DUST Search - Some ideas for the LLAV

Telleth wrote:

lithkul devant wrote:

I think that AV gernade damage should get a bonus against all LAV's of around 10% or at least enough to counter balance the shield bonus against explosions. This is an ANTI-VEHICLE gernade, it's whole job in life is to make sure that it damages vehicles, you can not hurt any infintry with them, which is a huge minus, you can't take off anything's shields, thus it needs to be able to do it's job. I have hit an LLAV with 3 Packed AV gernades while it was parked, I did less then 10-15% damage to the LLAV. I don't mean like oh I threw it to the side and it missed and lag was messing with it. I threw the AV gernades right into the face of the driver and hood of the car. Naturally out of the encounter I got run over at a slow speed and died, when in real life at that speed I could have climbed into the car and beat the ever living out of the driver.

I would say maybe not to give it a bonus against LAV's, but make the AV nades do hybrid damage instead of explosive. Currently with their explosive damage, they rip through armor, but shields aren't going to feel them half as bad. If they were hybrid damage (think plasma) they would do equal damage to both shield and armor, which I would think fair considering the availability of damage types with our current nades.

I do like the idea of equipment slots for vehicles. This would be very nice for LLAV's especially, but could help shield vehicles as well seeing as they have to currently choose between things like scanners or shield tank. Would also add room for ammo supply, deployable shields, and such in the future. That is probably more of a long term goal compared to my current short term suggestions.

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Telleth DUST University Ivy League 82	Posted - 2013.07.25 05:12:00 - [1] - Quote I have tried out the LLAV to see what all the fuss was about, and here are some of my thoughts: First, I picture the LLAV as an infantry support vehicle. Logibro for large groups. There are several reasons this doesn't happen and everyone just goes murdertaxi. 1. Road kills are very easy 2. Trying to rep people from the LLAV is very difficult to do unless you and your target aren't moving. 3. It is fairly easy to be shot out of your LLAV, especially with blaster turrets, so you have to keep moving. So my thoughts on bringing the LLAV back to what I see its role being would be to change the way collisions work, change how the remote repper works, and better protect the driver. The collision damage is being "fixed" by CCP soon as I understand it, but the way I think it should work would be that a solid hit would do about 300-400 damage, or enough to seriously wound or finish off a wounded player. The dropsuit is a super advanced piece of body armor, but that front bumper is made with the same technology. The current repper's lock on system is rather crap. Like impossible crap that requires as much luck as skill to manage to lock on to someone. Then when they pass on the far side of a low crate, the lock is lost. To remedy this I would suggest one of two things, either remove the cooldown time on them so you can re-acquire the lock right after losing it, or change the repper to AOE similar to the nanohives that rep. This would mean possibly reducing the hp/s and maybe the duration, but keeping it much more effective than the rep tool used by logi's. Last, the ease of being shot out of your vehicle. If the LLAV is going to do its job of supporting the frontline, it needs to be able to stay there for an appreciable amount of time. To do this you need to be able to hang with a large group of infantry in a relatively small area of operation while being a big yellow target. I feel that the LLAV itself has a good amount of survivability, but more often than not, the driver is killed before it is. I don't think the driver should necessarily be invulnerable, but maybe decreasing the hit box so a talented sniper, or a squad of concentrated fire on the driver's seat be necessary to kill the driver. I would remove the ability to shoot the driver through the back of the LLAV completely, and maybe better shield the gunner. Nobody is going to run a proto small turret that costs as much as the LLAV if a MLT AR firing in the gunner's general direction can take it out. Again, not invulnerable, but better protected. Any thoughts? Am I missing how this could turn from a decent squad support vehicle into an Exploitable OP mess?
Jane Craft Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.07.25 05:37:00 - [2] - Quote I understand the points you are coming from and sound good but the speed and amount of HP llavs have make them pretty darn powerful. Your ideas are good and should probable be put in but something also needs to be done to not just buff but nerf at the same time. I am not saying make it so 1 militia swarm kills them. But seriously. Its easier to kill a have solo than to kill one of these "light" vehicles. What's the answer for fixing them? I dunno. And don't say just get av nades cuz you can't fire your 3 off before you either get run over or it zooms away to rep. But that's my 2 cents.
Telleth DUST University Ivy League 82	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:22:00 - [3] - Quote I think the nerf would be that they wouldn't be able to roadkill unless the enemy is already weakened. They need to be able to handle a shot or two from most AV so once they are targeted they still have a chance to run. They shouldn't be killing machines, so they would get most of their WP from triage. Currently the reason it is difficult to kill a LLAV is because of how much and fast they are moving, you rarely come to a stop while murdertaxi'ing. Their role would require them to slow down and stop more, so they will need that EHP. The fact that HAV's are easier to solo is an issue, but I think that problem is more with the HAV.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 374	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:03:00 - [4] - Quote I agree with everything. Why can't we simply put in a repair nanohive instead of a clunky infantry rep tool? Also, why shouldn't each vehicle specialization be different from the rest? A different skin is simply not enough to make it different. Even EVE's tech II and even some faction ships get slightly different models, even though it's all for visuals in there. Dust can achieve performance in addition to visuals for vehicle specialization.
Sarducar Kahn xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 20	Posted - 2013.07.25 15:46:00 - [5] - Quote I think LLAV needs to be slowed down a bit and have better driver protection than other LAVs, this coupled with better triage would see it used properly. Slowing down will be less of an issue with the physics fix.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 121	Posted - 2013.07.25 16:25:00 - [6] - Quote It'd be cool if vehicles had "equipment" modules of sorts that could be used to fit ammo drops, scanners, or reppers. The Logi LAV will apparently get a balance pass in 1.4/1.5 so we will see then how CCP will manage it. First and foremost their survivability needs to be retuned. Limbus is pretty ok but the Charybdis with its ridiculous shield resistance makes it damn near impossible to kill. It's ~2200 shields become closer to 4000 shields with the resistances they can stack... I think once collision physics are retuned we will see less people spamming them.
lithkul devant Cerberus Network. The Superpowers 9	Posted - 2013.07.25 16:40:00 - [7] - Quote I think that AV gernade damage should get a bonus against all LAV's of around 10% or at least enough to counter balance the shield bonus against explosions. This is an ANTI-VEHICLE gernade, it's whole job in life is to make sure that it damages vehicles, you can not hurt any infintry with them, which is a huge minus, you can't take off anything's shields, thus it needs to be able to do it's job. I have hit an LLAV with 3 Packed AV gernades while it was parked, I did less then 10-15% damage to the LLAV. I don't mean like oh I threw it to the side and it missed and lag was messing with it. I threw the AV gernades right into the face of the driver and hood of the car. Naturally out of the encounter I got run over at a slow speed and died, when in real life at that speed I could have climbed into the car and beat the ever living out of the driver. LLAV drivers that have the shield specced cars know they are near god like. Yeah I can at least somewhat handle the armor specced ones, but a shield spec, I am literally wasting gernades, gernades that only have 1 use they can not even be used against turrents like the swarm launcher, and I actually have to be close up enough to lob the gernade and hit it somewhat accuretly. I'm not saying my gernades need to be king, but they need to least do something. I agree with the OP, though I also feel that damage from hitting a suit should be based on how heavy the suit is and how fast the car is going, damage should also be applied to the car. (made out of same materials) Also, don't tell me that is to cheap how heavies could just form road blocks, cause their are mods right now that take damage down by 70% for a short while I believe, you would just have to prepare to ram someone before you actually do in order to avoid some of the damage. Note in real life, if you hit a deer with a car even a sturdy car, you can completely smash your ride and the deer might just get up and walk away. I don't think eve should be exactly like that, but come on...a heavy suit with a HMG isn't moving at exactly lighting speed.
Telleth DUST University Ivy League 83	Posted - 2013.07.25 21:26:00 - [8] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: I think that AV gernade damage should get a bonus against all LAV's of around 10% or at least enough to counter balance the shield bonus against explosions. This is an ANTI-VEHICLE gernade, it's whole job in life is to make sure that it damages vehicles, you can not hurt any infintry with them, which is a huge minus, you can't take off anything's shields, thus it needs to be able to do it's job. I have hit an LLAV with 3 Packed AV gernades while it was parked, I did less then 10-15% damage to the LLAV. I don't mean like oh I threw it to the side and it missed and lag was messing with it. I threw the AV gernades right into the face of the driver and hood of the car. Naturally out of the encounter I got run over at a slow speed and died, when in real life at that speed I could have climbed into the car and beat the ever living out of the driver. I would say maybe not to give it a bonus against LAV's, but make the AV nades do hybrid damage instead of explosive. Currently with their explosive damage, they rip through armor, but shields aren't going to feel them half as bad. If they were hybrid damage (think plasma) they would do equal damage to both shield and armor, which I would think fair considering the availability of damage types with our current nades. I do like the idea of equipment slots for vehicles. This would be very nice for LLAV's especially, but could help shield vehicles as well seeing as they have to currently choose between things like scanners or shield tank. Would also add room for ammo supply, deployable shields, and such in the future. That is probably more of a long term goal compared to my current short term suggestions.
Bojo The Mighty Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 1290	Posted - 2013.07.25 22:00:00 - [9] - Quote How about we make them slower and directed for Logistics work? The scout LAV is faster and has more torque but has less health Logi LAV is way stronger, but doesn't have such a great turret capability, but you know what that makes it all the more reason to run people over. It is resistant so it can take the AV punches. Sagas and Methanas keep distance and use their turret because AV nades hurt, so I think slowing the LLAV down with the downgraded turret output will be optimum, it discourages running people over or assaulting in general, which should be reserved for Methanas and Sagas.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 376	Posted - 2013.07.25 22:20:00 - [10] - Quote Telleth wrote: lithkul devant wrote: I think that AV gernade damage should get a bonus against all LAV's of around 10% or at least enough to counter balance the shield bonus against explosions. This is an ANTI-VEHICLE gernade, it's whole job in life is to make sure that it damages vehicles, you can not hurt any infintry with them, which is a huge minus, you can't take off anything's shields, thus it needs to be able to do it's job. I have hit an LLAV with 3 Packed AV gernades while it was parked, I did less then 10-15% damage to the LLAV. I don't mean like oh I threw it to the side and it missed and lag was messing with it. I threw the AV gernades right into the face of the driver and hood of the car. Naturally out of the encounter I got run over at a slow speed and died, when in real life at that speed I could have climbed into the car and beat the ever living out of the driver. I would say maybe not to give it a bonus against LAV's, but make the AV nades do hybrid damage instead of explosive. Currently with their explosive damage, they rip through armor, but shields aren't going to feel them half as bad. If they were hybrid damage (think plasma) they would do equal damage to both shield and armor, which I would think fair considering the availability of damage types with our current nades. I do like the idea of equipment slots for vehicles. This would be very nice for LLAV's especially, but could help shield vehicles as well seeing as they have to currently choose between things like scanners or shield tank. Would also add room for ammo supply, deployable shields, and such in the future. That is probably more of a long term goal compared to my current short term suggestions. Plasma grenades. Expect them when racial variants of the grenades come out

lithkul devant Cerberus Network. The Superpowers 10	Posted - 2013.07.28 17:41:00 - [11] - Quote Telleth wrote: lithkul devant wrote: I think that AV gernade damage should get a bonus against all LAV's of around 10% or at least enough to counter balance the shield bonus against explosions. This is an ANTI-VEHICLE gernade, it's whole job in life is to make sure that it damages vehicles, you can not hurt any infintry with them, which is a huge minus, you can't take off anything's shields, thus it needs to be able to do it's job. I have hit an LLAV with 3 Packed AV gernades while it was parked, I did less then 10-15% damage to the LLAV. I don't mean like oh I threw it to the side and it missed and lag was messing with it. I threw the AV gernades right into the face of the driver and hood of the car. Naturally out of the encounter I got run over at a slow speed and died, when in real life at that speed I could have climbed into the car and beat the ever living out of the driver. I would say maybe not to give it a bonus against LAV's, but make the AV nades do hybrid damage instead of explosive. Currently with their explosive damage, they rip through armor, but shields aren't going to feel them half as bad. If they were hybrid damage (think plasma) they would do equal damage to both shield and armor, which I would think fair considering the availability of damage types with our current nades. I do like the idea of equipment slots for vehicles. This would be very nice for LLAV's especially, but could help shield vehicles as well seeing as they have to currently choose between things like scanners or shield tank. Would also add room for ammo supply, deployable shields, and such in the future. That is probably more of a long term goal compared to my current short term suggestions. Thank you I was thinking about what type of damages there were and hybrid damage for the AV gernades would be optimal as it would hit the armor LLAV and the shield LLAV just as hard without putting one in favor over the other.
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 261	Posted - 2013.07.28 18:08:00 - [12] - Quote Telleth wrote: lithkul devant wrote: I think that AV gernade damage should get a bonus against all LAV's of around 10% or at least enough to counter balance the shield bonus against explosions. This is an ANTI-VEHICLE gernade, it's whole job in life is to make sure that it damages vehicles, you can not hurt any infintry with them, which is a huge minus, you can't take off anything's shields, thus it needs to be able to do it's job. I have hit an LLAV with 3 Packed AV gernades while it was parked, I did less then 10-15% damage to the LLAV. I don't mean like oh I threw it to the side and it missed and lag was messing with it. I threw the AV gernades right into the face of the driver and hood of the car. Naturally out of the encounter I got run over at a slow speed and died, when in real life at that speed I could have climbed into the car and beat the ever living out of the driver. I would say maybe not to give it a bonus against LAV's, but make the AV nades do hybrid damage instead of explosive. Currently with their explosive damage, they rip through armor, but shields aren't going to feel them half as bad. If they were hybrid damage (think plasma) they would do equal damage to both shield and armor, which I would think fair considering the availability of damage types with our current nades. I do like the idea of equipment slots for vehicles. This would be very nice for LLAV's especially, but could help shield vehicles as well seeing as they have to currently choose between things like scanners or shield tank. Would also add room for ammo supply, deployable shields, and such in the future. That is probably more of a long term goal compared to my current short term suggestions. Thing is, in Dust, there's 2 kinds of Hybrid damage. Rail based weapons does more damage to armor (but this isn't a Rail, so scratch), and plasma based does more to shield (but it doesn't go supernova, so scratch). As for your vehicle equipment idea, read this. Peace, Aizen
G Torq ALTA B2O 192	Posted - 2013.07.28 18:12:00 - [13] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: It'd be cool if vehicles had "equipment" modules of sorts that could be used to fit ammo drops, scanners, or reppers. The Logi LAV will apparently get a balance pass in 1.4/1.5 so we will see then how CCP will manage it. First and foremost their survivability needs to be retuned. Limbus is pretty ok but the Charybdis with its ridiculous shield resistance makes it damn near impossible to kill. It's ~2200 shields become closer to 4000 shields with the resistances they can stack... I think once collision physics are retuned we will see less people spamming them. Currently no vehicle-modules for ammo, but scanners and reppers exist.
G Torq ALTA B2O 192	Posted - 2013.07.28 18:25:00 - [14] - Quote My input: Drop the 30% shield/armor resists on LLAVs a bit (20%?) Drop the LLAV topspeed and accelleration a bit (not much, though) Change Infantry Repair to either AOE (TriageHive style) or Auto LockOn Create ammo-modules Have at least 2 of each LAV class per race (STD + ADV) Have A/V 'nades attatch to the vehicles, so LAVs cannot race away from the explosion (at full speed) Flux A/V 'nades, with lower damage than regular ones Fix the mCRU skill and modiules (there are 2 identical, and the skill gives CPU reduction instead of PG - useless) Created "Fitting Optimization" skills for turrets Source: I'm skilled just shy of 8m SP in LAVs, and use several fits that aren't MurderTaxis (Attack, Scout, Repair and mobile spawn-base)
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 110	Posted - 2013.07.28 18:41:00 - [15] - Quote We also need WP, we can't afford losing the LAVs if we don't get any WP thus getting little amounts of ISK. As I've tried saying before 5 WP per enemy kill done with active scanners "lighting them up" Similar WP gain from using a rep tool for the shield transporters and remote armor repper including guardians Also, the the repper/transporter should be an "activate and forget" setup if there is going to be a cooldown and they HAVE to remove blasters doing damage to the driver. Anyone who thinks it's fair doesn't get shot out of their LLAV while using a heavy suit by a guy using a militia small blaster every other game, and forget about the matches where people spam blaster tanks..


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