keeps it up to strength.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 199	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:16:00 - [9] - Quote I don't necessarily think the speed loss is that crippling, it's just so hard to get used to after you're used to be being quick. Going from Scout to armor plated assault is like a WTF moment you feel like molasses but the transition from a heavy is much easier. Also if you're going armor it's is best to go all the way as ferros and reactives kind of suck. Plus those triage hives man, those are the key. If you got a buddy one run triage hives and the other rep tool and you got some fine armor tanks. But they really need to make CPU and PG enhancers fit into both slots highs and lows because right now that favors shields. You can duel tank, it's like 1 of the 2 options you have as an Armor tanker, but not a requirement like it once was since everyone is not running with the Flaylock.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 751	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:35:00 - [10] - Quote The reason I went with a cpl ferroscales was to break just enough armor to sustain a charge sniper rifle/thale sniper round, and still have moderately decent armor reps, without losing too much mobility. I tend to take my suit across open areas fast, and that juste gets harder with pure plates instead of new ones. :(

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1732	Posted - 2013.08.03 21:17:00 - [11] - Quote There's a big difference between "tanking" and not being hit, that's why speed is so huge, and it's why Amarr suits seem to suffer disproportionately due to their speed penalty. The 60 hp so you might get out of going Amarr typically won't justify the speed hit that gets you shot easier... more likely leading to death. The loss of a module slot compounds the problem since a single slot can be used for more than the hp difference. Speed... it's why the commando sucks right now, and it's a big part of the armor problem.
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3801	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:15:00 - [12] - Quote I can survive being slower in PC if it wasn't for the epic amount of explosive spam. Just one core locus grenade kills me, even if I put on 4 complex plates, and BOY do they love to throw those around. Even worse is when you realize that they get 3 of those, they have 7m explosive radius and they can restock from hives. And then mass drivers. F'ing mass drivers. Or Forge gun snipers that kill me in two splash shots. Yeah, it ain't pretty being a Gallente in a PC battle.
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3801	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:15:00 - [13] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Hmmm where's that cat at? meow
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 2295	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:22:00 - [14] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I can survive being slower in PC if it wasn't for the epic amount of explosive spam. Just one core locus grenade kills me, even if I put on 4 complex plates, and BOY do they love to throw those around. Even worse is when you realize that they get 3 of those, they have 7m explosive radius and they can restock from hives. And then mass drivers. F'ing mass drivers. Or Forge gun snipers that kill me in two splash shots. Yeah, it ain't pretty being a Gallente in a PC battle. I'm hoping the explosive resistance tweak will help, but the sheer alpha of grenades and with how unavoidable the mass driver is it's always going to be a huge problem. Right now, it's incredibly irritating and explosives account for a majority of my deaths.
Spycrab Potato Hold-Your-Fire 180	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:44:00 - [15] - Quote Ofcourse armor is bad. CCP LOVES THEIR SHIELDS. DON'T YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND YET. CCP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT US. JUST THEIR CALDARI BUDDIES. I am a Gallente at heart and am PROUD about it. Give us something to fricking work with CCP.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 54	Posted - 2013.08.04 01:05:00 - [16] - Quote i once out ran an ob while in a heavy suit once.... armor tank should get a buff by decreasing the speed penalties....just a little...
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1391	Posted - 2013.08.04 13:08:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I can survive being slower in PC if it wasn't for the epic amount of explosive spam. Just one core locus grenade kills me, even if I put on 4 complex plates, and BOY do they love to throw those around. Even worse is when you realize that they get 3 of those, they have 7m explosive radius and they can restock from hives. And then mass drivers. F'ing mass drivers. Or Forge gun snipers that kill me in two splash shots. Yeah, it ain't pretty being a Gallente in a PC battle. I'm hoping the explosive resistance tweak will help, but the sheer alpha of grenades and with how unavoidable the mass driver is it's always going to be a huge problem. Right now, it's incredibly irritating and explosives account for a majority of my deaths. This has always struck me as odd, take the AoE weapons and give them increased efficiency against the slow targets... humm. Wouldn't it, intuitively, make more sense to have the EoA weapons primed for use against shields which are fast and thus harder to hit while the direct dps weapons are primed for armor which is easier to hit but has a (theoretically) higher buffer?
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 903	Posted - 2013.08.04 13:26:00 - [18] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I can survive being slower in PC if it wasn't for the epic amount of explosive spam. Just one core locus grenade kills me, even if I put on 4 complex plates, and BOY do they love to throw those around. Even worse is when you realize that they get 3 of those, they have 7m explosive radius and they can restock from hives. And then mass drivers. F'ing mass drivers. Or Forge gun snipers that kill me in two splash shots. Yeah, it ain't pretty being a Gallente in a PC battle. I'm hoping the explosive resistance tweak will help, but the sheer alpha of grenades and with how unavoidable the mass driver is it's always going to be a huge problem. Right now, it's incredibly irritating and explosives account for a majority of my deaths. This has always struck me as odd, take the AoE weapons and give them increased efficiency against the slow targets... humm. Wouldn't it, intuitively, make more sense to have the EoA weapons primed for use against shields which are fast and thus harder to hit while the direct dps weapons are primed for armor which is easier to hit but has a (theoretically) higher buffer? I think the idea behind that is that since armor sucks by itself they made the AoE weapons to kill the poor logistic following the armor suit
Tosh Tearg BetaMax. 67	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:46:00 - [19] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I can survive being slower in PC if it wasn't for the epic amount of explosive spam. Just one core locus grenade kills me, even if I put on 4 complex plates, and BOY do they love to throw those around. Even worse is when you realize that they get 3 of those, they have 7m explosive radius and they can restock from hives. And then mass drivers. F'ing mass drivers. Or Forge gun snipers that kill me in two splash shots. Yeah, it ain't pretty being a Gallente in a PC battle. I'm hoping the explosive resistance tweak will help, but the sheer alpha of grenades and with how unavoidable the mass driver is it's always going to be a huge problem. Right now, it's incredibly irritating and explosives account for a majority of my deaths. This has always struck me as odd, take the AoE weapons and give them increased efficiency against the slow targets... humm. Wouldn't it, intuitively, make more sense to have the EoA weapons primed for use against shields which are fast and thus harder to hit while the direct dps weapons are primed for armor which is easier to hit but has a (theoretically) higher buffer? it's because they're trying to keep it the same as EvE, where armor slows you down. In an FPS setting though it doesn't work. What needs to happen is to either make the speed penalty WAY less, or make the armor plates give you MASSIVE EHP to offset the speed penalty and the AoE effects. But of course that won't happen cause the shield bro's would go apeshit.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1393	Posted - 2013.08.04 15:36:00 - [20] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I think the idea behind that is that since armor sucks by itself they made the AoE weapons to kill the poor logistic following the armor suit /emote is not sure whether to laugh or cry



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