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The removal of tiers

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Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 275	Posted - 2013.07.25 01:12:00 - [1] - Quote First mistake is saying that proto w/o HP mods is better than basic with HP mods. You're wrong. Basic, Advanced, and Proto suits of the same type, without HP mods, have the exact same EHP. The Eve side tiericide only applied ships within the same level class. Example... Amarr Basic Amarr Battleship reqs for Armageddon, Apocalypse, and Abaddon: Spaceship Command 4, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlcruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 1 (The differerence in the old skill reqs were Armageddon: Amarr Battleship 1, Apocalypse: Amarr Battleship 3, and Abaddon: Amarr Battleship 5) Amarr Navy Issue Faction reqs for Armageddon (NI) and Apocalypse (NI) : Spaceship Command 4, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlecruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 2 Amarr related Pirate Faction Battleships reqs for Nightmare: Spaceship Command 4, Amarr and Caldari Frigate 3, Amarr and Caldari Destroyer 3, Amarr and Caldari Cruiser 3, Amarr and Caldari Battlecruiser 3, and Amarr and Caldari Battleship 1 Amarr Black Ops Battleship reqs for Redeemer: Spaceship Command 5, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlcruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 5, Science 5, Navigation 5, Warp Drive Operation 5, Jump Drive Operation 5, Jump Drive Calibration 4, Electronics 4, Cloaking 4, Black Ops 1 Amarr Marauder Battleship reqs for Paladin: Spaceship Command 5, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlcruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 5, Gunnery 2, Weapon Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5, Science 1, Engineering 2, Energy Grid upgrades 5, Marauders 1 So, as you see, the tiericide was rather minor as far as skill reqs for a class of battleship were unified with minor adjustments to ship attributes.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 275	Posted - 2013.07.25 01:20:00 - [2] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Angus McBeanie wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Its an MMO, not a standard FPS. Also, aurum only lets you get things sooner that you can already get with SP and ISK. Know the game. This game is as much a MMO as the newer Call of Duty games. Yes, I know what a MMO is, used to be a hardcore MMO gamer and this game have very few MMO elements in it Mary. When they talked about the game, before it came out, it sounded like an MMO, but to be fair, this is just a normal shooter which reminds me ABIT of battlefield heroes mechanisms. There you could advance and get better gear too and do abit better, didnt make it an MMO. This standard shooter atm. This game is not an MMO. It is more of a FPSRPG. This made me laugh. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it. Had to read it three times to get over my disbelief that it actually has to be explained to someone. Learn your acronyms. It is an MMO as MMO means "Massively Multiplayer Online" Where it's lacking is the RPG part, RPG meaning "Role Playing Game". I'm sure we all know FPS means "First Person Shooter", vehicles being the TPS (Third Person Shooter) exception. So Dust 514 is currently a MMOFPS with RPG elements meaning "Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter with Role Playing Game elements".
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 276	Posted - 2013.07.25 02:47:00 - [3] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: First mistake is saying that proto w/o HP mods is better than basic with HP mods. You're wrong. Basic, Advanced, and Proto suits of the same type, without HP mods, have the exact same EHP. The Eve side tiericide only applied ships within the same level class. Example... Amarr Basic Amarr Battleship reqs for Armageddon, Apocalypse, and Abaddon: Spaceship Command 4, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlcruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 1 (The differerence in the old skill reqs were Armageddon: Amarr Battleship 1, Apocalypse: Amarr Battleship 3, and Abaddon: Amarr Battleship 5) Amarr Navy Issue Faction reqs for Armageddon (NI) and Apocalypse (NI) : Spaceship Command 4, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlecruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 2 Amarr related Pirate Faction Battleships reqs for Nightmare: Spaceship Command 4, Amarr and Caldari Frigate 3, Amarr and Caldari Destroyer 3, Amarr and Caldari Cruiser 3, Amarr and Caldari Battlecruiser 3, and Amarr and Caldari Battleship 1 Amarr Black Ops Battleship reqs for Redeemer: Spaceship Command 5, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlcruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 5, Science 5, Navigation 5, Warp Drive Operation 5, Jump Drive Operation 5, Jump Drive Calibration 4, Electronics 4, Cloaking 4, Black Ops 1 Amarr Marauder Battleship reqs for Paladin: Spaceship Command 5, Amarr Frigate 3, Amarr Destroyer 3, Amarr Cruiser 3, Amarr Battlcruiser 3, and Amarr Battleship 5, Gunnery 2, Weapon Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5, Science 1, Engineering 2, Energy Grid upgrades 5, Marauders 1 So, as you see, the tiericide was rather minor as far as skill reqs for a class of battleship were unified with minor adjustments to ship attributes. Old prereqs were lvl's 1,2 and 3 for T1 ships within a class, not 1, 3 and 5, but other than that it's rather spot on. Dusts system, while similar, really isn't compatible with the concept. It would be like having a fast version, a tanky version, and a high damage version of each suit which were at the same level rather than the STD/ADV/PRO suits we have now. I stand corrected. Serves me right for confusing Dust skill system with the Eve skill system. Thank you for the correction.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 276	Posted - 2013.07.25 02:56:00 - [4] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Angus McBeanie wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: Its an MMO, not a standard FPS. Also, aurum only lets you get things sooner that you can already get with SP and ISK. Know the game. This game is as much a MMO as the newer Call of Duty games. Yes, I know what a MMO is, used to be a hardcore MMO gamer and this game have very few MMO elements in it Mary. When they talked about the game, before it came out, it sounded like an MMO, but to be fair, this is just a normal shooter which reminds me ABIT of battlefield heroes mechanisms. There you could advance and get better gear too and do abit better, didnt make it an MMO. This standard shooter atm. This game is not an MMO. It is more of a FPSRPG. This made me laugh. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it. Had to read it three times to get over my disbelief that it actually has to be explained to someone. Learn your acronyms. It is an MMO as MMO means "Massively Multiplayer Online" Where it's lacking is the RPG part, RPG meaning "Role Playing Game". I'm sure we all know FPS means "First Person Shooter", vehicles being the TPS (Third Person Shooter) exception. So Dust 514 is currently a MMOFPS with RPG elements meaning "Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter with Role Playing Game elements". This game is not an MMO by any means. Unless you think CoD and BF3 are MMOs lol. You obviously don't know what your talking about. But please reply and tell me how this is an MMO. I would LOVE to hear that. Dust is different from CoD type FPSs. Dust has a player base that's playing the same game together, on dedicated servers, set up and maintained by the game developer, that provides a persistent digital environment to said players. Unlike other CoD like games where any given match is hosted on one of the player's consoles. So, Dust is an MMO. The SP progression system is a standard RPG element, so is the persistent universe. So Dust has RPG elements. And finally Dust is a FPS, TPS for vehicles. So simple even you should understand it.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 276	Posted - 2013.07.25 03:02:00 - [5] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: I strongly agree with approach and idea. There's a reason most FPS don't allow you to increase base damage and HP (juggernaut and stopping power, anyone?). And honestly, I don't buy the MMO (or even the RPG) argument. Dust is just as much a lobby shooter as COD/BF/Halo/etc. That being said, I don't see them actually doing this. However, there still are things to consider for balancing. The three primary issues in my opinion are (in no particular order): 1 - Passive skill bonuses are too large (mostly just for damage and HP related skills) 2 - Modules are too effective/strong 3 - Proto allows for the stacking too many mods My suggestion for #1 and #2 would be to just reduce the numbers across the board. As an example, I think the base shield/armor skills give a +5% per level, I'd make it 1-2%. Complex shield mods have 66 HP, change it to around half of that. For #3, instead of reducing the number of overall slots, I'd spread them out. By this I mean keep the overall numbers the same, but introduce a third slot (medium?) and syphon away some highs and lows to fill that new slot. So the basic idea is a proto suit would be something like 2/2/2 (h/m/l) or 3/1/2 or 1/1/4 etc. As for what mods fit into what slot type, that would need to be redone completely. Here's a basic rundown of what I'm thinking: High - All damage and HP increasing mods Medium - Non-direct combat mods like stamina, stealth, scan radius, equipment related mods Low - Shield and armor effectiveness mods like rechargers, repairers, damage type resistance, etc They should then also introduce a whole bunch of new mods like things that effect how well your equipment works, or mods that for example take up two medium slots but give an extra high slot in return. People are probably going to **** on me for using this work/phrase/idea, but what this essentially does is makes modules more like perks that help you slightly in certain ways, rather than making you extremely dominant in any particular way. This way, you keep the same number of slots, keep the deep customization, but reduce the stockpiling of single mod types like shields/damage. You're still going to get progression and an advantage over noobs, but it will just be an advantage that you actively need to use with skill rather than just relying on huge passive numbers. Or they could just us a similar H/M/L slot classification for mods that they use in Eve. Want to limit it even further... How about only being able to put on one of each type of mod, that would completely eliminate stacking. While I agree that more balancing is necessary, I think the suits are fine. IMO, it's the weapons and modules that need the work.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 278	Posted - 2013.07.25 07:53:00 - [6] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: This made me laugh. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it. Had to read it three times to get over my disbelief that it actually has to be explained to someone. Learn your acronyms. It is an MMO as MMO means "Massively Multiplayer Online" Where it's lacking is the RPG part, RPG meaning "Role Playing Game". I'm sure we all know FPS means "First Person Shooter", vehicles being the TPS (Third Person Shooter) exception. So Dust 514 is currently a MMOFPS with RPG elements meaning "Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter with Role Playing Game elements". This game is not an MMO by any means. Unless you think CoD and BF3 are MMOs lol. You obviously don't know what your talking about. But please reply and tell me how this is an MMO. I would LOVE to hear that. Dust is different from CoD type FPSs. Dust has a player base that's playing the same game together, on dedicated servers, set up and maintained by the game developer, that provides a persistent digital environment to said players. Unlike other CoD like games where any given match is hosted on one of the player's consoles. So, Dust is an MMO. The SP progression system is a standard RPG element, so is the persistent universe. So Dust has RPG elements. And finally Dust is a FPS, TPS for vehicles. So simple even you should understand it. That does not make it an MMO. Trust me I'm almost done with college to become a game designer. So you feel that though I've been constantly participating in, gaining practical experience in, and beta testing, MMOs since 1999, I'm ignorant. Your own arrogance laced ignorance astounds. You should know your target before attempting to offend and insult. If I were to assume based on your statements, I would guess you were between 10 and 14 when I started my foray into MMOs. But to assume would be folley as you could have started earning your degree in your late 30s which might put you at around the same age as myself. Now that isn't to say that age makes a difference, but I do have a good 16 years of comprehensive adult experience behind me. Here. Maybe this will help. A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multi-player video game which supports large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played over the Internet. Many games have at least one persistent world. MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of game play types, representing many video game genres. This describes Dust.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 281	Posted - 2013.07.26 07:13:00 - [7] - Quote Avinash Decker wrote: Poonmunch wrote: One of the problems with DUST is that we have no equivalent to low sec and null sec, like they do in EVE. In EVE high security levels protect the lower level guys. Lower security levels give the upper level guys, with much better equipment and SP, more opportunity to reap greater rewards for the greater risk of lower security space. In DUST, we are all in the same big pot of guys trying to make a buck. I'm not sure how to give a similar balancing mechanism in DUST. There aren't enough of us to cover the whole EVE universe. Making more tiers outside of the academy might help. It could be based on SP or equipment levels. Of course there would also be wide open tiers where anyone could fight with any type of equipment. Perhaps the reward system could be used to stratify folks a bit better? Jobs in high security space might offer lower ISK rewards and jobs in low security space might offer higher ISK rewards. Expensive proto gear couldn't be replaced easily if proto gear can't make money. Penalize SP for losing too many clones to discourage people from playing militia gear in these matches. Perhaps a list of battles could be generated which show the security level for each battle. Before each game starts a player might wish to decide which security level he could fight in. Proto gear, or recent academy graduates could be banned from high security and low security jobs, respectively. This would make sense because an EVE corp would not want to pay the higher costs for proto armed mercs (who have higher overhead) in high security space, where the jobs would be much easier (CONCORD pretty much keeps things quiet and prevents big, expensive wars). Make fewer NULL cannons, CRUs, available clones, drop areas and turrets in low sec, so people have to be more aggressive and more likely to use better suits. Penalize players who use up a lot of clones if they wear militia gear in low sec space by reducing their SP. Maybe make hackable objects have different difficulties in different security types of space, so only proto suits can hack harder objectives and only lower tier suits can hack easier objectives. In any case, I hope they can figure something out. We are eating our young in pubstomping matches. Oh, and fix the AFK issue. That would help, too. Munch CCP isn't going to base matchmaking on skill points or gear levels , it is stated in my previous post . As for the security levels , it is represented by the 3 game tabs. Instant action is in High sec planets and both factional war and PC is in low sec. The matchmaking will be based on player skill . I think the idea is since proto players are usually get a lot of kills,wps, wins , etc they will be matched together more likely, and if some player that usually runs standard gear and plays really well a lot of the time, they will most likely be matched with the proto players. And lastly , I think they will balance the tiers so one won't be better than the other. If the tiers are flattened out as you're supposing, then there will be a lot of, "If tier two isn't better than tier one, and tier three isn't better than tier one or two, then there's no point in skilling up."
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 281	Posted - 2013.07.26 20:14:00 - [8] - Quote Angus McBeanie wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: So you feel that though I've been constantly participating in, gaining practical experience in, and beta testing, MMOs since 1999, I'm ignorant. Your own arrogance laced ignorance astounds. You should know your target before attempting to offend and insult. If I were to assume based on your statements, I would guess you were between 10 and 14 when I started my foray into MMOs. But to assume would be folley as you could have started earning your degree in your late 30s which might put you at around the same age as myself. Now that isn't to say that age makes a difference, but I do have a good 16 years of comprehensive adult experience behind me. Here. Maybe this will help. A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multi-player video game which supports large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played over the Internet. Many games have at least one persistent world. MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of game play types, representing many video game genres. This describes Dust. After thought: After a little research, I've reached a conclusion that CoD type games are MMOs in the barest sense as they use the internet to connect players to each other. In my mind they're still not true MMOs as they lack dedicated developer maintained servers and a "persistent world". And there you go, I said it was as much an MMO as the newer cod or battlefield. Just the simplest thing like interacting or questing with NPC's in open space area'd are not present in Dust(yes drones, but we heard about them for a year or two, if not more now). Instead of telling him off Shijima, go google Battlefield Heroes and compare that mechanisms of that game to how dust is. By all means, reading your 3-4 posts, your conclusions about an MMO describes most of the mechanisms of Battlefield Heroes and that game is not a f'kin MMO. I think you misunderstand. IMO, and by definition, Dust is an MMO while CoD and BF are barely MMOs. When I said they're not true MMOs I was only referring to CoD like games that hold their matches on a player's console rather than on a dedicated server with a "persistent world".

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