DUST Search - Why Do People Complain About Assault Rifles?

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Personally, I don't like the way ARs are working because you can only use the Standard AR to any real success. The TAR might be getting back on its feet after its most recent nerf (as Cosgar mentioned), but I'm not sure. I don't think the weapon is "broken". I just want to see people want to be able to use the other varieties of the weapons and actually be successful with them.

For example, I would be using the Burst AR if it didn't suck so much. It's a weapon that requires a bit more skill than the Standard AR because you have a delay between shots - and therefore have to place your shots more carefully - yet it's weaker than the standard AR. I might even use the breach if I didn't feel like I could hose down an enemy in more or less the same time with the Standard AR in CQC.

In short, I don't think the weapon is broken. I think that it is in a good place as far as a default weapon should be. I think other weapons need to be improved so that there can be a stronger "rock, paper, scissors" element to ranges, burst damage, etc. I also think that the AR branch should be used in its entirety, as should every weapon with different types. If not, there's no point in having them in the game, and that kills an avenue of diversity that we should be exploring.


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Cosgar ParagonX 3176	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:07:00 - [1] - Quote Player skill in, power out. Something that takes 2x the amount of player skill to use should not have 2x the amount of power. What this boils down to is that in any multilayer game involving PVP, (not just FPS) the most powerful game mechanics usually require the least amount of skill while the ones that require more skill aren't as effective, but are fun to use. In Dust, the standard AR is the easy mode weapon. It's the first thing any new player will ever get their hands on. It's familiar and follows the boring but effective trope, making it the most widely used weapon in almost every situation. A player can literally invest all their SP into the AR and use the Duvolle for their entire merc career and be just fine, but it's not always the most effective weapon. The breach, burst (If they worked) and the TAR require more skill and are less effective than the standard AR, but are powerful within their given situation, I'm not talking about just aiming, but the skill to put those weapons in their niche situations to be used effectively. But due to over nerfing, bad aiming, hit detecting... etc, the breach and burst under perform while the TAC AR is underrated in its current rebalanced state. Without these variants properly balanced, the standard AR gets the most focus because it becomes the most effective weapon by default which throws off the delicate player skill < raw power balance. And that's just within the AR. Believe it or not, but the other weapons in the game require more skill than the standard AR. Again, not talking about just aiming, but the ability to create a situation where they can perform in their respective niche. But the problem is that a lot of these weapons under perform, even in their respective niche situation where they should dominate the AR. Prime example, the HMG. Inside 30m a heavy with an HMG should be shredding an AR 9/10, but due to poor aiming mechanics, hit detection, and the HMG nerf the reality is that the weapon only wins ~4/10 of those engagements. There's nothing wrong with the standard AR, the other variants and other niche weapons need to be more powerful in their respective niche situations. The hate comes from the fact that the AR is perceived as OP because it's the most consistent and serviceable weapon on the battlefield. There's a completely unrelated, indirect issue with the AR that you can even find within this very topic. If you haven't realized it yet, it's doomed to continue. *In b4 get good scrunb, learn2play EVEtard, GTFO... etc...
Cosgar ParagonX 3176	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:24:00 - [2] - Quote Oh, and you know, the elitism circulating around the AR as well. Players that use other weapons don't like to hear AR users complain about them when they already have to put more skill to get that kill. Especially when that AR user has to resort to personal insults and the like.
Cosgar ParagonX 3177	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:51:00 - [3] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Personally, I don't like the way ARs are working because you can only use the Standard AR to any real success. The TAR might be getting back on its feet after its most recent nerf (as Cosgar mentioned), but I'm not sure. I don't think the weapon is "broken". I just want to see people want to be able to use the other varieties of the weapons and actually be successful with them. For example, I would be using the Burst AR if it didn't suck so much. It's a weapon that requires a bit more skill than the Standard AR because you have a delay between shots - and therefore have to place your shots more carefully - yet it's weaker than the standard AR. I might even use the breach if I didn't feel like I could hose down an enemy in more or less the same time with the Standard AR in CQC. In short, I don't think the weapon is broken. I think that it is in a good place as far as a default weapon should be. I think other weapons need to be improved so that there can be a stronger "rock, paper, scissors" element to ranges, burst damage, etc. I also think that the AR branch should be used in its entirety, as should every weapon with different types. If not, there's no point in having them in the game, and that kills an avenue of diversity that we should be exploring. When the AR got the blanket nerf in kick and dispersion in closed beta, it ruined the other variants. The breach... well, we all know that story...
Cosgar ParagonX 3177	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:19:00 - [4] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: People will complain about whatever they die most often to. Vehicle pilots complain about forge guns, infantry complain about flaylocks, ARs, and Super Assaults (Cal Logi). If I had to choose it'd have to be all the noob tube explosive weapons, and that list includes flaylocks, grenades (Contact and Core Locus), and somewhat mass drivers. Explosions are the real bane of this game. You don't actually have to hit the person like you do with most other weapons. You just have to land your projectile in their general vicinity and claim your IWIN. I can't speak for flaylocks and grenades, but the MD requires a different skillset- putting yourself in the situation to perform. In open ground at mid range, the AR will always beat a MD. But at long range or with elevation a MD has the advantage as intended.
Cosgar ParagonX 3183	Posted - 2013.07.25 18:23:00 - [5] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: What about 1 hit kill forge guns? (Yesterday I had a guy do 2300 damage to me) What about the 1 hit kill sniper rifles? (there's not even any indication as to where the shot came from). What about the 1 hit kill plasma cannon? (no idea what it really is) What about the 1 hit kill shotgun? (I lost a 670 shield proto caldari logi suit to a militia shotgun from behind) What about scrambler rifles? I had one take out my 670 shield in less than a second. What about one hit kill LAVS going 5mph? Assault rifles are awful. I played PC yesterday and every single player from Outer Heaven was spamming mass drivers and flaylocks or camping on roofs whilst doing so. If assault rifles were so good every player would use them religiously instead they flock to the unbalanced, over-powered FOTM weapon. The game needs some major weapons re-balancing, I know I've named a lot of weapons here and somebody will come to their defense but I don't care, there are far too many one-hit-kill weapons in this game (used against infantry) which make assault rifles the least of your worries. In my last posts, I forgot to address the OP. With the exception of the LAV, all of those weapons are niche weapons and are only viable in specific situations. -A sniper has to line up that OHK and it's particularly harder now since draw distance is borked in 1.2 -Plasma Cannon only has 1 shot in the round and if you're complaining about this thing, you need to uninstall. -Shotguns have to get in your face and hit detection sucks -That was most likely a charged shot from a ScR and you were using shields, what do you expect? Want to complain about flux grenades next? -LAV = Learn Anti Vehicle Thanks for not complaining about the MD though, seem to be getting enough QQ and I can't drink all the tears.
Cosgar ParagonX 3183	Posted - 2013.07.25 18:45:00 - [6] - Quote CoD isAIDS wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: I think that some sniper rifles just do far too much damage. If I'm out in the open and someone shoots me it's my own fault. But WHY can you snipe Into the objective? I was hacking A and got shot by a sniper, that shouldn't be allowed. LOL So you want some magic anti-kinetic force field around objectives so you can't be shot while hacking the terminal? There kind of already is one. I get a shield flare when trying to hit someone hacking with a MD.
Cosgar ParagonX 3191	Posted - 2013.07.25 21:49:00 - [7] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: troll thread is troll next he'll say tanks are op because he cant solo with mlt gear In the current state tanks are in, you can
Cosgar ParagonX 3196	Posted - 2013.07.25 23:07:00 - [8] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: /Going home before I dirty my hands with any AR other than that found on a [STARTER FIT] He's was obviously trolling...
Cosgar ParagonX 3199	Posted - 2013.07.25 23:36:00 - [9] - Quote Skipper Jones wrote: They melt them because THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED TO DO! They say "Hello Cal logi. I like your sui. ohh now you're dead." You really think that your Cal logi should be invisible don't you? Take a hit and move on. True story: For the longest time, I was trying to figure out why people kept saying logis were OP. I looked at my Minmatar suit, the Gallente suit, laughed at the Amarr suit, and gave a "meh" to the Caldari. Got into a squad with people complaining about CaLogis and managed to get into a pub against some. Lobbed some fluxes, a couple MD rounds and wiped them out while everyone was busy hauling ass away from them. Keep in mind this was during the MD nerf/bug situation too. 5 of my 8 rounds were duds and I still wiped out 4 CaLogis like they were a joke.
Cosgar ParagonX 3200	Posted - 2013.07.25 23:46:00 - [10] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The AR has no drawbacks and can kill anyone. Every other weapon has a drawback and, well, can't. That's poor balance. Halo 4 is the ultimate example of how you properly balance out weapons. Every weapon is defined by a very specific range that it is strongest in. Just from the human weapons it is easy to see how the pattern works. The Halo AR devours the DMR and BR in closer ranges, but is useless beyond close-mid range. The BR dominates firmly at mid range while requiring extremely good headshot tracking to make the most of it, which the DMR is decent at mid range and dominates soundly at long ranges. The alien weapons mimic this pattern somewhat, but tend to requiring more skill to use properly. Unfortunately in this game, the AR is strongest in basically all ranges, minus extreme sniping. Lately this has become less true because of the poor shape the aiming is in, giving rise to splash based weapons as the primary threat on the field. That will be change in a month or so, and we will probably go right back to having AR's dominate everything again. Read back a few posts, I basically explained why the AR is so overpowered compared to other weapons. You're using this games version of E. Honda's hundred hand slap.