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Syther Shadows
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
357
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
2Bee Smith wrote:Iyllaria Dai wrote:2Bee Smith wrote:First of all-- *Respec. Learn to spell
Second of all, quit begging for one. The only time there should be a respec is when theres a MAJOR game-changing patch *there's What?
First of ccp said there will NEVER be a respec again.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1131
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 06:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Syther Shadows wrote:2Bee Smith wrote:Iyllaria Dai wrote:2Bee Smith wrote:First of all-- *Respec. Learn to spell
Second of all, quit begging for one. The only time there should be a respec is when theres a MAJOR game-changing patch *there's What? First of ccp said there will NEVER be a respec again.
Source? |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
204
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 06:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP.
SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way.
Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed.
Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences.
Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent.
Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game. flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner. Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time?
The problem is respecs and 3x sp week.
We were all given a respec in may ( is that when you looked at cal logi went DAMN THAT'S GOOD an got one?)
Then the scrambler an faylocks came out an we had the option to apply for optional respec.
Did you do this an get cal logi then?
Since then everyone went cal logi an faylock then we had 2 triple sp weeks.
After the second 3x sp WE HAD THE PROBLEM!
Nerf logi nerd faylock
It gave everyone the sp an the ability to change their minds an skill up to create Fotm
Hence if they give respecs before things in the game are properly fixed we will have the same problem with different suits an weapons but for now everyone's gotta make due am hold their horses!
It will probably happen one way or another in the future so I'm sorry to say but;
Man up!
All you cal logis just take it for a bit everyone else has, especially scouts with this damn stamina nerf an strafe shyt!
Take a number, everything I use with my 14000000 sp is BROKEN!
Your all just gonna have to take the hit on the chin an stop looking like a bunch of spoiled brats that wanna take the ball an go home cuz the bigger kid got picked to be on the team with the hot chick!
So with all due respect stop acting like little bi:7(/-/3$! |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
689
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP.
SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way.
Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed.
Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences.
Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent.
Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game. flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner. Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time?
You proved my point. Nothing can be balanced if the game is in constant flux, doublely so if respecs are given out like candy. This is how CCP works, we all knew it or should have learned it a long time ago. To have meaning balance we first have to have a baseline and reallocating SP ruins the baseline. |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
233
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Posted - 2013.07.22 06:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
2Bee Smith wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Let me guess... you're completely unaffected by the changes presented in 1.3?
Easy to post things like this when its not you who's affected. No, I'm not affected but that isn't not the point. They aren't flipping the tables on you. Losing some PG and your bonuses isn't the end of the world. You knew the Cal Logi was too powerful so CCP is simply re-balancing it.
Yo get good non factor. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1131
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 07:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP.
SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way.
Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed.
Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences.
Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent.
Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game. flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner. Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time? You proved my point. Nothing can be balanced if the game is in constant flux, doublely so if respecs are given out like candy. This is how CCP works, we all knew it or should have learned it a long time ago. To have meaning balance we first have to have a baseline and reallocating SP ruins the baseline.
Its honestly quite the opposite.
How long was the flaylock out before people started calling it OP? Almost two months?
And even after it was finally found to be OP, a lot of people still wouldn't spec into it, knowing the SP would be wasted come 1.3 after CCP drops the nerf hammer 9000 on it.
Reallocations have nothing to do with a meaningful baseline and in fact, FOTM chasing would technically be beneficial to rebalancing everything.
If you could respec at any time... how many people you think we'd see using cal logis and flaylocks? Probably close to everyone. This would help CCP see exactly which items needed rebalancing.
The reason they can't rebalance quickly is two-fold.
First this system inhibits quick specialization into weapons... so for most people it takes 2-3 weeks just to get the prototype variant and a couple points of proficiency, this throws off metrics already. They also have to divert SP away from their already planned path of progession, causing certain people who would use a weapon to not use it, as they don't have the spare SP for it.
Next, there is a 2 month lag time before CCP can even implement a fix to anything. First they have to recognize it, and then they have to implement it two patches from now (as they are now always content locked on the current patch).
Imagine how many scouts there would be in this game if you could have respecs? Probably a lot fewer, the fact that they have to 'live with their choices' when the scout they are using now is not the scout they skilled into in 1.1 is causing bias in the wrong way, making it look like there are more scouts than there should be and causing ccp to think there isn't as much of a problem with scouts as there actually is.
How about tankers? Could you imagine how many fewer tankers there would be right now if they could spec out of tanks? No they are forced to 'live with their decision' even though tanks are receiving a huge nerf 'in a future update'. Should they have seen the armor rep nerf coming like cal logis and chosen accordingly?
The only way CCP can get any sort of meaningful data is from QQers on the forums. And we all can see how well thats working out  .
So no.. I don't see how refusing respecs hurts anything. Maybe you can explain a little better how refusing respecs establishes a better baseline? All it really does is force people like OZAROW to deal with be screwed over by unnecessarily implemented mechanics cause he 'made a choice and has to live with it'.
Right now there is only one way of specing out of your current choices... and that's quitting the game. Seems bad for business to me? |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
205
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 07:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP.
SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way.
Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed.
Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences.
Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent.
Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game. flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner. Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time? You proved my point. Nothing can be balanced if the game is in constant flux, doublely so if respecs are given out like candy. This is how CCP works, we all knew it or should have learned it a long time ago. To have meaning balance we first have to have a baseline and reallocating SP ruins the baseline. Its honestly quite the opposite. How long was the flaylock out before people started calling it OP? Almost two months? And even after it was finally found to be OP, a lot of people still wouldn't spec into it, knowing the SP would be wasted come 1.3 after CCP drops the nerf hammer 9000 on it. Reallocations have nothing to do with a meaningful baseline and in fact, FOTM chasing would technically be beneficial to rebalancing everything. If you could respec at any time... how many people you think we'd see using cal logis and flaylocks? Probably close to everyone. This would help CCP see exactly which items needed rebalancing. The reason they can't rebalance quickly is two-fold. First this system inhibits quick specialization into weapons... so for most people it takes 2-3 weeks just to get the prototype variant and a couple points of proficiency, this throws off metrics already. They also have to divert SP away from their already planned path of progession, causing certain people who would use a weapon to not use it, as they don't have the spare SP for it. Next, there is a 2 month lag time before CCP can even implement a fix to anything. First they have to recognize it, and then they have to implement it two patches from now (as they are now always content locked on the current patch). Imagine how many scouts there would be in this game if you could have respecs? Probably a lot fewer, the fact that they have to 'live with their choices' when the scout they are using now is not the scout they skilled into in 1.1 is causing bias in the wrong way, making it look like there are more scouts than there should be and causing ccp to think there isn't as much of a problem with scouts as there actually is. How about tankers? Could you imagine how many fewer tankers there would be right now if they could spec out of tanks? No they are forced to 'live with their decision' even though tanks are receiving a huge nerf 'in a future update'. Should they have seen the armor rep nerf coming like cal logis and chosen accordingly? The only way CCP can get any sort of meaningful data is from QQers on the forums. And we all can see how well thats working out . So no.. I don't see how refusing respecs hurts anything. Maybe you can explain a little better how refusing respecs establishes a better baseline? All it really does is force people like OZAROW to deal with be screwed over by unnecessarily implemented mechanics cause he 'made a choice and has to live with it'. Right now there is only one way of specing out of your current choices... and that's quitting the game. Seems bad for business to me?
This bro I really respect an is written well with honesty to ccp s flaws in the logic of the games design.
I believe this will bring balance , an will also have to be a normal thing to bring the ftom to find this balancing.
I personally love my scout it's the reason I play this game.
I have dumped money an am like others upset my money paid people to break my damn fit!
My only problem is I want the broken sh!% to work before respecs.
If everything worked fine then balance things.
I can handle op logi suits , I can handle crazy rocket guns an infinity shooting TAR S.
What I can't handle is once I sneek up to blast your head off or cut it off an all it does is basically tap you on the shoulder and say " YO IM HERE FOR YOU TO SHOOT THE $h!% OUT OF ME WHILE I TRY TO RUN AWAY BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW , YOU'D BE DEAD AS HELL RIGHT NOW IF MY FRIGGEN $H!% WORKED".
Lmao , so ya till they fix that I'm on the no respec train, cuz even if we get one I'm gonna rok bpo untill they got ish working, no what I mean.
Cuz scouts broke, so I'm not going assault , an everyone gonna just have to hold up for my support on the issues till they actually fix my weapons an class, no disrespect to anyone but you right ccp has no clue how bad they broke scout an untill they do , I ll support no fixes till that's handled promptly !
Thank s for the shoutouts dubs |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
354
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 07:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
kiro of justice wrote:Calilogi's should suffer for what they've done.
No respecs.
Cal Logis aren't the only ones suffering here.
When CCP buffed Amarr logi suits they took every rationale someone like myself made in picking Min Logi and tossed them in the trash.
Not everyone here is being punished for taking an OP logi suit and running it like an assault, you have people that actually put thought into building a logi suit wasting their time and SP on setups that are now second rate trash at best.
All my Adv Min Logi suit had going for it was it's balanced loadout. Sacrificing base armor and shields for a balanced 3 high/3 low/3 equip, a near imperceptible speed boost and a nearly pointless hacking boost. Now Adv Amarr Logi suits get 3 high/3 low/3 equip and a sidearm and a more useful repair module bonus with the only detriment a near imperceptible speed decrease. |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
205
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
My scout drags big iron balls behind it an cant jump |
Iyllaria Dai
prophecy of the fallen
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 08:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
2Bee Smith wrote:Iyllaria Dai wrote:2Bee Smith wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Honestly, i've posted Kain Spero's comment on this in a bunch of threads cause its true.
Until a meaningful baseline has been established, CCP should just refund SP everytime they make changes to suits. Its going to be a while before we have any semblance of balance for the basic suits we've got. So until then, just let people reallocate every time you change the stats on dropsuits and weapons.
Who cares if Cal Logis are currently OP and you are bitter they've been OP for so long. Is that the players fault they designed the suit that way? its been almost 3 months the suit has had this bonus.
Just saying "Oh you had it coming and you should have known better" is just bitter QQ from people who didn't spec into it and want people who did to "pay for being OP for so long". Its poisonous to the community to act like this and make threads like this.
For some people this is a major change. Let them readjust their hard earned SP every time CCP makes adjustments.
In this way CCP can also make whatever adjustments they deem necessary, as they won't have to worry about screwing over a portion of their player base every time they do. I don't care about Cal Logis being OP, and i'm not bitter. Cal Logis are nothing to a shotgun I'm tired of the Cal Logi guys acting as if the suit has been ruined and asking for respecs because one suit has been changed, its just plain annoying *there's was in response to your correcting peoples spelling. If you're going to correct spelling, correct your grammar. As for Cal Logi's.. it's a CPU, NOT PG nerf. It greatly affects Basic and Adv suits, little affect to Proto. However, the fact that it does NOTHING for Logiassault which all the QQ about our suits has been is ridiculous. It is still possible to reach 1100EHP with a CORE Flaylock and Nades. While I don't advocate LogiAssault, I do advocate play your own style, which I assumed from playing EvE that Dust was to be the same. Yet it seems Dust is more of a play QQ crybabies style or you might get nerfed. The fact they are screwing with 2 suits, and breaking the ONLY balanced suit in the game, shows they further cater to the QQ crowd, not statistics. There were better ways to implement this "rebalance". Either way my MD and Cal Logi suit will still do it's job and ride out this bump in the road and see what they do to fix our suits in the end. Using Respects instead of Respec isn't a spelling problem, its a usage problem. I should've clarified that And I think you're missing the point of this post, the Caldari Logi isn't dead so don't whine for a respec, thats all I'm saying btw, the Calogi wan't the "only balanced suit". You'd have to be joking in order to say that, it did the role of a heavy better than a heavy and the role of an assault better than an assault.
It did it's job better because it WAS FIXED!.
What part of that did you miss? The other suits ARE BROKEN!. So CCP's answer instead of fixing everyone's broke ass suits, was to break the only suit that was working the way it meant to. Yes, we had a Logi Assault issue. That is due to weapon issues, NOT THE SUIT. So now you move the bonus everyone said was OP to the assault, now think for a moment... what happens now? You have assaults doing their job better than heavies, and now everyone will cry assaults are OP. Nothing is solved.
How about instead of making adjustments to the suits ( which will get changed again as these are TEMPORARY ), they could have left them alone until they fixed the Racial/Frame Bonuses.
Also, I am not asking for a Respec here. I am fine with the nerf as I can adapt just fine with the crap they did. Still can achieve over 1k EHP even with the nerf. I just fail to see how 87 EHP, No sidearm, less speed, and a bright target to shoot at was OP over assault, I can see it somewhat over Heavies... but with the new commando that is not as much an issue now once a few people get spec'd into those. |
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