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        | Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) | 
      
      
        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 443
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:08:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 people keep comparing the mass driver to the flaylock... the mass drive has a longer range and a bigger blast radius. thats why the splash damage is less. it covers at max proficiency 5m... your movement speed of the average suit is 5m so no one can escape the radius.
 
 but again two can play that game. if flaylocks are supposed to be "mini mass drivers" and be inferior in every regard, why are ARs better than HMGs?
 
 people say... flaylocks are secondaries and they arent supposed to be effective like a primary.... well gee by that logic ARs a light weapon should not in anyway be superior to an HMG an anti infantry HEAVY weapon. but then people scream BALANCE, because if the HMG where better than ARs it would be unbalanced.
 
 likewise, flaylocks are balanced in such a way to be effective side arms. not inferior but with a different role... like people claim about the AR verses the HMG.
 
 if flaylocks are nerfed, then every weapon that is superior to one of a higher level should be nerfed. simplely put an AR should never be better than a HMG at killing
 
 
 the point of te matter is: why is it that the flaylocks needed to be nerfed because they were good as secondaries and matching light weapons; but the HMG was nerfed and its a heavy weapon? basically secondary = light weapon, so you nerf secondary. then heavy weapon > light weapon, so you nerf heavy weapon. why?
 
 
 so right now AR > secondary; and AR > HMG... i just don't understand. please explain
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 443
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:13:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 also, please explain this comment by wolfman: "In the hands of a skilled player, it (flaylock) quickly proves itself to be superior to other sidearms and begins to rival other primary weapons. This is going to change and here's how."
 
 this is kinda how an FPS is supposed to work if you are  skilled with a weapon then it is effective . why would you change that. if someone is good with snipers and gets kills your don't nerf it. if someone is good with ARs you guys actually buff it...lol. i just don't understand why you would nerf something this hard.
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        |  Pje251296
 KILL ORDERS
 
 85
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:16:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 As long as it is actually usable but, we'll wait and see and then complain then cry and leave.
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        |  Rogatien Merc
 Red Star.
 EoN.
 
 489
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:19:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 
 D legendary hero wrote:people keep comparing the mass driver to the flaylock... the mass drive has a longer range and a bigger blast radius. thats why the splash damage is less. it covers at max proficiency 5m... your movement speed of the average suit is 5m so no one can escape the radius.
 but again two can play that game. if flaylocks are supposed to be "mini mass drivers" and be inferior in every regard, why are ARs better than HMGs?
 
 people say... flaylocks are secondaries and they arent supposed to be effective like a primary.... well gee by that logic ARs a light weapon should not in anyway be superior to an HMG an anti infantry HEAVY weapon. but then people scream BALANCE, because if the HMG where better than ARs it would be unbalanced.
 
 likewise, flaylocks are balanced in such a way to be effective side arms. not inferior but with a different role... like people claim about the AR verses the HMG.
 
 if flaylocks are nerfed, then every weapon that is superior to one of a higher level should be nerfed. simplely put an AR should never be better than a HMG at killing
 
 
 the point of te matter is: why is it that the flaylocks needed to be nerfed because they were good as secondaries and matching light weapons; but the HMG was nerfed and its a heavy weapon? basically secondary = light weapon, so you nerf secondary. then heavy weapon > light weapon, so you nerf heavy weapon. why?
 
 
 so right now AR > secondary; and AR > HMG... i just don't understand. please explain
 An AR is not a "mini-HMG" (I loled)
 
 ... and the AR is not > HMG if you don't suck and understand terrain. Just sayin.
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        |  hackerzilla
 Defenders of the Helghast Dream
 
 142
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:20:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 You said "an AR should never be better than an HMG for killing". What you meant is an AR should never be better than an HMG at killing in close-close mid range.
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 443
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:21:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 im not even mad im just confused they are inconsistent... and its weird. they nerf a secondary thats as good as a light weapon but nerf a heavy weapon thats better than a light weapon.... i just dnt understand (sparks come out brain and explodes)
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        |  Zekain Kade
 TeamPlayers
 EoN.
 
 1326
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:22:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 An lmg would be the big brother to the at. But we don't have those .
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 443
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:24:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 
 Rogatien Merc wrote:D legendary hero wrote:people keep comparing the mass driver to the flaylock... the mass drive has a longer range and a bigger blast radius. thats why the splash damage is less. it covers at max proficiency 5m... your movement speed of the average suit is 5m so no one can escape the radius.
 but again two can play that game. if flaylocks are supposed to be "mini mass drivers" and be inferior in every regard, why are ARs better than HMGs?
 
 people say... flaylocks are secondaries and they arent supposed to be effective like a primary.... well gee by that logic ARs a light weapon should not in anyway be superior to an HMG an anti infantry HEAVY weapon. but then people scream BALANCE, because if the HMG where better than ARs it would be unbalanced.
 
 likewise, flaylocks are balanced in such a way to be effective side arms. not inferior but with a different role... like people claim about the AR verses the HMG.
 
 if flaylocks are nerfed, then every weapon that is superior to one of a higher level should be nerfed. simplely put an AR should never be better than a HMG at killing
 
 
 the point of te matter is: why is it that the flaylocks needed to be nerfed because they were good as secondaries and matching light weapons; but the HMG was nerfed and its a heavy weapon? basically secondary = light weapon, so you nerf secondary. then heavy weapon > light weapon, so you nerf heavy weapon. why?
 
 
 so right now AR > secondary; and AR > HMG... i just don't understand. please explain
 An AR is not a "mini-HMG" (I loled) ... and the AR is not > HMG if you don't suck and understand terrain. Just sayin. 
 hahaha actually it is.
 
 an AR is an Automatic rifle. most light machine guns are just ARs with a bigger magazine. the whole concept behind ARs came from HMGs down to LGMs. so yes, assault rifles that are fully automatic are small light machine guns. learn history.
 
 and the same can be said for flaylocks. flaylocks are not > ARs, if you know terrian and dnt strafe back and forthin the same 2m blast radius you dunce.
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        |  hackerzilla
 Defenders of the Helghast Dream
 
 142
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:24:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 
 Zekain Kade wrote:An lmg would be the big brother to the at. But we don't have those . LMGs in Dust are HMGs. Think bout it
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 443
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 19:29:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 
 hackerzilla wrote:You said "an AR should never be better than an HMG for killing". What you meant is an AR should never be better than an HMG at killing in close-close mid range.  
 exactly. and yet they are. and we speak up, show eveidence numbers... we get nothing from CCP. they this with the flaylocks happen and a month latter bame, NERF hammer.
 
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        |  CuuCH Crusher
 Commando Perkone
 Caldari State
 
 147
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 20:55:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 HMG and AR are both primary weapons, your logic is flawed.
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        |  Spademan
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 189
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 21:28:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
 If you want to compare things as stupidly as this, then you cant compare the AR with the HMG, going by your flawed logic, you should be comparing the HMG to the SMG and the AR to an as of yet not released gallente side arm.
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        |  RedRebelCork
 Ahrendee Mercenaries
 EoN.
 
 198
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 21:34:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
 Just abit? Not alot?
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        |  Cody Sietz
 Bullet Cluster
 
 599
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.23 21:50:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
 Heavy and light weapons are both mains.
 
 ARs have a smaller clip but are better at range. HMGs have a higher RoF, more ammo but suffer range range.
 
 Flaylock does everything the MD does but better and you can hold two of them.
 
 Case dismissed.
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 444
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 02:24:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
 
 CuuCH Crusher wrote:HMG and AR are both primary weapons, your logic is flawed.  
 
 AR is a light weapon
 
 HMG is a HEAVY weapon. your comment is invalid
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        |  DUST Fiend
 OSG Planetary Operations
 Covert Intervention
 
 5452
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 02:27:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
 Can you hold still for a minute?
 
 All that flailing around is making it difficult to drink your tears.
 
 :/
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 445
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 02:28:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
 
 Cody Sietz wrote:Heavy and light weapons are both mains.
 ARs have a smaller clip but are better at range. HMGs have a higher RoF, more ammo but suffer range range.
 
 Flaylock does everything the MD does but better and you can hold two of them.
 
 Case dismissed.
 
 
 the AR does only marginally less DPS than an HMG, has greater accuracy, faster reload, no dispersion, and greater range. there is no suit restriction, it requires less CPU/PG, has a greater damage per shot giving headshots greater significance, and much less recoil, there is no turn speed problem, and it never over heats.
 
 the AR does everything an HMG can do better. there is no advantage to the HMG over an AR.
 
 mass drive has a bigger blast radius, bigger clip, and higher dps... try again.
 
 OVER RULED.
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 445
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 02:29:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
 
 DUST Fiend wrote:Can you hold still for a minute?
 All that flailing around is making it difficult to drink your tears.
 
 :/
 
 ok sure (unnzips pants)
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        |  Xocoyol Zaraoul
 Superior Genetics
 
 886
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 02:33:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
 
 D legendary hero wrote:the AR does only marginally less DPS than an HMG 
 Basic AR DPS: 375
 Basic HMG DPS: 600
 
 Not sure I'd call that marginal
 
 The proto burst HMG with well over a thousand DPS is a pretty amusing weapon too, greatly underrated.
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        |  LT SHANKS
 Amarr Templars
 Amarr Empire
 
 277
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 02:44:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
 I honestly don't have much to complain about in terms of the HMG anymore. The damage and RoF seem fine. However, the lack of range and dispersion do not do the Heavy suit justice.
 
 My main concerns stem from the Heavy design itself. The turn and movement speeds are awful, but that's to be expected from a Heavy role. The problem is that the Heavy suit does not compliment the HMG in any way. A slow suit wielding a weapon with high dispersion and low range cannot be effective in any other area aside from its optimal range, but even then, the HMG Heavy can still be outclassed easily by the likes of an AR wielding medium frame.
 
 The concept of the Heavy makes sense, I'll admit that. However, there too many weaknesses in the Heavy that can be exploited.
 
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 446
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 08:06:00 -
          [21] - Quote 
 
 Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:D legendary hero wrote:the AR does only marginally less DPS than an HMG Basic AR DPS: 375 Basic HMG DPS: 600 Not sure I'd call that marginal The proto burst HMG with well over a thousand DPS is a pretty amusing weapon too, greatly underrated. 
 militia AR does 425dps
 basic HMG does 600 dps
 
 thats a 28.5% difference. its only marginally better than an AR, with 5 times the drawbacks in every category.
 
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 446
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 08:08:00 -
          [22] - Quote 
 
 LT SHANKS wrote:I honestly don't have much to complain about in terms of the HMG anymore. The damage and RoF seem fine. However, the lack of range and dispersion do not do the Heavy suit justice.
 My main concerns stem from the Heavy design itself. The turn and movement speeds are awful, but that's to be expected from a Heavy role. The problem is that the Heavy suit does not compliment the HMG in any way. A slow suit wielding a weapon with high dispersion and low range cannot be effective in any other area aside from its optimal range, but even then, the HMG Heavy can still be outclassed easily by the likes of an AR wielding medium frame.
 
 The concept of the Heavy makes sense, I'll admit that. However, there too many weaknesses in the Heavy that can be exploited.
 
 
 
 exactly.
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        |  Kane Fyea
 DUST University
 Ivy League
 
 1425
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 08:11:00 -
          [23] - Quote 
 You do know HMGs aren't the larger version of the AR right? SMG = Sidearm variant of HMG and LMG (We don't have any LMGs) = Light variant of HMG.
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 446
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 08:14:00 -
          [24] - Quote 
 ^^smh
 
 im tired of repeating myself...
 
 infact by this logic, the HMG should be even that much more effective and owerful than an AR in several ways.. but its not.
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        |  Jathniel
 G I A N T
 EoN.
 
 691
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 08:32:00 -
          [25] - Quote 
 I've recently picked HMGs back up again, after a 5 month hiatus.
 The optimal range adjustment for all weapons has made the HMG a seriously deadly weapon in a match.
 
 After using snipers , ARs, and scramblers for so long, I can honestly say that the HMG is a totally superior cqc weapon to the AR; and with the range adjustment, the HMG will out-dps an AR at mid range (30M+) as well, (provided only 1 AR is shooting at you.)
 If you stay away from 60m+ engagements, and you have good aim, the HMG will win *EVERY* time vs. the AR, 1 on 1. You're only going to start fussing the AR if you start taking on 2 or more Duvolles... so don't do that, not smart.
 
 But I can also say, that the Flaylock is very powerful vs. the HMG in cqc. A single flaylock eats up my heavy's HP in moments before i even have a chance to ADS, followed up by a quick tap from the AR or Mass Driver to finish me off, the flaylock does crazy amounts of damage VERY quickly.
 
 When someone is deciding to do their opening shots with the flaylock(secondary) INSTEAD of the mass driver(primary)... I think you have a balancing problem, and the mass driver IS balanced now, it's in a good spot. If they are running two core flaylocks with maybe sidearm damage mods, they will wipe out tons of health since every flaylock round is hitting as hard as a sniper rifle....
 
 Imagine... a sniper rifle round with splash damage.... Yeeeeeeaaaahhh....... The only weapons that should get away with that kind of splash damage are the forge guns and grenades. Hitting as hard as a sniper rifle... with just your splash damage. lol
 You cheating little ***** with your bullshit guns **** you. lol :)
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        |  D legendary hero
 THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
 
 446
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.07.24 08:37:00 -
          [26] - Quote 
 ^^you obviously havent bee facing people with tons of shields, or the bunny hops with your HMG. they are impossible to track. and 20m engagements the AR wins. 10ms with crazy strafing AR wins, 9-1m AR wins unless directly infront of you.
 
 9-1m Ar wins if they have crazy shields.
 
 ive done it, ive had it done to me. the AR > HMG
 
 but, this is ok by CCP standards.
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