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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
708
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 10:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
To what skill level players are we wanting to balance the game for? I have heard many people say we should balance for the top players. I think that this is incorrect, we should aim for the average player. I see it like this. Like with most things in life - according to statistics - people fall into a Bell curve withe top players on the right and the bottom players on the left. This leaves the average players in the middle of the curve (or at the peak) and they are who we should balance for. Top players will always be in top because they have personal skill that gear doesn't make up for. The bottom players are bad and no amount of gear will make them better.
If we balance for the middle 65%, people playing will be happy. An average player like me will feel like they have something to contribute, top players will not really notice and the bottom rung can't compete anyways.
I was just wanting to know what you fellow mercs thought about it. The best and worst part of the forums is the cancerous rot that it spews. Without it we would get no where fast. I also want to take this time to say thanks to all the people who post (it means you care) even if it is just to troll. Failures and mistakes are the only way to learn and out trolls know how to point this out like no other group does. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2943
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 10:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'll just leave this here. |
TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
140
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
A balance in objects provides balances to all players. No one side should get better treatment based solely how much they cry foul on the forums. example, the scrambler is one of the most balanced weapons in the game. yet shield based suits say this weapon is OP because it eats through their shields a little faster than other AR or sidearms, excluding the flaylock. on the other hand armor based suits say this weapon is ok and may seem a little under powered. This is how it should be for everything from infantry to vehicles. I am sure this is what CCP had planned but they strayed from the course.
however, there is no way to balance skill. the best thing you can do is try to keep people with the same amount of skill points and/or war points relatively close to each other with matchmaking. |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
763
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll just leave this here. also this |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
709
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll just leave this here.
Even better than I could type it. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
740
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll just leave this here.
I often wonder if CCP watches these videos and then does everything these videos say not to do. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
324
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
I suppose the answer would be that the issue is complex. I would not like to see high skill players laying waste to everything because they find the weapon balance to be too easy but neither do I want to have the weapons etc so hard to use because they were balanced based on these high skilled players.
My instinct would be to balance based on the skill level of the majority but also create an additional connected environment, let's call it the competition level, where everything is balanced for high skills.
High Sec - learning environment and casual games Low Sec - casual play and FW Null Sec - PC and competitive egame environment
You will never get a real balance but you need to identify your revenue source and cater to them, I guess. |
Your Absolut End
Neanderthal Nation
130
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:To what skill level players are we wanting to balance the game for? I have heard many people say we should balance for the top players. I think that this is incorrect, we should aim for the average player. I see it like this. Like with most things in life - according to statistics - people fall into a Bell curve withe top players on the right and the bottom players on the left. This leaves the average players in the middle of the curve (or at the peak) and they are who we should balance for. Top players will always be in top because they have personal skill that gear doesn't make up for. The bottom players are bad and no amount of gear will make them better.
If we balance for the middle 65%, people playing will be happy. An average player like me will feel like they have something to contribute, top players will not really notice and the bottom rung can't compete anyways.
I was just wanting to know what you fellow mercs thought about it. The best and worst part of the forums is the cancerous rot that it spews. Without it we would get no where fast. I also want to take this time to say thanks to all the people who post (it means you care) even if it is just to troll. Failures and mistakes are the only way to learn and out trolls know how to point this out like no other group does.
You forget one thing, and unfortunately thats the big picture:
Dust is NOT about pubmatches. It's about PC. And there you see the big black guys. So if the game is meant to be pplaced focused on PC where everybody rolls out their best suits, why the heck should we try to balance the game on the average playerbase?
Dust is a hardcore game, if you want the EZ mode search for a different game.
Anyways, I understand and respect your opinion, and I know what you aim for, but like I said, the big picture behind dust is PC not Pub... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2949
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Cosgar wrote:I'll just leave this here. Even better than I could type it. Pretty much.
So after re-watching that video again for probably the 20th time, I just realized something: The AR is the FOO of Dust 514.
This isn't another anti-AR thing so hear me out. By design, the AR is familiar to anyone that plays an FPS. 3/4 starter fits have a MLT AR, so it's the first weapon you're going to see and will probably be using it quite a lot. If you stick with the AR and skill into it, it only gets better with the GEK-38 and eventually the Duvolle. But the problem is that it's too effective against anything else to make a player want to change their tactics. A bunch of guys with ARs can blob together dakka dakka the same target at once and pretty much pub stomp all day. Other weapons like the HMG, MD, Laser, Shotgun, and the ScR are supposed to be there to make an AR user change up their strategy and adjust accordingly. But instead of that, an AR can pretty much plow through just about anything and everything with little to no disadvantage, which is pretty boring.
I've used the AR since Replication and really didn't start using other weapons until Chrome until I discovered how fun the MD, SMG, and Shotgun were. Different tactics, strategy and most important of all different strengths and weaknesses. As of right now, the AR is the battlefield workhorse, but it's too effective for it's own good because it diminishes incentive to experiment with the different weapons, all of which should have some kind of situational advantage over it. I don't know exactly when CCP is going to split up the AR into its different variants, but hopefully it'll be soon, because this is a problem if I'm right. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
740
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:To what skill level players are we wanting to balance the game for? I have heard many people say we should balance for the top players. I think that this is incorrect, we should aim for the average player. I see it like this. Like with most things in life - according to statistics - people fall into a Bell curve withe top players on the right and the bottom players on the left. This leaves the average players in the middle of the curve (or at the peak) and they are who we should balance for. Top players will always be in top because they have personal skill that gear doesn't make up for. The bottom players are bad and no amount of gear will make them better.
If we balance for the middle 65%, people playing will be happy. An average player like me will feel like they have something to contribute, top players will not really notice and the bottom rung can't compete anyways.
I was just wanting to know what you fellow mercs thought about it. The best and worst part of the forums is the cancerous rot that it spews. Without it we would get no where fast. I also want to take this time to say thanks to all the people who post (it means you care) even if it is just to troll. Failures and mistakes are the only way to learn and out trolls know how to point this out like no other group does. You forget one thing, and unfortunately thats the big picture: Dust is NOT about pubmatches. It's about PC. And there you see the big black guys. So if the game is meant to be pplaced focused on PC where everybody rolls out their best suits, why the heck should we try to balance the game on the average playerbase? Dust is a hardcore game, if you want the EZ mode search for a different game. Anyways, I understand and respect your opinion, and I know what you aim for, but like I said, the big picture behind dust is PC not Pub...
Quote:Dust is a hardcore game
Lulz |
|
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
763
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
I transcribed what I think was the best part of that video:
Quote:...All too often the developer will put in a batch of other strategies or techniques that are slightly more powerful than the [easy access intro strategies] and that require a lot more skill to perform (technique). And theyGÇÖll simply continue expecting to keep climbing up this power ladder because ability B is indisputably stronger than ability A. TheyGÇÖll expect the player to abandon their initial strategy as soon as a more powerful object comes along. But this is a fallacy. If ability GÇÿBGÇÖ is 10% stronger than ability GÇÿAGÇÖ but 3x harder to execute, then ability GÇÿBGÇÖ is only better if you are a machine. This leads to players blindly continuing to do the easier tactic for as long as its effective....
It goes on to speculate that if players don't have a gradual skill (technique) progression, they eventually quit because of an overwhelming difficulty spike to get to the next level.
The biggest key toward getting marginal advantages in DUST IMO, is squad play. Specializations are the biggest advantages, and vanilla fits are completely optimal. You can be a frontlines super tank fit, if you know you have some heavier hitting players backing you up and a logi ready to heal you. If you are making a team of 6 players, you can get greater max dps and max eHP through specialization, than you would through all taking caldari logi AR players. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
712
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:I suppose the answer would be that the issue is complex. I would not like to see high skill players laying waste to everything because they find the weapon balance to be too easy but neither do I want to have the weapons etc so hard to use because they were balanced based on these high skilled players.
My instinct would be to balance based on the skill level of the majority but also create an additional connected environment, let's call it the competition level, where everything is balanced for high skills.
High Sec - learning environment and casual games Low Sec - casual play and FW Null Sec - PC and competitive egame environment
You will never get a real balance but you need to identify your revenue source and cater to them, I guess.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070 |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
712
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:To what skill level players are we wanting to balance the game for? I have heard many people say we should balance for the top players. I think that this is incorrect, we should aim for the average player. I see it like this. Like with most things in life - according to statistics - people fall into a Bell curve withe top players on the right and the bottom players on the left. This leaves the average players in the middle of the curve (or at the peak) and they are who we should balance for. Top players will always be in top because they have personal skill that gear doesn't make up for. The bottom players are bad and no amount of gear will make them better.
If we balance for the middle 65%, people playing will be happy. An average player like me will feel like they have something to contribute, top players will not really notice and the bottom rung can't compete anyways.
I was just wanting to know what you fellow mercs thought about it. The best and worst part of the forums is the cancerous rot that it spews. Without it we would get no where fast. I also want to take this time to say thanks to all the people who post (it means you care) even if it is just to troll. Failures and mistakes are the only way to learn and out trolls know how to point this out like no other group does. You forget one thing, and unfortunately thats the big picture: Dust is NOT about pubmatches. It's about PC. And there you see the big black guys. So if the game is meant to be pplaced focused on PC where everybody rolls out their best suits, why the heck should we try to balance the game on the average playerbase? Dust is a hardcore game, if you want the EZ mode search for a different game. Anyways, I understand and respect your opinion, and I know what you aim for, but like I said, the big picture behind dust is PC not Pub...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070 |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3359
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 12:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Balancing a game around the higher levels provides at least an approximation of balance at lower levels as well. Balancing the game around the middle can result in either or both ends of the scale being unbalanced. Balancing the game around the lowest tiers will usually result in increasing imbalances as you advance further up the skill tree.
Pretty sure balancing around the top level is the least stupid option. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2953
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 12:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Balancing a game around the higher levels provides at least an approximation of balance at lower levels as well. Balancing the game around the middle can result in either or both ends of the scale being unbalanced. Balancing the game around the lowest tiers will usually result in increasing imbalances as you advance further up the skill tree.
Pretty sure balancing around the top level is the least stupid option. Quite the opposite. If you balance towards the highest skilled players, new players would just get mauled repeatedly. Remember how relevant fighting games were before Street Fighter IV? The Marvel vs Capcom series balanced accordingly to the pros, cutting off newer players from having a chance and literally killed arcades before consoles even had a chance to. You should skill for newer players while giving the pros a fighting chance. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
259
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 12:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:
Dust is NOT about pubmatches. It's about PC. And there you see the big black guys.
What the...?
Quote: Dust is a hardcore game
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lollol lol lol lollol lol lol lollol lol lol lollol lol lol lollol lol lol lol |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
717
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 12:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Records are set by the top people in anything but the average person does a majority of the work. With weapons and gear tailored to only 10% of the population makes 90% of the population mad. Top players want a challenge and by balancing gear to the average player it gives top players a opponent that can hang with them. Average players make up a majority of the player base and we shouldn't ignore them. I agree with the video talking about balance, if you are a top player then the weapon you choose does need to be more difficult to use because top players do want a challenge. Also, if the items are geared more towards the top then the lower class players will not be able to even step out of the merc quarters without getting stomped. The balance needs to come more from the center and spike out in specialized roles that are too advanced for the bottom rung and difficult to use for the average Joe. Top level specialized weapons give the end game feeling to weapons that seem awkward or even stupid to anyone but the best. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3361
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Balancing a game around the higher levels provides at least an approximation of balance at lower levels as well. Balancing the game around the middle can result in either or both ends of the scale being unbalanced. Balancing the game around the lowest tiers will usually result in increasing imbalances as you advance further up the skill tree.
Pretty sure balancing around the top level is the least stupid option. Quite the opposite. If you balance towards the highest skilled players, new players would just get mauled repeatedly. Remember how relevant fighting games were before Street Fighter IV? The Marvel vs Capcom series balanced accordingly to the pros, cutting off newer players from having a chance and literally killed arcades before consoles even had a chance to. You should skill for newer players while giving the pros a fighting chance. No matter what you do, you either have a purely luck-based game, or skilled players have an advantage.
Skill should ALWAYS be an advantage in FPS games. ALWAYS. A-L-W-A-Y-S. Do I need to say this in more ways or do you understand where I'm coming from with this?
With a skilled player against an unskilled player, the skilled player should be expected to win more often than not, regardless of equipment. With two equally skilled high-level players, the one who has the better equipment for the situation should have an advantage. For example, if you have a great Shotgunnner against a great AR user, the Shotgunner should win if they're in a CQC-friendly environment, and the AR guy should win in open spaces. If you give the Shotgun to a total noob, and put him up against that same great AR player, the great AR guy will probably win more often than not even in the CQC encounter, because he'll be able to force conditions where he can use his range advantage in spite of the surroundings.
If the gear is balanced at the top level, scaling it back is easy, and at each tier, the gear will remain at least relatively well balanced. Balance variations from scaling down are almost always less severe than when you scale the same principles up from the lower levels.
If you start at the top and scale back, the tweaks needed at the lowest level should be less severe than if you start from the middle and work up.
Looking at Advanced gear, if that was used as the tier for initial game balance, the imbalances at Militia level are likely to be less severe than the imbalances at Prototype level, even though Militia gear is two steps down and Prototype is only a single tier above the balance point.
If the game was balanced around Standard gear, the potential imbalance at Prototype level is FAR worse than the potential imbalance at Militia level would be when balancing the game for Prototype gear.
The trouble is that DUST can't provide meaningful progression without giving the high-SP character better equipment, and that in turn means that experienced players get a gear advantage on top of the skill they've gained from playing the game. Highly-skilled players have skill AND equipment advantages, and at the moment, there isn't much being done to help new players ease into the game without being stomped by players running full proto. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2962
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Cosgar wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Balancing a game around the higher levels provides at least an approximation of balance at lower levels as well. Balancing the game around the middle can result in either or both ends of the scale being unbalanced. Balancing the game around the lowest tiers will usually result in increasing imbalances as you advance further up the skill tree.
Pretty sure balancing around the top level is the least stupid option. Quite the opposite. If you balance towards the highest skilled players, new players would just get mauled repeatedly. Remember how relevant fighting games were before Street Fighter IV? The Marvel vs Capcom series balanced accordingly to the pros, cutting off newer players from having a chance and literally killed arcades before consoles even had a chance to. You should skill for newer players while giving the pros a fighting chance. No matter what you do, you either have a purely luck-based game, or skilled players have an advantage. Skill should ALWAYS be an advantage in FPS games. ALWAYS. A-L-W-A-Y-S. Do I need to say this in more ways or do you understand where I'm coming from with this? With a skilled player against an unskilled player, the skilled player should be expected to win more often than not, regardless of equipment. With two equally skilled high-level players, the one who has the better equipment for the situation should have an advantage. For example, if you have a great Shotgunnner against a great AR user, the Shotgunner should win if they're in a CQC-friendly environment, and the AR guy should win in open spaces. If you give the Shotgun to a total noob, and put him up against that same great AR player, the great AR guy will probably win more often than not even in the CQC encounter, because he'll be able to force conditions where he can use his range advantage in spite of the surroundings. If the gear is balanced at the top level, scaling it back is easy, and at each tier, the gear will remain at least relatively well balanced. Balance variations from scaling down are almost always less severe than when you scale the same principles up from the lower levels. If you start at the top and scale back, the tweaks needed at the lowest level should be less severe than if you start from the middle and work up. Looking at Advanced gear, if that was used as the tier for initial game balance, the imbalances at Militia level are likely to be less severe than the imbalances at Prototype level, even though Militia gear is two steps down and Prototype is only a single tier above the balance point. If the game was balanced around Standard gear, the potential imbalance at Prototype level is FAR worse than the potential imbalance at Militia level would be when balancing the game for Prototype gear. The trouble is that DUST can't provide meaningful progression without giving the high-SP character better equipment, and that in turn means that experienced players get a gear advantage on top of the skill they've gained from playing the game. Highly-skilled players have skill AND equipment advantages, and at the moment, there isn't much being done to help new players ease into the game without being stomped by players running full proto. Your bottom portion just proved my point. Balancing for the higher tier stops new players from getting a chance to learn to get better, let alone want to play. Imagine if CoD didn't have the n00b tube to level the playing field between rookies and pros. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
720
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
I am not talking balancing around the power of the gear. I am only talking about player skills.
Weapons and gear should be balanced by advanced level stuff and the higher level items should be difficult to master but their rewards are better. The only thing that really bothered me about the TAC was the range. It should do high damage at a good rof within a reasonable range but when no other light weapon except a SN can touch it then it is broken. This game is built around hard counters to everything and no weapon being supreme. The levels of weapons should reflect their specialization and offer a slight improvement of the previous level. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
2963
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:I am not talking balancing around the power of the gear. I am only talking about player skills.
Weapons and gear should be balanced by advanced level stuff and the higher level items should be difficult to master but their rewards are better. The only thing that really bothered me about the TAC was the range. It should do high damage at a good rof within a reasonable range but when no other light weapon except a SN can touch it then it is broken. This game is built around hard counters to everything and no weapon being supreme. The levels of weapons should reflect their specialization and offer a slight improvement of the previous level. You hit the nail on the head. One thing I noticed about the TAC AR spam were the occasional people I came across that would make calculated shots vs spamming shots in my general direction. Most of which, still use the TAC AR to this day. The others I'm more afraid of because they learned how awesome the ScR is using a charged shot and 0 recoil. Single shot weapons will always be deadly in the hands of skilled players, wait until we see all the rage posts about the Gauss Rifle. I'm calling it now. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
706
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Balancing in DUST should happen in PC and not pub matches where you face a bunch of retards who dont know which end the bullet comes out of |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3362
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
The problem is that the sense of progression in the game NEEDS to be there for it to be true to what DUST is meant to be.
What we need is more matchmaking options. The academy is a good start, but we need a more flexible system. The devs have done a good job in reducing the previously huge gaps between higher- and lower-tier gear, and the same has been done with reduced benefits from passive skills, but it would be stupid to balance everything out to a basic level.
The argument SHOULDN'T be that starting gear should be able to compete with max-level upgraded equipment in equally-skilled hands. That would be stupid. What needs to be done is to allow players with lower SP count to fight against other similarly-leveled players.
They could divide the game into several matchmaking layers. When you first start off, there's the 2 million SP or 10,000 WP limit where you can only fight Academy battles. After that, you get to compete "properly" - but as your SP count rises, you get locked out of the lower-tier matchmaking options. You can choose to fight at your level within the lowest SP-based matchmaking tier, or you can step it up a little and try to compete against people with potentially more SP than you have. As you skill up higher, you have less options, but because lower-level players CAN throw themselves in the deep end, and because higher-level players wanting to learn a new playstyle will have to compete on your level, there will still be gear imbalances which let the high-tier players bring their shiny toys and show them off against weaker opponents. |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
772
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
The best thing the game could do is provide some kind of benefit for old players to group up with/train/skill up with/help new players so that they could close that technical skill gap ASAP.
I think the CPM gets this. Balancing/mechanics/core gameplay etc, can only go so far to give everyone the balance that is fair. What remains needed are tools for the corporation/player role in Eve called 'enablers'. Enablers are people who try to grow other players in the game and consistantly provide content to the communities that they manage.
Social tools, training environments, recommended skill training certificates/queues, linked/recommended fits, reimbursement programs, player made tutorials, |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
721
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Balancing in DUST should happen in PC and not pub matches where you face a bunch of retards who dont know which end the bullet comes out of
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070
Balance should come from every part of the game not just 10% or less of the content. The problem is stagnation due to the lack of content and burnout from grinding. The SP grind hurts DUST more than people think, we have it because FPS players want instant gratification and we do it by giving them SP based on actions not time. I could play to cap every week but that doesn't prove I am good. Good players wouldn't care about SP over time because they can win with any gun.
Everyone would say I am wrong but if this game had been time based from the beginning then we would have twice the number of people we have now if not more. That should get someone raging somewhere. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
721
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 13:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:The best thing the game could do is provide some kind of benefit for old players to group up with/train/skill up with/help new players so that they could close that technical skill gap ASAP.
I think the CPM gets this. Balancing/mechanics/core gameplay etc, can only go so far to give everyone the balance that is fair. What remains needed are tools for the corporation/player role in Eve called 'enablers'. Enablers are people who try to grow other players in the game and consistantly provide content to the communities that they manage.
Social tools, training environments, recommended skill training certificates/queues, linked/recommended fits, reimbursement programs, player made tutorials,
We have and need all of those things. Gamers think this is a game that you can dominate on the first day and they are sadly mistaken. The game pushes you into the community but it is up to the players to act on it. There are plenty of noob friendly corps that train people and give advice but it is up to players to do it not the game. CCP isn't know for hand hold, maybe a Viking thing I don't know but I do know that they don't do it well. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
706
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 14:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Balancing in DUST should happen in PC and not pub matches where you face a bunch of retards who dont know which end the bullet comes out of https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070Balance should come from every part of the game not just 10% or less of the content. The problem is stagnation due to the lack of content and burnout from grinding. The SP grind hurts DUST more than people think, we have it because FPS players want instant gratification and we do it by giving them SP based on actions not time. I could play to cap every week but that doesn't prove I am good. Good players wouldn't care about SP over time because they can win with any gun. Everyone would say I am wrong but if this game had been time based from the beginning then we would have twice the number of people we have now if not more. That should get someone raging somewhere.
We need more players 1st
PC is more accurate representation of what goes down generally
Pub match generally 2/3 std AV dudes to take out a basic tank but its a pub match so they can be bad or the tank can be bad or some can turn up with milita
In PC 1 proto per basic tank so just scale it up 2/3 proto per proto tank = balance since proto is used alot in PC |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
743
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 21:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The problem is that the sense of progression in the game NEEDS to be there for it to be true to what DUST is meant to be.
What we need is more matchmaking options. The academy is a good start, but we need a more flexible system. The devs have done a good job in reducing the previously huge gaps between higher- and lower-tier gear, and the same has been done with reduced benefits from passive skills, but it would be stupid to balance everything out to a basic level.
The argument SHOULDN'T be that starting gear should be able to compete with max-level upgraded equipment in equally-skilled hands. That would be stupid. What needs to be done is to allow players with lower SP count to fight against other similarly-leveled players.
They could divide the game into several matchmaking layers. When you first start off, there's the 2 million SP or 10,000 WP limit where you can only fight Academy battles. After that, you get to compete "properly" - but as your SP count rises, you get locked out of the lower-tier matchmaking options. You can choose to fight at your level within the lowest SP-based matchmaking tier, or you can step it up a little and try to compete against people with potentially more SP than you have. As you skill up higher, you have less options, but because lower-level players CAN throw themselves in the deep end, and because higher-level players wanting to learn a new playstyle will have to compete on your level, there will still be gear imbalances which let the high-tier players bring their shiny toys and show them off against weaker opponents.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070 |
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