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Asirius Medaius
Planetary Response Organization
69
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello fellow mercs,
After getting pretty bored in Dust 514 (who would've figured), I decided to see how outrageously slow the missiles were that ejected from the Swarm Launcher.
I positioned myself about 250 meters from an LAV, which wasn't moving, distance taken relative to a capture point while I was on top of a large tower.
Lock, and release swarms, and time the amount of seconds it takes to reach 250 meters. I got roughly 6 seconds. Now, what does this mean?
Divide 250 meters by 6 seconds; the speed of the Swarm Launcher's missiles go about 41.667 meters/second (rough estimate, but pretty close).
Now, look at the Wikipedia article about the RPG-7 (a real weapon, serviced in 1961), and take a look at it's rocket velocity; It's initial velocity is 115, and its max velocity is around 295 meters/second.
Now, out of curiosity CCP, why is it that a handheld rocket propelled grenade launcher created in the 1950's and serviced in the 1960's has rockets that are 7.07 times faster than a swarm launcher (math: [ 295 / 41.667 ]) made AT LEAST tens of thousands years after present time?
We have railguns (on tanks and installations) and forge guns that fire and hit (almost) instantaneously (or at least close to), but we have "Swarm Missiles" that go about 7 times slower than a grenade with a rocket attached to its a** in the distant future, in a different part of the universe?
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Musta Tornius
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
529
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because of gameplay balance. |
NIGGSWORM
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
22
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Asirius Medaius wrote:Hello fellow mercs,
After getting pretty bored in Dust 514 (who would've figured), I decided to see how outrageously slow the missiles were that ejected from the Swarm Launcher.
I positioned myself about 250 meters from an LAV, which wasn't moving, distance taken relative to a capture point while I was on top of a large tower.
Lock, and release swarms, and time the amount of seconds it takes to reach 250 meters. I got roughly 6 seconds. Now, what does this mean?
Divide 250 meters by 6 seconds; the speed of the Swarm Launcher's missiles go about 41.667 meters/second (rough estimate, but pretty close).
Now, look at the Wikipedia article about the RPG-7 (a real weapon, serviced in 1961), and take a look at it's rocket velocity; It's initial velocity is 115, and its max velocity is around 295 meters/second.
Now, out of curiosity CCP, why is it that a handheld rocket propelled grenade launcher created in the 1950's and serviced in the 1960's has rockets that are 7.07 times faster than a swarm launcher (math: [ 295 / 41.667 ]) made AT LEAST tens of thousands years after present time?
We have railguns (on tanks and installations) and forge guns that fire and hit (almost) instantaneously (or at least close to), but we have "Swarm Missiles" that go about 7 times slower than a grenade with a rocket attached to its a** in the distant future, in a different part of the universe?
need some ice bro? |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
292
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:Because of gameplay balance. This. Also, RPG's aren't heat-seeking. |
Paladin Sas
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
80
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
to the OP, you might look up the velocity of a Stinger missile or a javelin, seems like a more adequate compairison. i would, but i cant be bothered |
Bittersteel the Bastard
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:Musta Tornius wrote:Because of gameplay balance. This. Also, RPG's aren't heat-seeking.
Yeah. Does an RPG need to track a vehicle? |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
351
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
I thought swarm launcher were tiny heat seaking missles and not RPGs. I mean you can fit 5x6= 30 rockets into that one reload magazine. |
Cy Clone1
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
170
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
a missile that tracks would need to be able to correct its trajectory mid flight, that's why they tend to be slower. |
Daedric Lothar
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
1291
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
The future sucks.. Thats why. Everything made in Caldari Taiwan by the lowest bidder ... What do you expect? |
Poonmunch
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
162
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
And you can't lie prone, either.
Explain that one.
Munch |
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1750
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your grenade flies straight while your missiles turn and track.
Physics says that the radius of a turn increases as the square of the speed.
So your misdles fly fast or they can have that tiny turn radius, but not both.
Increase the speed by much and vehicles can start to dodge them. |
xeto rak
Epidemic. Space Immigration
29
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
The point raised is valid. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Generals EoN.
806
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
The stinger is more akin to a Javelin and not the RPG-7 |
Poonmunch
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
162
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Your grenade flies straight while your missiles turn and track.
Physics says that the radius of a turn increases as the square of the speed.
So your misdles fly fast or they can have that tiny turn radius, but not both.
Increase the speed by much and vehicles can start to dodge them.
You don't need much a turn radius when you go mach 2.2(see my post above).
Talking about turn radius on a missile with a slow moving target is like talking about turn radius on a sniper bullet.
Munch |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1750
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:Skihids wrote:Your grenade flies straight while your missiles turn and track.
Physics says that the radius of a turn increases as the square of the speed.
So your misdles fly fast or they can have that tiny turn radius, but not both.
Increase the speed by much and vehicles can start to dodge them. You don't need much a turn radius when you go mach 2.2(see my post above). Talking about turn radius on a missile with a slow moving target is like talking about turn radius on a sniper bullet. Munch
Missiles don't have anywhere near the velocity of a railgun slug. |
Asirius Medaius
Planetary Response Organization
70
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:Because of gameplay balance.
Even with their speed, they are still pretty terrible compared to a forge gun. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1750
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Posted - 2013.07.26 17:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Then of course there is game balance. Lock-on weapons are already easy mode.
If we make weapons that allow you to get a lock followed by an instant hit against vehicles I'll ask for the same thing in a sniper rife.
Take a look at present day automated aiming before you tell me that it wouldn't be possible in the future.
In fact if you want to extrapolate technology to what the real battlefield of he future would look like, just take a look at modern airliners. Pilots of old hand flew, but modern pilots just program systems and monitor them. Your merc would look in the direction of his enemy and will his weapons to auto aim and fire, taking into account the available rounds. In fact, your weapons would probably fire before you were aware of the threat because that would give an overwhelming advantage.
That's far more realistic, but makes for a lousy game. |
Asirius Medaius
Planetary Response Organization
70
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Posted - 2013.07.26 18:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Removed, someone commented faster than I did. |
Asirius Medaius
Planetary Response Organization
70
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Posted - 2013.07.26 18:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Then of course there is game balance. Lock-on weapons are already easy mode.
If we make weapons that allow you to get a lock followed by an instant hit against vehicles I'll ask for the same thing in a sniper rife.
Take a look at present day automated aiming before you tell me that it wouldn't be possible in the future.
In fact if you want to extrapolate technology to what the real battlefield of he future would look like, just take a look at modern airliners. Pilots of old hand flew, but modern pilots just program systems and monitor them. Your merc would look in the direction of his enemy and will his weapons to auto aim and fire, taking into account the available rounds. In fact, your weapons would probably fire before you were aware of the threat because that would give an overwhelming advantage.
That's far more realistic, but makes for a lousy game.
Then just make the missiles have a high speed that if the dropship even boosts at the last moment, the missiles won't be able to respond due to the sheer traversal of itself. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
813
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Posted - 2013.07.26 18:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
If you really wanted tech from the future every battle would be over before it starts. |
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Asirius Medaius
Planetary Response Organization
73
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Posted - 2013.07.26 18:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:If you really wanted tech from the future every battle would be over before it starts.
And the same with Dust 514. Dying before it even came out of beta. |
Poonmunch
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
164
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Posted - 2013.07.26 18:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Poonmunch wrote:Skihids wrote:Your grenade flies straight while your missiles turn and track.
Physics says that the radius of a turn increases as the square of the speed.
So your misdles fly fast or they can have that tiny turn radius, but not both.
Increase the speed by much and vehicles can start to dodge them. You don't need much a turn radius when you go mach 2.2(see my post above). Talking about turn radius on a missile with a slow moving target is like talking about turn radius on a sniper bullet. Munch Missiles don't have anywhere near the velocity of a railgun slug.
My point is about the relative speeds of the projectile and its intended target.
The sniper bullet travels much faster than a running guy. Chick chick boom.
The missile travels much faster than the vehicle it is aimed at.
Turns can be fast and have a short radius or slow and have a long radius. You can't do a U-turn at the fastest velocities or your vehicle will flip (then, to add insult to injury, the missile will hit you). A pilot would black out (then the missile will hit you or you will hit the ground). Besides, a U-turn will just point you at the missile.
Obviously, it won't help much if your vehicle's turn is relatively slow.
In both cases the missile can alter its course to follow the target.
Chaff or flares might help, depending what the missile has locked onto.
In any case the odds are stacked heavily in favour of the missile.
Munch |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
927
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Posted - 2013.07.26 18:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
So you are really asking this question... In a game with shields?
You chose to raise issue with swarm launchers of all things, not the magical evaporating plasma bullets, nor the 80GJ railguns that don't blow the tops off of hills, nor the nanite injectors, nor the immortal insta-transfer-clones, nor the shields, nor the FLOATING MCCs?! How about the fact that all of our vehicles act like they have less mass then a modern car?
lol
Well first off, EVE does not have space, it has instead this weird jello-sea environment, so likely this effected the planets too. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1750
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Posted - 2013.07.26 20:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:Skihids wrote:Poonmunch wrote:Skihids wrote:Your grenade flies straight while your missiles turn and track.
Physics says that the radius of a turn increases as the square of the speed.
So your misdles fly fast or they can have that tiny turn radius, but not both.
Increase the speed by much and vehicles can start to dodge them. You don't need much a turn radius when you go mach 2.2(see my post above). Talking about turn radius on a missile with a slow moving target is like talking about turn radius on a sniper bullet. Munch Missiles don't have anywhere near the velocity of a railgun slug. My point is about the relative speeds of the projectile and its intended target. The sniper bullet travels much faster than a running guy. Chick chick boom. The missile travels much faster than the vehicle it is aimed at. Turns can be fast and have a short radius or slow and have a long radius. You can't do a U-turn at the fastest velocities or your vehicle will flip (then, to add insult to injury, the missile will hit you). A pilot would black out (then the missile will hit you or you will hit the ground). Besides, a U-turn will just point you at the missile. Obviously, it won't help much if your vehicle's turn is relatively slow. In both cases the missile can alter its course to follow the target. Chaff or flares might help, depending what the missile has locked onto. In any case the odds are stacked heavily in favour of the missile. Munch
Yes, you can have super high acceleration missiles that would likely strike the vehicle every time.
Is that what you are asking for? A no aim auto hit weapon? In a FPS game?
Because that is what it sounds like you are asking for. |
Poonmunch
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
165
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Posted - 2013.07.26 21:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Poonmunch wrote:Skihids wrote:Poonmunch wrote:Skihids wrote:Your grenade flies straight while your missiles turn and track.
Physics says that the radius of a turn increases as the square of the speed.
So your misdles fly fast or they can have that tiny turn radius, but not both.
Increase the speed by much and vehicles can start to dodge them. You don't need much a turn radius when you go mach 2.2(see my post above). Talking about turn radius on a missile with a slow moving target is like talking about turn radius on a sniper bullet. Munch Missiles don't have anywhere near the velocity of a railgun slug. My point is about the relative speeds of the projectile and its intended target. The sniper bullet travels much faster than a running guy. Chick chick boom. The missile travels much faster than the vehicle it is aimed at. Turns can be fast and have a short radius or slow and have a long radius. You can't do a U-turn at the fastest velocities or your vehicle will flip (then, to add insult to injury, the missile will hit you). A pilot would black out (then the missile will hit you or you will hit the ground). Besides, a U-turn will just point you at the missile. Obviously, it won't help much if your vehicle's turn is relatively slow. In both cases the missile can alter its course to follow the target. Chaff or flares might help, depending what the missile has locked onto. In any case the odds are stacked heavily in favour of the missile. Munch Yes, you can have super high acceleration missiles that would likely strike the vehicle every time. Is that what you are asking for? A no aim auto hit weapon? In a FPS game? Because that is what it sounds like you are asking for.
GOD, NO!
Just pointing stuff out.
If I wanted something, I'd ask for it directly (I have little-to-no tact).
Munch
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
1465
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Posted - 2013.07.26 21:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
And tankers still say swarms are OP |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6607
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Posted - 2013.07.26 22:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lore Wise
Reset Button about 15,000 years long we just recently got back out into space again and found the stargates just less than a handful amarr emperors ago.
Tech Lore Wise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-e0b_Y4sJY
Missiles need time to see and understand the target these days as well as defeat any attempts to hack in flight. |
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