DUST Search - Dust, same as it ever was

Matakage wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

We need more variety (stuff that isn't in the standard FPS playbook) and we need more depth. It needs to break out of the "core FPS" mode, and go it's own way. It needs to offer an alternative. It's not the right way to keep pounding on the "core mechanics" until the game just dies due to having nothing new, and still being crappier at core mechanics than the "big boys" in the market.

Actually focusing on Core Mechanics IS the most important thing right now simply because whenever CCP tries to add new things, they totally break their game; and not just from a balance perspective, but a technical one.

Like it or not, the game needs to be fixed at the core level (since Beta failed to accomplish this) before CCP can start laying their dreams on top of their reality.

Nope. this isn't working, and has never worked.

Dust has no reason to exist because it offers nothing new.

It will not help to make the game more playable if it has no reason to exist. Boring is dead.

People will tolerate flaws, like they do with all games, if the game has a reason to exist.

Ask yourself this "When I'm browsing for a new game to buy, or get into, do I look for games that seem to be new and interesting and offer me a new experience, or do I look for a dime store copy that plays pretty smoothly?"

Right now, we're playing the dim estore copy.

What part of "No one wants to play this kitten game because the controls kitten suck" don't you understand?


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Buster Friently Rosen Association 1250	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:00:00 - [1] - Quote Dust is too boring. I know it isn't finished, etc, but let me explain by reference to Eve, CCP's other project. Even when Eve was young and had almost no content it was at least different from other MMORPGs. This is what let it actually grow. Eve didn't follow the standard MMORPG meme of grind rats to get XP to get better gear to grind bigger rats. It had passive XP, a big departure, a robust player economy, single shard play, and more that made the game innovative even if it lacked content. Now I've seen a read a lot of the negative reviews of Dust, and of course, the various forum arguments as well. I also know that many of you disagree with my ideas and my techniques, but here's what I'd like to say. The reviews are dead on in at least one respect - Dust isn't innovative. It's way too samey. There's no real new concept here. The weapons are all the same, the gameplay is all the same. Even the ideas brought over from Eve aren't the innovative ideas, there the standards, the Sp tree, the fittings, etc. Dust needs to be unique to survive. Here's where I'm going to get a little more controversial. CCP needs to stop listening to the players telling them that Dust needs to be more like other shooters, that Dust needs to get the core shooter aspects right, that Dust needs to be accessible in the same way other shooters are. That's just going to produce a Dust that nothing new to offer, and is inferior to those other shooters. We have something less than 5000 concurrent players right now, and the game is soft launched, but not really launched. This is a great opportunity for CCP to bring back innovation and make the game interesting, if flawed. Right now the game is boring and flawed. We need a Dust that preserves tactics, that encourages smart play and depth, rather than the bland appeal to the lowest common denominator that we have now. We need more variety (stuff that isn't in the standard FPS playbook) and we need more depth. It needs to break out of the "core FPS" mode, and go it's own way. It needs to offer an alternative. It's not the right way to keep pounding on the "core mechanics" until the game just dies due to having nothing new, and still being crappier at core mechanics than the "big boys" in the market. CCP is playing it way too safe with Dust, and producing a boring game because of it. A boring game is worse than a flawed game. Back in the day, when Eve was a baby, CCP didn't focus on polishing Eve up to have "core MMORPG" features, CCP made something different. For Dust to survive, CCP needs to make something different.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1250	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:11:00 - [2] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Buster Friently wrote: We need more variety (stuff that isn't in the standard FPS playbook) and we need more depth. It needs to break out of the "core FPS" mode, and go it's own way. It needs to offer an alternative. It's not the right way to keep pounding on the "core mechanics" until the game just dies due to having nothing new, and still being crappier at core mechanics than the "big boys" in the market. Actually focusing on Core Mechanics IS the most important thing right now simply because whenever CCP tries to add new things, they totally break their game; and not just from a balance perspective, but a technical one. Like it or not, the game needs to be fixed at the core level (since Beta failed to accomplish this) before CCP can start laying their dreams on top of their reality. Nope. this isn't working, and has never worked. Dust has no reason to exist because it offers nothing new. It will not help to make the game more playable if it has no reason to exist. Boring is dead. People will tolerate flaws, like they do with all games, if the game has a reason to exist. Ask yourself this "When I'm browsing for a new game to buy, or get into, do I look for games that seem to be new and interesting and offer me a new experience, or do I look for a dime store copy that plays pretty smoothly?" Right now, we're playing the dim estore copy.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1253	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:20:00 - [3] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Ask yourself this "When I'm browsing for a new game to buy, or get into, do I look for games that seem to be new and interesting and offer me a new experience, or do I look for a dime store copy that plays pretty smoothly?" Right now, we're playing the dim estore copy. I look for games that aren't plagued with bugs, making them unplayable. Go ahead and try adding in "fresh" content when your base code can't support what's already there. See how long you last. ::sips drink:: That's exactly how most games make it. Providing a "clean" code base with nothing new, will get you no where. Look at pretty much any game. Here's a few good examples - Eve, Magicka, Kerbal Space Program, Any Bethesda game ever, SOTS 1. Indie games need good ideas more than they need code polish. Without something new, no one will play. If the game has something interesting, people will tolerate bugs.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1268	Posted - 2013.07.22 15:47:00 - [4] - Quote Bump, because a polished boredom is still boring, but a broken interesting is quirky.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1280	Posted - 2013.07.25 01:32:00 - [5] - Quote Bump because Dust is getting more homogeneous and unremarkable by the day.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1300	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:35:00 - [6] - Quote People will play a flawed, but interesting game. They will not play a flawless but boring (to them) game. Thus new content, especially pve, should be the highest priority for now. At least until reviews are sounding like "Dust is cool, but buggy as hell" instead of "Dust has nothing to offer".
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1303	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:47:00 - [7] - Quote Matakage wrote: Buster Friently wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Buster Friently wrote: We need more variety (stuff that isn't in the standard FPS playbook) and we need more depth. It needs to break out of the "core FPS" mode, and go it's own way. It needs to offer an alternative. It's not the right way to keep pounding on the "core mechanics" until the game just dies due to having nothing new, and still being crappier at core mechanics than the "big boys" in the market. Actually focusing on Core Mechanics IS the most important thing right now simply because whenever CCP tries to add new things, they totally break their game; and not just from a balance perspective, but a technical one. Like it or not, the game needs to be fixed at the core level (since Beta failed to accomplish this) before CCP can start laying their dreams on top of their reality. Nope. this isn't working, and has never worked. Dust has no reason to exist because it offers nothing new. It will not help to make the game more playable if it has no reason to exist. Boring is dead. People will tolerate flaws, like they do with all games, if the game has a reason to exist. Ask yourself this "When I'm browsing for a new game to buy, or get into, do I look for games that seem to be new and interesting and offer me a new experience, or do I look for a dime store copy that plays pretty smoothly?" Right now, we're playing the dim estore copy. What part of "No one wants to play this kitten game because the controls kitten suck" don't you understand? That's not why no one wants to play. That's why some people leave. There's a big difference. No one wants to play a dime store copy at all, because it's boring and offers nothing new. This is currently the biggest problem in Dust. No new content is a much bigger problem than poor controls. Again, until reviews look like "Dust is fun and has new things to offer, but is held back by poor execution" we need new and innovative content. Currently we're playing a game that has no reason to exist because it offers nothing new. Reviews are more like "Dust isn't worth your time". You "polish the controls above all" guys are helping CCP go in the wrong direction. No one wants to eat a turd no matter how polished it is.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1306	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:05:00 - [8] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Buster Friently, fighting for biggest troll of general discussion, one senseless thread at a time. Ironically, I have more sense than most here. No game in the history of mankind has been successfully promoted as "polished, but offering nothing new". Dust will not be the first.