|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2321
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 03:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP should work out a deal with SOE to make DUST 514 a modded Planetside 2 server.
I know what you're thinking.
Hear me out though:
Planetside 2 is a robust mixed arms game. It can handle linked facilities, shields, walls, gates, defenses, canyons, tunnels, open fields, air combat, vegetation... It has a lot of the pieces we all were expecting of DUST 514. Features in development include constructable defenses, orbital bombardments, continental conquest and a revamped resource system that makes wars of attrition meaningful. Those features are expected by the end of the year.
DUST 514 could be a fantastic high health, 4 (or even more!) faction mod of PS2 with tighter resources for special equipment and greater faction diversity. Without worrying about how to make aiming work or even how to design the netcode, they can just focus on their strengths - art and asymmetrical balancing (well, assuming the EVE devs do it, not wolfman's team).
Using the resources already in place, DUST can translate a lot of their themes using PS2 mechanics.
The "Forever War"
Faction Warfare takes place on 4 main planets at launch, 1 for each faction. These can be as large or small as CCP likes but I recommend at least PS2 continent sized. The alert code can be changed to trigger access to special areas such as asteroids, pirate bases or space stations and even maybe titans. I'm sure with just a little arm twisting these can actually be coded to trigger based on events in EVE, since SOE already has api code for exporting the results.
Interplanetary Travel Network
Instead of warping around the maps with the gates, you warp to warbarges. These act as VR rooms in space. If you want to travel to a new planet, you have to wait in the VR room to simulate "travel time". Use the code for crowded servers in a new way to make space travel feel meaningful. Fight clubs (with EVE betting possible with integrated twitch streaming in PS2) could also take place aboard the barges.
Veni, vidi, vici
SOE is delivering outfit capturing and continent conquest soon. Complete with redecoration and resource perks. This could very easily be small isolated areas outside of the "big 4", say around the size of the upcoming battle islands. To make the game less of a punch clock, they would only be accessible for small windows, not 24/7. So while there may be hundreds of planets to conquer, there are only a few hot spots at any given time. You can plan on sneak attacks, joint operations, backstabs to your heart's content but you have to fight to take it and win. It's likely you'll need to form coalitions since anyone can show up looking to snag your prize.
I would just copy PS2's progression, fitting, cosmetics, and monitization scheme wholesale; they are solid for a F2P fps. It would honestly take an essay to fully flesh out the translation, but I know it would be a better format for portraying the struggle of all out warfare, logistics, and tactics that meaningful gameplay can emerge from. Of course it's a pipe dream, but CCP should think long and hard about it. Instant simultaneous access to PS4 and PC simultaneously, continual updates to the client provided by SOE, freedom to update their balance quickly and painlessly, and still maintain the freedom of creating a living universe and a decidedly "DUST 514" gameplay. Better yet, cross-pollination with current PS2 players and the EVE playerbase could bring that fresh market they were hoping for all along. SOE wins, CCP wins, the players wins. I wish it would be seriously considered. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2321
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 04:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Heck, let's try things like rare loot:
Weapon Caches
Of the available conquest facilities on rotations, some of them could be faction armories. So if you capture a sanshan territory, you gain the ability to cert into their modded scrambler rifles and pistols. PS2 supports this type of feature with heavy tanks and tech facilities already, CCP can just make the system more intricate. If you lose the facility, you lose access to those weapons too. Since those weapons cost certs (XP) that means it is a long term commitment to an area and a strong reason not to simply abandon when confronted with conflict. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2326
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 06:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
It looks like you left a bit too soon. I played PS2 since beta as well and while both it and DUST 514 are night and day from their earliest builds, only one of the two has gotten better...
About the only feature DUST has that PS2 will never have is dynamic sharding. But I can live with that limitation for now. If DUST was a PS2 modded server they could certainly opt to go single shard.
EVE has not improved much except graphically over its long life and actually sitting down to attempt "fun" it shows.
|
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2326
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 06:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:It looks like you left a bit too soon. I played PS2 since beta as well and while both it and DUST 514 are night and day from their earliest builds, only one of the two has gotten better... About the only feature DUST has that PS2 will never have is dynamic sharding. But I can live with that limitation for now. If DUST was a PS2 modded server they could certainly opt to go single shard. EVE has not improved much except graphically over its long life and actually sitting down to attempt "fun" it shows. ...wow. I'm not even going to dignify that last sentence with a response. At the point where SOE enables continent locking, actual functioning warpgates, and player-owned bases like they've had marked as "unscheduled" on their fancy roadmap for months, I might consider reinstalling. As for right now, I'm really not that interested in MMOBF3.
EVE is a boring game. People haven't fought over anything of significance in years. And that's the "epic" side of the scale. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2327
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 07:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:It looks like you left a bit too soon. I played PS2 since beta as well and while both it and DUST 514 are night and day from their earliest builds, only one of the two has gotten better... About the only feature DUST has that PS2 will never have is dynamic sharding. But I can live with that limitation for now. If DUST was a PS2 modded server they could certainly opt to go single shard. EVE has not improved much except graphically over its long life and actually sitting down to attempt "fun" it shows. ...wow. I'm not even going to dignify that last sentence with a response. At the point where SOE enables continent locking, actual functioning warpgates, and player-owned bases like they've had marked as "unscheduled" on their fancy roadmap for months, I might consider reinstalling. As for right now, I'm really not that interested in MMOBF3. EVE is a boring game. People haven't fought over anything of significance in years. And that's the "epic" side of the scale. BUT... that is no reason DUST 514 couldn't be an exciting game. Hence the suggestion in the OP. Which you suggest is only possible by turning it into a Planetside 2 mod. Yeah, okay. Just like I said to Sir Eros, everybody has their own opinion, which is one of the beautiful things about being human. Obviously there's a substantial number of people who don't find EVE boring. The key is making your own fun, rather than expecting the game to hand it to you. Like hunting down <1 year mission-runners who don't pulse their D-scanners and jumping them with frigate fleets. Or taking a wormhole 50 jumps out into hostile territory and seeing how many of the fleet survive the trip back. Or getting 50 drunk people together in Rifters, flying up to Jita, and spamming "We are the 1%" and "Occupy Jita" until all the high-sec carebears ***** in the help channels and GM Aldali logs in and gives us 3-day gags in all public channels. The reason I've never gotten "burned out" on EVE is because I never stick with the same thing for too long. I'm always trying something new, and that means it's always fresh. In any case, it's 0300. I need sleep.
Not one of those things is gameplay that EVE provided. You generated the adventure in the barest of sandboxes. Maybe CCP deserves credit for providing the venue. Now tell me again why DUST shouldn't aspire to be more like PS2?
And it's really getting old to bash a game on lies. At least the problems I hope get fixed with DUST 514 actually exist. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2329
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 14:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:PS2 is a terrible game and it's even more boring than Dust.
I don't know why anyone would want anything to do with it.
Because it is not a terrible game? I'm not sure how you can say that objectively with any hint of sincerity. Maybe it's not a game you like but it certainly captures many of the immersive dynamics DUST 514 originally intended to fulfill.
Pray tell, what could PS2 learn from DUST 514? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2329
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 15:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:CryEngine 3 is terrible for trying to run anything more than a 16-player lobby shooter.
Before you even try and call bullshit, why do you think that after anouncing MechWarrior Online as a 24 player game, they released it to Open Beta as a 16 player game, and are only now even testing 12v12?
I've had some experience with development on the CryEngine. It's very pretty, but it's far from perfect.
By your own admission then, DUST must be terrible? Why do you think they announced it as a 48 player game and only now are testing 32? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 16:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Captain Wontubulous wrote:The biggest problem with this would be that PS2 is a steaming pile of crap. Especially the part where you have to be in the fight where you're overwhelming the enemy with numbers to have fun. Otherwise you get to just get stomped at the front where the enemy has overwhelming numbers. DUST needs to continue building it's own niche not steal from someone else and hope their players migrate over.
Maybe if you are a terrible player that enjoys winning by means non-reliant on your skill? I run solo, squads of 2-6, and about once a week join a full sized outfit platoon. But I have been instrumental in winning (and losing) fights where the odds expected otherwise. Planetside 2 has strong tactics now. It didn't before because the bases were too simple and the resources too common. It has improved and today it is much better. Hell we even have christened one particular stretch of road "Where Zergs go to Die". I think you missed the point when you assumed every fight should be winnable once a certain number of people show up. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 16:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Both games are ****, deal with it.
But do two ***** make you give a crap? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 16:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Both games are ****, deal with it. But do two ***** make you give a crap? Not in the slightest ^_^ I invested in this pos, both time and mercenary packs, I better see it through til it dies.
If 1.4 flops as either broken or significantly under-delivers (4 stat tweaks = a build, really?) are you willing to call it? |
|
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 16:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:PS2 is a terrible game and it's even more boring than Dust.
I don't know why anyone would want anything to do with it. Because it is not a terrible game? I'm not sure how you can say that objectively with any hint of sincerity. Maybe it's not a game you like but it certainly captures many of the immersive dynamics DUST 514 originally intended to fulfill. Pray tell, what could PS2 learn from DUST 514? Very little, because Dust sucks as well. PS2 is not exactly an upgrade either, it's a sidegrade and it's a bad one. You play Dust, you get bad mechanics with the promise of even numbers and theoretically an even fight. You play PS2, you will always have a lopsided fight by the numbers where tactics do nothing exept make the fight longer or shorter, never changing the outcome of anything. And if you do win, who cares. Whatever you took will be gone by the time you wake up. In PS2 you will never, under any circumstances, get a "good fight". It is impossible. Not because of the aiming mechanics or similar problems like Dust has, but because the game simply works in a way where it cannot and will not happen ever. The numbers are always lopsided. It's the type of game where competitive gamers go to die because everything was already decided before the fight even began.
I say you are full of it. There are good fights everywhere, you just have to slice up the pie and try to avoid getting in over your head. I challenge you to define your "good fights" label and why neither game currently fits it. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 16:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Both games are ****, deal with it. But do two ***** make you give a crap? Not in the slightest ^_^ I invested in this pos, both time and mercenary packs, I better see it through til it dies. If 1.4 flops as either broken or significantly under-delivers (4 stat tweaks = a build, really?) are you willing to call it? Will call it on 1.5, 1.4 can burn I'm not Infantry :D
But the vehicle changes are purportedly 1.4 ... or did they excuse themselves yet again? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 16:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Well with Dust, 16 versus 16 can actually result in a good fight if both teams rise to the occasion.
In PS2, one side will always outnumber the other, and if both sides are evenly matched in skill it will simply come down to the numbers making it a pre-determined outcome from the start.
So I'm not full of it. PS2 is flawed from the get-go.
The only way a person can find a "good fight" in PS2 is if he is not actually fighting for anything at all and is in the game as a pure soloist, looking to get himself in over his head and challenge his limits that way. That is the only way the game has any merit, and at that point its just a giant team deathmatch.
If you play the game how it was intended to be played, it is completely pointless as a competitive gamer.
Have you seen the coming battle islands? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:xjumpman23 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Well with Dust, 16 versus 16 can actually result in a good fight if both teams rise to the occasion.
In PS2, one side will always outnumber the other, and if both sides are evenly matched in skill it will simply come down to the numbers making it a pre-determined outcome from the start.
So I'm not full of it. PS2 is flawed from the get-go.
The only way a person can find a "good fight" in PS2 is if he is not actually fighting for anything at all and is in the game as a pure soloist, looking to get himself in over his head and challenge his limits that way. That is the only way the game has any merit, and at that point its just a giant team deathmatch.
If you play the game how it was intended to be played, it is completely pointless as a competitive gamer. PS2 is currently more competitive than DUST514 and is doing more to cater to competitive players than DUST514. #FactsOnly Not really. See what I did there? PS2 has MLG Dust has Urgent Fury Not even a contest. Because MLG is something anyone other than the people in it care about. Yeah, ok. You realize that that MLG crap pushed back the continent and new bases we were all looking forward to?
$10k in prizes vs Renaming a planet
One of these is not like the other. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Well with Dust, 16 versus 16 can actually result in a good fight if both teams rise to the occasion.
In PS2, one side will always outnumber the other, and if both sides are evenly matched in skill it will simply come down to the numbers making it a pre-determined outcome from the start.
So I'm not full of it. PS2 is flawed from the get-go.
The only way a person can find a "good fight" in PS2 is if he is not actually fighting for anything at all and is in the game as a pure soloist, looking to get himself in over his head and challenge his limits that way. That is the only way the game has any merit, and at that point its just a giant team deathmatch.
If you play the game how it was intended to be played, it is completely pointless as a competitive gamer. Have you seen the coming battle islands? Can't say that I have. I gave up on the game a while ago. Let me ask you something though. In your time with PS2 what can you honestly claim you, as a player, have accomplished? In Dust you could say "We took and held this region of space" or "we won this tournament". What can you say about PS2 that has any merit whatsoever, though? "We took an outpost that changes hands five times a day! Yea!". Not exactly inspiring.
Yes the strategic element of Planetside 2 is still in development. And they are very open about what they are doing, how they are doing it, and how long it is taking. We get WIP information, they let the average consumer give input on their roadmap, and they very quickly respond to player crisis. But it really isn't any different to say you "captured X district on Y planet" at all. It is just more tedious so that makes it more meaningful? Battle lines ebb and flow in Planetside 2 over the course of hours. And fairly soon there will be outfit recognition for capturing territory. So actually very soon you will be able to capture a base and anyone who visits it will know it. And they will, because it's not a lobby that is only active when the shift is up. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2331
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 17:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Also the worst part of Planetside 2, you can't win.
Imperfects already won at DUST. Now what? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2332
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:huge waist of effort and resources Sums up DUST 514 so far pretty well unfortunately. The IP is still good but certainly am questioning the value of the game development. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2332
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Well with Dust, 16 versus 16 can actually result in a good fight if both teams rise to the occasion.
In PS2, one side will always outnumber the other, and if both sides are evenly matched in skill it will simply come down to the numbers making it a pre-determined outcome from the start.
So I'm not full of it. PS2 is flawed from the get-go.
The only way a person can find a "good fight" in PS2 is if he is not actually fighting for anything at all and is in the game as a pure soloist, looking to get himself in over his head and challenge his limits that way. That is the only way the game has any merit, and at that point its just a giant team deathmatch.
If you play the game how it was intended to be played, it is completely pointless as a competitive gamer. Have you seen the coming battle islands? Can't say that I have. I gave up on the game a while ago. Let me ask you something though. In your time with PS2 what can you honestly claim you, as a player, have accomplished? In Dust you could say "We took and held this region of space" or "we won this tournament". What can you say about PS2 that has any merit whatsoever, though? "We took an outpost that changes hands five times a day! Yea!". Not exactly inspiring. Yes the strategic element of Planetside 2 is still in development. And they are very open about what they are doing, how they are doing it, and how long it is taking. We get WIP information, they let the average consumer give input on their roadmap, and they very quickly respond to player crisis. But it really isn't any different to say you "captured X district on Y planet" at all. It is just more tedious so that makes it more meaningful? Battle lines ebb and flow in Planetside 2 over the course of hours. And fairly soon there will be outfit recognition for capturing territory. So actually very soon you will be able to capture a base and anyone who visits it will know it. And they will, because it's not a lobby that is only active when the shift is up. Look, if you like PS2 "open world" gameplay here is what I recommend. Don't ask to just remake the game from scratch, because thats a bad idea. There are those of us who actually like the game types we have now, we just want them iterated upon and patched up. Instead, ask for a persistent battle zone on each planet that links the districts together. These areas could be joined at any time, and would have their own smaller outposts. Prior to a PC battle there could be optional objectives that an alliance could attempt to take and hold, somewhat similar to PS2 style conquest of flipping territory back and fourth. If you can hold the objectives prior to the PC battle itself, maybe you get some kind of advantage going into it. Control of half the points, sentries, additional clones, whatever. That way it gives your entire alliance the ability to participate in support of the fight itself, and it doesn't screw up the core game thats been established.
You misunderstand. I'm looking at the tech of how PS2 works, and seeing how using different constraints will give you exactly the scenario you described. We wouldn't have to wait years, just months to port the art. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2332
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Mobius(zergling) and people who are crying about zerging - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5K3AKl5qpcFighting outnumbered is one of the best things in gaming. I can't say I remember any particular fight I ever had in Dust514 (and that was when I played Dust514) yet many of my fights in PS2 already stand out... Wait...wait. You're accusing me of complaining about Zerging? You just accused my whole outfit of doing nothing but that in IRC only a week or two ago! I mean, do you even bother to keep track of all this stuff you keep spouting out? Hell, why do you think I said we liked Eisa Tech Plant on Esamir so much? While I was still playing, there was nothing more fun than dropping in on a pitched battle between the New Conglomerate and Vanu Sovereignty and managing to push back far superior numbers to wrest control of it from both. Holding it while they tried to force their way back in was even more fun. We would even leave them the "satellite" bases to give them easy ways in to make it more interesting. The NC would always leave before the VS, though. The VS just don't know what to do without their precious Swagriders. (Tech Plants allow you to pull tanks from base vehicle pads rather than only your Warpgate) Wow...something you fundamentally will never be able to do in a lobbyshooter like Dust514.... And who says it will remain that way perpetually? They have said that they intend to develop this game beyond the lifespan of the PS3, after all. Of course, you're just going to argue that it'll never make it that far, so I won't go to the trouble of making another long post.
If they are going to change it so dramatically in the future, why start from scratch? |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2332
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 18:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:
$10k in prizes vs Renaming a planet
One of these is not like the other.
So they just get a pass on everything because they throw money at you? No wonder all these Republicans keep getting elected with all their "tax cuts".
... nope, you can keep the cake. You are a class act - a class that doesn't dignify any more due. |
|
|
|
|