DUST Search - Flaylock will not be UP. Not even close.

All Channels

General Discussions

Flaylock will not be UP. Not even close.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 135	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:31:00 - [1] - Quote It just has a more limited role now, but it will excel in that role, which is finishing close range enemies who are down to armor and doing so quickly. Now we can switch to a sidearm almost instantly, so doing so to finish an opponent is very viable. The flaylock can still do more damage faster to armor than literally any light weapon or sidearm in the game in that situation, even the shotgun-excepting breach-as the flaylock has better range (through requires more accuracy at range now). You can get two shots off on someone very quickly. Let's see how much damage those two shots will do. The new base damage of the basic Flaylock Pistol will be 140. Currently the base damage of the Core Flaylock is 10% more than the basic one, so assuming that will hold true the base damage of the new Core Flaylock will be 154. So 154 x 1.32 (Flaylock Pistol Proficieny 4 and +20% dmg vs armor) = 203 hp of damage to armor with one shot. Two shots will inflict 406 hp of damage to armor. The blast radius is 1.87 meters. So in a situation in which you've depleted your opponent's shields (or close enough) and circumstances dictate that closing in to finish him is more advisable than engaging from range, it should be no great feat (for those who are not prohibitively slow) to close in and very quickly deal 406 hp of damage, which will finish the vast majority of opponents.
Silent Defiance Lone Hound of Death 12	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:53:00 - [2] - Quote that all sounds great.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 138	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:01:00 - [3] - Quote Also there are a lot of times when just the 203 dmg from one well placed shot is plenty to take someone out before they can react. If you're close enough to not need elite accuracy to hit the mark, the Core Flaylock will still be the best option in that situation.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 960	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:08:00 - [4] - Quote It's still going to be a spam weapon, which was the problem in the first place. Only now it will require about 25% more spamming to achieve the desired effect.
aden slayer Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 543	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:08:00 - [5] - Quote What about them shield tankers? Flaylocks will be useless against them.
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 165	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:29:00 - [6] - Quote Its still a 100 point shot. They wont be USELESS, unless CCP makes changes to the mechanics which have more... side effects. There are those of us that use it as intended. I'm not giving mine up. Its still a rocket pistol FFS.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 138	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:58:00 - [7] - Quote aden slayer wrote: What about them shield tankers? Flaylocks will be useless against them. That's why you've got your light weapon. Flaylock will not be good vs shields. It will be very good when you've depleted someone's shields and have a chance to engage them in CQC. It will be a sidearm. Also its restriction to this role will make it a lot harder to spam with. 0.67m less splash radius and 28% less damage will limit its use as a primary weapon.
Burntface man112 Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 9	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:00:00 - [8] - Quote aden slayer wrote: What about them shield tankers? Flaylocks will be useless against them. thats the idea, its a amour based weapon for killing amour users. use the Scrambler rifle or pistol to tear up shields.
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 385	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:09:00 - [9] - Quote I still dont know why CCP wants an indirect fire weapon to do more damage than a direct fire weapon. Do they support explosive no aim spam so much?
sixteensixty4 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 40	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:15:00 - [10] - Quote im not putting mine away either, i got basic suit, basic modules, and milita rifle, if you cant put me down before i ****** you over with flaylock, then shame on you id complain over nade spam (shouldnt be able to restock nades on hive) and mass driver before the flaylock, which you know, actually requires man to get up close and personal with True story with my whopping 380 hp, i never get killed by flaylock, but, whatever

zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 138	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:34:00 - [11] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: I still dont know why CCP wants an indirect fire weapon to do more damage than a direct fire weapon. Do they support explosive no aim spam so much? I don't know about you but for me doing damage with the advanced flaylock is no cakewalk and it has the same splash radius as the prototype will. If I'm very close and they're not moving very fast I can usually track their feet and land a hit but I miss a lot, and a miss = 0 dmg. So it's hit or miss unlike the SMG which is more spray and pray. I think they have different roles: Flaylock = shields depleted CQC finisher / high alpha dmg or no dmg SMG = all around CQC / less alpha, easier to do some dmg to fast moving targets or shields Scrambler Pistol = CQC against shields / high alpha dmg or no dmg/ no projectile drop
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 142	Posted - 2013.07.29 16:53:00 - [12] - Quote bump
da GAND 187. 196	Posted - 2013.07.29 17:17:00 - [13] - Quote ya it's a good thing that they nerfed it but still very usable
Xender17 Intrepidus XI EoN. 394	Posted - 2013.07.29 17:25:00 - [14] - Quote To quote myself.... Good. You all deserve wasted SP.
Cosgar ParagonX 3345	Posted - 2013.07.29 18:40:00 - [15] - Quote My only gripe is that it's still too easy to fit and spammable. Nerfing the blast radius on the core and RoF on all the flaylocks while increasing fitting costs could have been enough.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 271	Posted - 2013.07.29 18:50:00 - [16] - Quote OP - you do concede though that the new FP even at Lv4 Pro is less damage than the current Std FP And which enemy ran from that ??? Pistol/Knife for the skilled > SMG >> Flaylock. I was hoping the Flaylock would be somewhere between Pistol and SMG by them refining the radius and damage sensibly and reducing the RoF
Duck Drahko DUST University Ivy League 102	Posted - 2013.07.29 19:08:00 - [17] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: OP - you do concede though that the new FP even at Lv4 Pro is less damage than the current Std FP And which enemy ran from that ??? Pistol/Knife for the skilled > SMG >> Flaylock. I was hoping the Flaylock would be somewhere between Pistol and SMG by them refining the radius and damage sensibly and reducing the RoF Colour me confused. Why would I run from a sidearm? I sure as hell am not going to run from a pistol, knife, or SMG (well, obviously I'd want to keep distance between me and the knife). But when my shields are down, then a Flaylock would certainly rank high on the list of scariest things an attacker could whip out (insert cheesy innuendo).
Cosgar ParagonX 3345	Posted - 2013.07.29 19:11:00 - [18] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: OP - you do concede though that the new FP even at Lv4 Pro is less damage than the current Std FP And which enemy ran from that ??? Pistol/Knife for the skilled > SMG >> Flaylock. I was hoping the Flaylock would be somewhere between Pistol and SMG by them refining the radius and damage sensibly and reducing the RoF Colour me confused. Why would I run from a sidearm? I sure as hell am not going to run from a pistol, knife, or SMG (well, obviously I'd want to keep distance between me and the knife). But when my shields are down, then a Flaylock would certainly rank high on the list of scariest things an attacker could whip out (insert cheesy innuendo). You guys need to accept that this thing is a 1' missile, it's supposed to hurt.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 272	Posted - 2013.07.29 19:18:00 - [19] - Quote You wouldnt see the knife so no need to run, a skilled pistol user will finish you off quickly. A high SP SMG will destroy you in its range so you need to "run" or keep your distance so it isnt effective. All of that is independent of your amount of shield. The OP is now couching the super nerf in context of it being just a finisher when the other sidearms dont need that situation to be useful. It seems he is trying to sell comfort instead of looking at the reality.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 144	Posted - 2013.07.29 19:48:00 - [20] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: You wouldnt see the knife so no need to run, a skilled pistol user will finish you off quickly. A high SP SMG will destroy you in its range so you need to "run" or keep your distance so it isnt effective. All of that is independent of your amount of shield. The OP is now couching the super nerf in context of it being just a finisher when the other sidearms dont need that situation to be useful. It seems he is trying to sell comfort instead of looking at the reality. I don't have much experience with the other sidearms so I'm not sure. FP proto does seem to have a lower ceiling than the other protos, though it also has lower fitting cost. If the target has only 200hp or less of armor remaining I still say flaylock finishes them faster than anything. With the second shot the other two start catching up. If after the second shot he's not done then you might be better off with another sidearm at this point. After the third shot you have to reload and you want an SMG. But if the first two shots finished the job before he knew what was comin you're glad you have a flaylock. That 2 shot finish is a likely scenario for someone who engages at mid range with AR/SR and makes an effort to keep range until the target is down to armor. Also AR/SR are actually very effective against shields in CQC so if you don't waste too many bullets/have good reload discipline the chance to deprive a target of 400 hp of armor in 1.5 seconds should present itself a fair amount.

Jimthefighter Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.29 20:47:00 - [21] - Quote However, the point is that the FP will be relegated from being a primary weapon, to a secondary weapon to switch to. So, it breaks armor when your assaulting. The SP and Submachine gun are both probably better after the change for someone using a sidearm as an emergency weapon (snipers, AV, ect.). So at least THAT's something.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 272	Posted - 2013.07.29 20:49:00 - [22] - Quote OP - The situation you describe is correct but its a specific situation and therefore doesnt jive with your thread's subject. I will however concede that CCP keeping the requirements low as well as changing the optimization to CPU make it an easy fit and perfect for the situation you are describing... But as a weapon standing on its own merit it seems to be very weak once it gets this balance pass.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 382	Posted - 2013.07.29 20:56:00 - [23] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: So 154 x 1.32 (Flaylock Pistol Proficieny 4 and +20% dmg vs armor) = 203 hp of damage to armor with one shot. Two shots will inflict 406 hp of damage to armor. The blast radius is 1.87 meters. Close, but that's not how math works in New Eden. Your point still stands, however.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 125	Posted - 2013.07.29 20:59:00 - [24] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: It's still going to be a spam weapon, which was the problem in the first place. Only now it will require about 25% more spamming to achieve the desired effect. Nono, its a *SKILLSHOT* weapon right CCP even said so, so it must be true. Not at all the kind of weapon panicked amateurs would spam 3 shots at the feet of enemies they can't kill so as to keep their KDR in the green, like less 'skilled' noobs would with inferior skill-less weapons.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 125	Posted - 2013.07.29 21:01:00 - [25] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: I still dont know why CCP wants an indirect fire weapon to do more damage than a direct fire weapon. Do they support explosive no aim spam so much? This kind of weapon and aim assist are their solutions to aiming problems with the game/PS3 peripherals. Or do I mean hit detection problems? I have no problem with aiming however some weapons hit detection is seriously borked. Anyway, this is their solution to whatever the problem is.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 854	Posted - 2013.07.29 21:12:00 - [26] - Quote I use the specialist GN-13 flaylock, which has a 1.5m radius, and it works perfectly as a finishing weapon or something to use as a last resort. And it requires you land a better shot, rather than just aiming in the general direction of somebody for an instant kill. It still can be spammed though, but at least it will require more of an effort to aim properly.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 144	Posted - 2013.07.29 21:53:00 - [27] - Quote Karazantor wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: It's still going to be a spam weapon, which was the problem in the first place. Only now it will require about 25% more spamming to achieve the desired effect. Nono, its a *SKILLSHOT* weapon right CCP even said so, so it must be true. Not at all the kind of weapon panicked amateurs would spam 3 shots at the feet of enemies they can't kill so as to keep their KDR in the green, like less 'skilled' noobs would with inferior skill-less weapons. Another way of saying "skillshot" would be "hit or miss". With flaylock you either score a hit or you miss whereas with the SMG you're trying to keep the crosshairs as close to their center of mass as possible while spraying. The skill required for flaylock is lining up that one shot, whereas with SMG it's holding the crosshairs in the right place. For example, say two players are in sidearm range after wearing each other down. Both have 200 hp of armor remaining. One has a nerfed Core Flaylock and the other an Ishukone Assault SMG. If the flaylock user has the skill to connect with his first shot he wins. If not, then the SMG user has longer to spray and probably takes the flaylock user down before he get his second shot off. Holding the crosshairs close to center of mass requires a little less skill than lining up a single life or death shot with only 1.87m splash radius. If the flaylock user misses then the opponent with the superior weapon prevails...but if he hits it doesn't matter what weapon the opponent has. He's in pieces. The problem with the old Core Flaylock is that it didn't require enough skill to get that hit and did too much damage to armor. Now it will require the same accuracy as the advanced version which, I can tell you, requires accuracy and touch to use successfully.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 390	Posted - 2013.07.29 22:26:00 - [28] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: [quote=Karazantor]Holding the crosshairs close to center of mass requires a little less skill than lining up a single life or death shot with only 1.87m splash radius. Maybe in some games, but not in DUST. Lack of aim assist and relatively poor hit detection and relatively high strafe speeds means it is pretty tough to maintain SMG fire on your opponent if they are moving defensively. Doubley so if you are as well. Since the flaylock user will likely be jumping in addition to his movements, it becomes even harder. Flaylock is still easiest for that "finish him" scenario. Its just not quite a gimmee anymore. With the auto aim return in 1.4, Scrambler Pistol will be king of CQ, not just side arms. And SMG will get a buff too. Flaylock will be pretty much useless at that point.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 145	Posted - 2013.07.29 23:12:00 - [29] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: [quote=Karazantor]Holding the crosshairs close to center of mass requires a little less skill than lining up a single life or death shot with only 1.87m splash radius. Maybe in some games, but not in DUST. Lack of aim assist and relatively poor hit detection and relatively high strafe speeds means it is pretty tough to maintain SMG fire on your opponent if they are moving defensively. Doubley so if you are as well. Since the flaylock user will likely be jumping in addition to his movements, it becomes even harder. Flaylock is still easiest for that "finish him" scenario. Its just not quite a gimmee anymore. With the auto aim return in 1.4, Scrambler Pistol will be king of CQ, not just side arms. And SMG will get a buff too. Flaylock will be pretty much useless at that point. Well I'm KB/M so it won't help me. But it will be interesting to see how much the game changes for controller users.


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.