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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
708
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Posted - 2013.07.22 10:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
To what skill level players are we wanting to balance the game for? I have heard many people say we should balance for the top players. I think that this is incorrect, we should aim for the average player. I see it like this. Like with most things in life - according to statistics - people fall into a Bell curve withe top players on the right and the bottom players on the left. This leaves the average players in the middle of the curve (or at the peak) and they are who we should balance for. Top players will always be in top because they have personal skill that gear doesn't make up for. The bottom players are bad and no amount of gear will make them better.
If we balance for the middle 65%, people playing will be happy. An average player like me will feel like they have something to contribute, top players will not really notice and the bottom rung can't compete anyways.
I was just wanting to know what you fellow mercs thought about it. The best and worst part of the forums is the cancerous rot that it spews. Without it we would get no where fast. I also want to take this time to say thanks to all the people who post (it means you care) even if it is just to troll. Failures and mistakes are the only way to learn and out trolls know how to point this out like no other group does. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
709
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'll just leave this here.
Even better than I could type it. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
712
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:I suppose the answer would be that the issue is complex. I would not like to see high skill players laying waste to everything because they find the weapon balance to be too easy but neither do I want to have the weapons etc so hard to use because they were balanced based on these high skilled players.
My instinct would be to balance based on the skill level of the majority but also create an additional connected environment, let's call it the competition level, where everything is balanced for high skills.
High Sec - learning environment and casual games Low Sec - casual play and FW Null Sec - PC and competitive egame environment
You will never get a real balance but you need to identify your revenue source and cater to them, I guess.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070 |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
712
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Posted - 2013.07.22 11:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:To what skill level players are we wanting to balance the game for? I have heard many people say we should balance for the top players. I think that this is incorrect, we should aim for the average player. I see it like this. Like with most things in life - according to statistics - people fall into a Bell curve withe top players on the right and the bottom players on the left. This leaves the average players in the middle of the curve (or at the peak) and they are who we should balance for. Top players will always be in top because they have personal skill that gear doesn't make up for. The bottom players are bad and no amount of gear will make them better.
If we balance for the middle 65%, people playing will be happy. An average player like me will feel like they have something to contribute, top players will not really notice and the bottom rung can't compete anyways.
I was just wanting to know what you fellow mercs thought about it. The best and worst part of the forums is the cancerous rot that it spews. Without it we would get no where fast. I also want to take this time to say thanks to all the people who post (it means you care) even if it is just to troll. Failures and mistakes are the only way to learn and out trolls know how to point this out like no other group does. You forget one thing, and unfortunately thats the big picture: Dust is NOT about pubmatches. It's about PC. And there you see the big black guys. So if the game is meant to be pplaced focused on PC where everybody rolls out their best suits, why the heck should we try to balance the game on the average playerbase? Dust is a hardcore game, if you want the EZ mode search for a different game. Anyways, I understand and respect your opinion, and I know what you aim for, but like I said, the big picture behind dust is PC not Pub...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070 |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
717
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Posted - 2013.07.22 12:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Records are set by the top people in anything but the average person does a majority of the work. With weapons and gear tailored to only 10% of the population makes 90% of the population mad. Top players want a challenge and by balancing gear to the average player it gives top players a opponent that can hang with them. Average players make up a majority of the player base and we shouldn't ignore them. I agree with the video talking about balance, if you are a top player then the weapon you choose does need to be more difficult to use because top players do want a challenge. Also, if the items are geared more towards the top then the lower class players will not be able to even step out of the merc quarters without getting stomped. The balance needs to come more from the center and spike out in specialized roles that are too advanced for the bottom rung and difficult to use for the average Joe. Top level specialized weapons give the end game feeling to weapons that seem awkward or even stupid to anyone but the best. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
720
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Posted - 2013.07.22 13:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am not talking balancing around the power of the gear. I am only talking about player skills.
Weapons and gear should be balanced by advanced level stuff and the higher level items should be difficult to master but their rewards are better. The only thing that really bothered me about the TAC was the range. It should do high damage at a good rof within a reasonable range but when no other light weapon except a SN can touch it then it is broken. This game is built around hard counters to everything and no weapon being supreme. The levels of weapons should reflect their specialization and offer a slight improvement of the previous level. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
721
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Posted - 2013.07.22 13:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Balancing in DUST should happen in PC and not pub matches where you face a bunch of retards who dont know which end the bullet comes out of
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070
Balance should come from every part of the game not just 10% or less of the content. The problem is stagnation due to the lack of content and burnout from grinding. The SP grind hurts DUST more than people think, we have it because FPS players want instant gratification and we do it by giving them SP based on actions not time. I could play to cap every week but that doesn't prove I am good. Good players wouldn't care about SP over time because they can win with any gun.
Everyone would say I am wrong but if this game had been time based from the beginning then we would have twice the number of people we have now if not more. That should get someone raging somewhere. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
721
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Posted - 2013.07.22 13:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:The best thing the game could do is provide some kind of benefit for old players to group up with/train/skill up with/help new players so that they could close that technical skill gap ASAP.
I think the CPM gets this. Balancing/mechanics/core gameplay etc, can only go so far to give everyone the balance that is fair. What remains needed are tools for the corporation/player role in Eve called 'enablers'. Enablers are people who try to grow other players in the game and consistantly provide content to the communities that they manage.
Social tools, training environments, recommended skill training certificates/queues, linked/recommended fits, reimbursement programs, player made tutorials,
We have and need all of those things. Gamers think this is a game that you can dominate on the first day and they are sadly mistaken. The game pushes you into the community but it is up to the players to act on it. There are plenty of noob friendly corps that train people and give advice but it is up to players to do it not the game. CCP isn't know for hand hold, maybe a Viking thing I don't know but I do know that they don't do it well. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
743
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Posted - 2013.07.22 21:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The problem is that the sense of progression in the game NEEDS to be there for it to be true to what DUST is meant to be.
What we need is more matchmaking options. The academy is a good start, but we need a more flexible system. The devs have done a good job in reducing the previously huge gaps between higher- and lower-tier gear, and the same has been done with reduced benefits from passive skills, but it would be stupid to balance everything out to a basic level.
The argument SHOULDN'T be that starting gear should be able to compete with max-level upgraded equipment in equally-skilled hands. That would be stupid. What needs to be done is to allow players with lower SP count to fight against other similarly-leveled players.
They could divide the game into several matchmaking layers. When you first start off, there's the 2 million SP or 10,000 WP limit where you can only fight Academy battles. After that, you get to compete "properly" - but as your SP count rises, you get locked out of the lower-tier matchmaking options. You can choose to fight at your level within the lowest SP-based matchmaking tier, or you can step it up a little and try to compete against people with potentially more SP than you have. As you skill up higher, you have less options, but because lower-level players CAN throw themselves in the deep end, and because higher-level players wanting to learn a new playstyle will have to compete on your level, there will still be gear imbalances which let the high-tier players bring their shiny toys and show them off against weaker opponents.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050070#post1050070 |
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