DUST Search - A message to those asking for Respecs

The Robot Devil wrote:

ZDub 303 wrote:

The Robot Devil wrote:

So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP.

SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way.

Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed.

Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences.

Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent.

Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game.

flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner.

Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time?

You proved my point. Nothing can be balanced if the game is in constant flux, doublely so if respecs are given out like candy. This is how CCP works, we all knew it or should have learned it a long time ago. To have meaning balance we first have to have a baseline and reallocating SP ruins the baseline.


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ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 05:23:00 - [1] - Quote Let me guess... you're completely unaffected by the changes presented in 1.3? Easy to post things like this when its not you who's affected.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 05:48:00 - [2] - Quote Honestly, i've posted Kain Spero's comment on this in a bunch of threads cause its true. Until a meaningful baseline has been established, CCP should just refund SP everytime they make changes to suits. Its going to be a while before we have any semblance of balance for the basic suits we've got. So until then, just let people reallocate every time you change the stats on dropsuits and weapons. Who cares if Cal Logis are currently OP and you are bitter they've been OP for so long. Is that the players fault they designed the suit that way? its been almost 3 months the suit has had this bonus. Just saying "Oh you had it coming and you should have known better" is just bitter QQ from people who didn't spec into it and want people who did to "pay for being OP for so long". Its poisonous to the community to act like this and make threads like this. For some people this is a major change. Let them readjust their hard earned SP every time CCP makes adjustments. In this way CCP can also make whatever adjustments they deem necessary, as they won't have to worry about screwing over a portion of their player base every time they do.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 05:51:00 - [3] - Quote and whats it to you? please tell me how you will be negatively affected by an SP reallocation? Why should they not grant one? Why will it be so damaging to you that your needs should be considered over the obvious benefits quite a few people will receive if they did perform an SP reallocation?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 05:54:00 - [4] - Quote 2Bee Smith wrote: I don't care about Cal Logis being OP, and i'm not bitter. Cal Logis are nothing to a shotgun I'm tired of the Cal Logi guys acting as if the suit has been ruined and asking for respecs because one suit has been changed, its just plain annoying A hard truth here buddy. But nobody cares that you find it annoying.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:07:00 - [5] - Quote 2Bee Smith wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: 2Bee Smith wrote: I don't care about Cal Logis being OP, and i'm not bitter. Cal Logis are nothing to a shotgun I'm tired of the Cal Logi guys acting as if the suit has been ruined and asking for respecs because one suit has been changed, its just plain annoying A hard truth here buddy. But nobody cares that you find it annoying. Are you sure? I could find plenty of people tired of respec advocates Positive
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:29:00 - [6] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP. SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way. Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed. Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences. Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent. Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game. flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner. Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 06:43:00 - [7] - Quote Syther Shadows wrote: 2Bee Smith wrote: Iyllaria Dai wrote: 2Bee Smith wrote: First of all-- Respec. Learn to spell Second of all, quit begging for one. The only time there should be a respec is when theres* a MAJOR game-changing patch *there's What? First of ccp said there will NEVER be a respec again. Source?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1131	Posted - 2013.07.22 07:19:00 - [8] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: So whenever they decide to add content or change anything we should get a respec? No. It's not that bad. I don't want to see anyone "punished" but there has to be a stopping point or there is no need for SP. SP reallocation creates bad data by allowing things to change too quickly and skewing what gear is used in what way. Repecs exacerbate the flavor of the month problem and cause more nerfs than are needed. Refunded SP also hurts the point of the game and the premise set by New Eden and the idea that choices have consequences. Re specialization also creates more respecs buy setting precedent. Last but not least HTFU because this is New Eden and choices count. It is just a game. flavor of the month is caused by CCPs inability to rebalance weapons in a timely manner. Choices don't have consequences when a game is in this much flux, how can you make a meaningful choice on what to spend your SP on when everything you choose to or not to spec into will not be the same in 2-3 months time? You proved my point. Nothing can be balanced if the game is in constant flux, doublely so if respecs are given out like candy. This is how CCP works, we all knew it or should have learned it a long time ago. To have meaning balance we first have to have a baseline and reallocating SP ruins the baseline. Its honestly quite the opposite. How long was the flaylock out before people started calling it OP? Almost two months? And even after it was finally found to be OP, a lot of people still wouldn't spec into it, knowing the SP would be wasted come 1.3 after CCP drops the nerf hammer 9000 on it. Reallocations have nothing to do with a meaningful baseline and in fact, FOTM chasing would technically be beneficial to rebalancing everything. If you could respec at any time... how many people you think we'd see using cal logis and flaylocks? Probably close to everyone. This would help CCP see exactly which items needed rebalancing. The reason they can't rebalance quickly is two-fold. First this system inhibits quick specialization into weapons... so for most people it takes 2-3 weeks just to get the prototype variant and a couple points of proficiency, this throws off metrics already. They also have to divert SP away from their already planned path of progession, causing certain people who would use a weapon to not use it, as they don't have the spare SP for it. Next, there is a 2 month lag time before CCP can even implement a fix to anything. First they have to recognize it, and then they have to implement it two patches from now (as they are now always content locked on the current patch). Imagine how many scouts there would be in this game if you could have respecs? Probably a lot fewer, the fact that they have to 'live with their choices' when the scout they are using now is not the scout they skilled into in 1.1 is causing bias in the wrong way, making it look like there are more scouts than there should be and causing ccp to think there isn't as much of a problem with scouts as there actually is. How about tankers? Could you imagine how many fewer tankers there would be right now if they could spec out of tanks? No they are forced to 'live with their decision' even though tanks are receiving a huge nerf 'in a future update'. Should they have seen the armor rep nerf coming like cal logis and chosen accordingly? The only way CCP can get any sort of meaningful data is from QQers on the forums. And we all can see how well thats working out . So no.. I don't see how refusing respecs hurts anything. Maybe you can explain a little better how refusing respecs establishes a better baseline? All it really does is force people like OZAROW to deal with be screwed over by unnecessarily implemented mechanics cause he 'made a choice and has to live with it'. Right now there is only one way of specing out of your current choices... and that's quitting the game. Seems bad for business to me?