DUST Search - Requests: 'Anti-AV grenades' Vehicle module

Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:

Well, maybe I readed to many troll-threads on the day when I post this topic. It seems that this idea does not fit to the Dust.
I will try to answer people that spend time to post something in me topic :).

AV grenade can be fit to every suit regardless of their specialization - and on each suite grenades are equally dangerous. They are the most universal anti-vehicle weapon, and compared to others weapon drawbacks they are nearly excellent.
Infantry uses Grenade-slot occasionally, depend on circumstances - when you have group of Heavy red-dots at left, and Scouts at right, you do not have to choose Heavy group.

Some of you gave me Gold Advice which are false. Again, if Infantry have AV grenade you(as HAV driver) would not know this, because they are 'invisible' till you get hit by them. Advice ' you need to be aware of your surroundings' looks good on forums, but in reality on battlefield you can not tell what kind of obstacles are behind your HAV, because you do not have a camera there. You don't need to drive to nearest Supply Depot to be spam by AV, all you have to do is encounter group of Infantry, the same group that HAV was design to kill.

Everyone in this game, are trying to engage enemy on their own terms, because when they doing this on someone's terms they have bigger chance to fail. Ask yourself a question 'do I have advantage over group of 3-4 people that can engage me from 2 different direction in LAV, jump out at close range, and at the same time throw AV grenade at me?' No, not really.. Clearly.

Best 'buffer' fit for Madrugar have 12.400 HP total, and average 'active' one around 7k, so let's make comparison with AV grenade's:

ADV

Hacked EX-0 AV Grenade 1260.HP 6.6m

STD

AV Grenade 1050.HP 6m
Sleek AV Grenade 787.5HP 9m
Packed AV Grenade 1313.5HP 3m

ADV

EX-0 AV Grenade 1260.HP 6.6m
EX-3 Sleek AV Grenade 945.HP 9.9m
EX-11 Packed AV Grenade 1575.HP 3.3m

PRO

Wiyrkomi AV Grenade 1470.HP 7.2m
Lai Dai Sleek AV Grenade 1102.5HP 10.8m
Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 1764.HP 3.6m

STD Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun makes same dmg as Packed AV Grenade without dmg mod, Plasma Cannon make same base dmg as AV Grenade, and those are the weapon that have serious drawbacks in the context of full fit, and AV grenade can be fit to any fit, and it is much, much easier to hit 'weak spot' from grenade then form Light/Heavy AV weapons.
If grenade hit 'weak point' of vehicle it deal extra 50% dmg, so Wiyrkomi AV Grenade is dealing 2205 dmg in that case, and you need 5-6 of them to kill HAV with best buffer fit in game, and 3-4 to kill HAV with activ fit. With 2 other suqd mates it takes moment, and pilot at this time does not even have a chance to activate repairing module. If someone will jump out from HAV to protect it, attacker can kill them with their regular weapons(they do not have to switch to sidearms to do it).

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Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. CRONOS. 116	Posted - 2013.07.22 00:22:00 - [1] - Quote CCP I want high slot vehicle module that work on basis of Vehicle Scanner but instead of reveling hostile unit its turning OFF AV grenades, they magnets and/or they self activating mechanism. I want this module to have area of effect a little bit higher than Infantry throwing range and with cooldown at least 60 seconds or longer so it can not be spammed. I would like to infantry had to used at least one AV grenade to realize it's mechanism is turned off, and of course this grenade would be considered as wasted. Beside that if Infantry would like to activate his AV grenades back he would have to spend some time on it or switch suit on Supply Depot. I want that vehicle module because AV grenades does not have such significant drawbacks like other AV stuff. Heavy class is slow moving and maneuver turtle that can not resupply by himself, and without sqd with him his scanner does not exist, at one point he suffer H-slot, but he can kill infantry with it, it's largely depends on his position on field. Assaults and Scouts have Swarm Lauchers and Plasma Cannons - they require L-slot to be used, PC can be used on infantry same as FG, but in fact their defense is reduced to the use of sidearm weapon and grenades against infantry. Logistics have equipment explosive against vehicle, so they have L-free for anti-infantry or they may fitt AV in to it if they are Amarr L. You can have fitted AV grenade on your every anti-infantry fit and do not feel fitting drawbacks because of it, if some vehicle will come to you just throw a few grenades and that's it. It would be fun to have some countermeasure other than 'just kill him', beside we Pilots don't know who have AV grenades and who doesn't. If I see a guy running around with Swarm Launcher on his shoulder I know he need to be dead in first place. That's why using this module would be even more tricky because I will have to use it 'just in case', same as scanning module.
Anthais Zatekiel xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 0	Posted - 2013.07.22 01:40:00 - [2] - Quote Av nades need to be eliminated. Nevermind deactivated; for the reason you mentioned anybody can use them with no really draw back.
Gogo O'Dell Psygod9 RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2013.07.22 02:04:00 - [3] - Quote stop asking to buff tanks. it will never happen.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 168	Posted - 2013.07.22 02:50:00 - [4] - Quote I will agree to this once there is a mod for infantry that allows 0 dmg from tanks, because tanks have no drawbacks. But seriously, I don't feel it is AV nades that are so much the problem, it's the fact that the can be endlessly spammed with merely a nanohive.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 307	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:02:00 - [5] - Quote Disagree - If you're not careful then you die. Being a tanker is all about knowing and being aware of your surroundings. If you're going to waltz up to an enemy owned supply depot then you better be ready for the spam. Likewise when approaching any enemy positions, don't be an idiot and park anywhere that an infantry grenade can hit you. I tank almost every game now, and when I lose one it is not usually to AV grenades, it is almost exclusively caused by prototype swarm launchers, or prototype forge guns. Situational awareness is the most important skill in being a tanker.
AKIMBO ASSASSAIN Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:35:00 - [6] - Quote i agree with RINON rare occasion i lose a tank to av nades my tanks get blown up by proto av everything else a better suggestion would be to lower the price of tanks
TheEnd762 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:40:00 - [7] - Quote -1 Hell no. This is a ridiculous suggestion.
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 185	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:42:00 - [8] - Quote When I first used an AV nade I just loved the whole mechanic that they magnetized to the target. But I disagree with your request, AV nades are a good counter to vehicles, though they need some re-balancing.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2013.07.22 04:14:00 - [9] - Quote Turn on your hardeners. and/or Drive away. and/or Don't be there.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 53	Posted - 2013.07.22 05:20:00 - [10] - Quote The fitting drawback to using AV grenades is giving up a grenade slot for something that's only situationally useful. Not a huge drawback, but a noticeable one. I could see giving vehicles something to counteract them, but the fact is, vehicles basically have built-in counters to them. LAVs are generally fast enough get out of throwing range unless they're going for the splatter, in which case, they had it coming. Dropships, likewise, can fly higher than we can throw. Most HAVs are heavily armored enough that three AV grenades--advance level ones, anyway-- don't really faze them much. In addition, their turrets are effective much farther than we can throw.

maluble WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.07.23 02:07:00 - [11] - Quote Is this thread a joke?
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:33:00 - [12] - Quote Well, maybe I readed to many troll-threads on the day when I post this topic. It seems that this idea does not fit to the Dust. I will try to answer people that spend time to post something in me topic :). AV grenade can be fit to every suit regardless of their specialization - and on each suite grenades are equally dangerous. They are the most universal anti-vehicle weapon, and compared to others weapon drawbacks they are nearly excellent. Infantry uses Grenade-slot occasionally, depend on circumstances - when you have group of Heavy red-dots at left, and Scouts at right, you do not have to choose Heavy group. Some of you gave me Gold Advice which are false. Again, if Infantry have AV grenade you(as HAV driver) would not know this, because they are 'invisible' till you get hit by them. Advice ' you need to be aware of your surroundings' looks good on forums, but in reality on battlefield you can not tell what kind of obstacles are behind your HAV, because you do not have a camera there. You don't need to drive to nearest Supply Depot to be spam by AV, all you have to do is encounter group of Infantry, the same group that HAV was design to kill. Everyone in this game, are trying to engage enemy on their own terms, because when they doing this on someone's terms they have bigger chance to fail. Ask yourself a question 'do I have advantage over group of 3-4 people that can engage me from 2 different direction in LAV, jump out at close range, and at the same time throw AV grenade at me?' No, not really.. Clearly. Best 'buffer' fit for Madrugar have 12.400 HP total, and average 'active' one around 7k, so let's make comparison with AV grenade's: ADV(no skill req.) Hacked EX-0 AV Grenade 1260.HP 6.6m STD AV Grenade 1050.HP 6m Sleek AV Grenade 787.5HP 9m Packed AV Grenade 1313.5HP 3m ADV EX-0 AV Grenade 1260.HP 6.6m EX-3 Sleek AV Grenade 945.HP 9.9m EX-11 Packed AV Grenade 1575.HP 3.3m PRO Wiyrkomi AV Grenade 1470.HP 7.2m Lai Dai Sleek AV Grenade 1102.5HP 10.8m Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 1575.HP 3.6m STD Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun makes same dmg as Packed AV Grenade without dmg mod, Plasma Cannon make same base dmg as AV Grenade, and those are the weapon that have serious drawbacks in the context of full fit, and AV grenade can be fit to any fit, and it is much, much easier to hit 'weak spot' from grenade then form Light/Heavy AV weapons. If grenade hit 'weak point' of vehicle it deal extra 50% dmg, so Wiyrkomi AV Grenade is dealing 2205 dmg in that case, and you need 5-6 of them to kill HAV with best buffer fit in game, and 3-4 to kill HAV with activ fit. With 2 other suqd mates it takes moment, and pilot at this time does not even have a chance to activate repairing module. If someone will jump out from HAV to protect it, attacker can kill them with their regular weapons(they do not have to switch to sidearms to do it).
Captain Wontubulous Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 54	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:45:00 - [13] - Quote Anthais Zatekiel wrote: Av nades need to be eliminated. Nevermind deactivated; for the reason you mentioned anybody can use them with no really draw back. Really? Having to run right up to a tank to throw a grenade is not a drawback? What build are you running that you're immune to the 3 turrets on a tank? Otherwise if you're having problems killing the people with the grenades, stop parking where they can throw at you from behind cover.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:49:00 - [14] - Quote Captain Wontubulous wrote: Anthais Zatekiel wrote: Av nades need to be eliminated. Nevermind deactivated; for the reason you mentioned anybody can use them with no really draw back. Really? Having to run right up to a tank to throw a grenade is not a drawback? What build are you running that you're immune to the 3 turrets on a tank? Otherwise if you're having problems killing the people with the grenades, stop parking where they can throw at you from behind cover. Did you know that we have LAV in this game, and they are quite resilient? Read entire topic before posting..
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 543	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:52:00 - [15] - Quote Am I stupid or what but imo the problem with AV grenades is getting through the shield first. Grenades don't do jack squat against shields. Once you get to armor though, it's another situation. Same with swarms. So no, you don't need that kind of module.
Captain Wontubulous Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 55	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:53:00 - [16] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Well, maybe I readed to many troll-threads on the day when I post this topic. It seems that this idea does not fit to the Dust. I will try to answer people that spend time to post something in me topic :). AV grenade can be fit to every suit regardless of their specialization - and on each suite grenades are equally dangerous. They are the most universal anti-vehicle weapon, and compared to others weapon drawbacks they are nearly excellent. Infantry uses Grenade-slot occasionally, depend on circumstances - when you have group of Heavy red-dots at left, and Scouts at right, you do not have to choose Heavy group. Some of you gave me Gold Advice which are false. Again, if Infantry have AV grenade you(as HAV driver) would not know this, because they are 'invisible' till you get hit by them. Advice ' you need to be aware of your surroundings' looks good on forums, but in reality on battlefield you can not tell what kind of obstacles are behind your HAV, because you do not have a camera there. You don't need to drive to nearest Supply Depot to be spam by AV, all you have to do is encounter group of Infantry, the same group that HAV was design to kill. Everyone in this game, are trying to engage enemy on their own terms, because when they doing this on someone's terms they have bigger chance to fail. Ask yourself a question 'do I have advantage over group of 3-4 people that can engage me from 2 different direction in LAV, jump out at close range, and at the same time throw AV grenade at me?' No, not really.. Clearly. Best 'buffer' fit for Madrugar have 12.400 HP total, and average 'active' one around 7k, so let's make comparison with AV grenade's: ADV(no skill req.) Hacked EX-0 AV Grenade 1260.HP 6.6m STD AV Grenade 1050.HP 6m Sleek AV Grenade 787.5HP 9m Packed AV Grenade 1313.5HP 3m ADV EX-0 AV Grenade 1260.HP 6.6m EX-3 Sleek AV Grenade 945.HP 9.9m EX-11 Packed AV Grenade 1575.HP 3.3m PRO Wiyrkomi AV Grenade 1470.HP 7.2m Lai Dai Sleek AV Grenade 1102.5HP 10.8m Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 1764.HP 3.6m STD Swarm Launcher and Forge Gun makes same dmg as Packed AV Grenade without dmg mod, Plasma Cannon make same base dmg as AV Grenade, and those are the weapon that have serious drawbacks in the context of full fit, and AV grenade can be fit to any fit, and it is much, much easier to hit 'weak spot' from grenade then form Light/Heavy AV weapons. If grenade hit 'weak point' of vehicle it deal extra 50% dmg, so Wiyrkomi AV Grenade is dealing 2205 dmg in that case, and you need 5-6 of them to kill HAV with best buffer fit in game, and 3-4 to kill HAV with activ fit. With 2 other suqd mates it takes moment, and pilot at this time does not even have a chance to activate repairing module. If someone will jump out from HAV to protect it, attacker can kill them with their regular weapons(they do not have to switch to sidearms to do it). I really don't believe your HAV was designed to take out groups of infantry. If it was 3 tanks would be a win. I would think they were more designed for taking out other vehicles and enemy installations.
Captain Wontubulous Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 55	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:56:00 - [17] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Captain Wontubulous wrote: Anthais Zatekiel wrote: Av nades need to be eliminated. Nevermind deactivated; for the reason you mentioned anybody can use them with no really draw back. Really? Having to run right up to a tank to throw a grenade is not a drawback? What build are you running that you're immune to the 3 turrets on a tank? Otherwise if you're having problems killing the people with the grenades, stop parking where they can throw at you from behind cover. Did you know that we have LAV in this game, and they are quite resilient? Read entire topic before posting.. Considering there's LAVS that are taking 3 of my advanced AV grenades and surviving while still being ridiculous murder taxis I would say my argument is still valid. Think about the entire situation before posting.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:03:00 - [18] - Quote Captain Wontubulous wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Captain Wontubulous wrote: Anthais Zatekiel wrote: Av nades need to be eliminated. Nevermind deactivated; for the reason you mentioned anybody can use them with no really draw back. Really? Having to run right up to a tank to throw a grenade is not a drawback? What build are you running that you're immune to the 3 turrets on a tank? Otherwise if you're having problems killing the people with the grenades, stop parking where they can throw at you from behind cover. Did you know that we have LAV in this game, and they are quite resilient? Read entire topic before posting.. Considering there's LAVS that are taking 3 of my advanced AV grenades and surviving while still being ridiculous murder taxis I would say my argument is still valid. Think about the entire situation before posting. No, no.. Just take the car to avoid having to run to the tank, and then use AV grenades.
Captain Wontubulous Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 58	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:05:00 - [19] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Captain Wontubulous wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Captain Wontubulous wrote: Anthais Zatekiel wrote: Av nades need to be eliminated. Nevermind deactivated; for the reason you mentioned anybody can use them with no really draw back. Really? Having to run right up to a tank to throw a grenade is not a drawback? What build are you running that you're immune to the 3 turrets on a tank? Otherwise if you're having problems killing the people with the grenades, stop parking where they can throw at you from behind cover. Did you know that we have LAV in this game, and they are quite resilient? Read entire topic before posting.. Considering there's LAVS that are taking 3 of my advanced AV grenades and surviving while still being ridiculous murder taxis I would say my argument is still valid. Think about the entire situation before posting. No, no.. Just take the car to avoid having to run to the tank, and then use AV grenades. Ahhhh so now I have to fit proto AV grenades as well as skill into a LAV strong enough to make it to a tank and then have a nanohive that's tiered high enough to get me all the grenades I need to kill the tank. Then to manage to actually kill it before it gets away I'm going to need 2 more people with the same setup... you're right. The tanks are so UP.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 481	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:30:00 - [20] - Quote its called use a shield tank.



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