::facepalm::

Come back this time next year, and maybe we'll be ready. This community is in no way shape or form ready to make a collective, informed decision on who actually has not only the ability, but the drive and desire to do what the CPM does.

Thankfully you don't have to worry about pulling out early, cuz I doubt you'll even get in :/

The CPM isn't even set up yet - they're still trying to create a proper working relationship with CCP. Anyone new to the CPM would only hinder these efforts because they'd have no idea what they're getting into.

We don't need proper representation yet because they don't have any way to represent us. Read some of Hans' CPM activity reports to get a better idea of what you're talking about before you start suggesting things nobody is actually ready for.

Here's the link: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=915156#post915156

This is a more appropriate response; that said, I personally don't think the current CPM is capable of "creating a proper working relationship with CCP". Some of the members are ok, but I don't trust most of them. Just my opinion of course.

It doesn't matter if you trust them or not - they're not doing this for you; they're doing it for future CPMs. The fact is they are all capable of doing it, especially Hans with his previous CSM experience - this is probably the only CPM we'll ever have that has no members who are 'dead weight'.

As for dead weight, there is dead weight in the current CPM in myopinion (which I am entitled to); I'm trying to be polite and not call them out. I'd just rather if the community be able to decide for themselves who is our representation; if the community votes in someone I don't like, I can accept it more easily.

Just because you don't see what they're doing, it doesn't mean they're doing nothing. Read the reports and you'll get a better idea because this CPM is not so much about being the community's monkeys like you sound like you want them to be but doing a lot of talking with CPM behind the scenes to get everything set up. Hell, they don't even know who all the teams are or what they're all working on yet. You think anyone else could do that? What will anyone else do? Jumping up and down and saying the community wants (insert whatever cause you think is important and currently unrepresented) won't get anywhere because they won't know who to be talking to.

You should go look through the history of the CSM and see what real dead weight looks like.

Nah, while I always enjoy bumping heads with Fiend, he's absolutely right. Hate em or love em, they got to run their course and establish a solid precedent for the next round of CPM. The worst thing to do right now would be to pushing "reset" on leadership. If Bernanke just up and left halfway through QE1 or 2, it would have been a shitstorm. Salvageable, but a shitstorm regardless.

In fact, I fear that might already be realized if Larino is stepping down (or already has). I sincerely hope it's a false alarm as he's a smart guy and always understood the for what he wanted it to be, but if so I wish him all the best for both the him and the game.

How exactly do you think people learn how to lead or establish relationships? It takes time son; Trial and Error

::facepalm::

Come back this time next year, and maybe we'll be ready. This community is in no way shape or form ready to make a collective, informed decision on who actually has not only the ability, but the drive and desire to do what the CPM does.

Thankfully you don't have to worry about pulling out early, cuz I doubt you'll even get in :/

Regardless of what our "mandate" is, setting up an election process and an election process alone is a rather pointless exercise all things considered. That is, unless you're in a rush to have elections and select a new council that faces the same uphill battle we do right now getting a working relationship established with CCP, and that can't do much more than any other player can via the forums because they dev's don't magically open a firehose of information to them because they got a white tag overnight. Also, you'd be in a rush to have a council where I won't be involved (since this proto-council is the end of my "political" career) and I'm one of the few individuals (on either the CPM or CCP) involved right now that has extensive experience working systematically and successfully in this capacity.

There is simply no way that elections can be our primary focus, even though that process has begun, as Caz demonstrated. Others are free to disagree, of course - but that's how I see it. We're in contact with CCP of course, via Skype and our internal forums - but we still await a good amount of information from the various devs teams, their roadmap, and pending projects - that will take time to open up and to get flowing regularly. This is my personal priority as a CPM member, because frankly I could care less how the next council gets elected if it doesnt have the same level of access to the development process that the current CSM. It would merely be a democratically-selected feel-good club.

The reason it's not easy to achieve this by just opening the firehose of information is because this is a different studio than the one that makes EVE and most of these developers have never invited in outsiders to participate in their working process the way that the EVE developers have learned to over a several-year period. If we as a CPM achieve this over the next several months we'll still be making a remarkable progress in a short amount of time compared to the years it took the CSM to get there, but that short amount of time is not 4-5 weeks (our time in office so far). Your patience is both needed and appreciated.

I totally get it - in the meantime everyone's having fun going rah rah rah and stamping feet and pointing fingers and criticizing, but if you think that this was all going to magically happen overnight or that the only thing the CPM should be focusing on is how to vote for a second council who would still need to build working relationships from scratch (and without someone on board who had done this before), you were sorely mistaken.

Signed.
Vote Caeli!!!!

I don't think this is the right method to learn to lead or establish relationships, though it is better than others.

Oh, and don't call me "son". My father passed away a few years ago (and while you have no way of knowing that), I think it's disrespectful to his memory. Thanks for understanding.