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Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
   |
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Amarr Logi / hread. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:
HTFU
ADAPT OR DIIIIIIIIIIIIIE
That's... totally not hypocritical 
"Oh yeah, lets just nerf these guys because we failed to adapt and then tell them to adapt " - Dust Forum's Logic |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Amarr Logi / hread. Two 'S' slots? \thread
Oh god.... you're serious   
Looks like I'll be speccing back into Caldari assaults again  |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:The problem is the Caldari logi, its overpowered. With all skills maxed out: A prototype Caldari logi can tank more HP while holding a Duvolle AR than an prototype heavy sentinel with a boundless HMG, AND the Cal logi is still faster than the sentinel when they are both fully tanked like that. They need to lose a low slot, and gain an equipment slot at prototype level; they have 9 module slot, coupled with the shield extender bonus makes their HP far too much. I would prefer if their bonus was a CPU reduction on shield extender rather than an efficacy boost. The Gallente and Minmatar ones are perfectly fine. They sacrifice speed, a bit of HP, shield recharge, and a sidearm to gain more equipment slots, and 1 more module slot compared to their assault counterpart; seems fair to me. The Amarr one is underpowered for 2 reasons. At prototype, it scarifices the gain of a module slot AND the gain of an equipment to gain a sidearm, only one of these gains should have been sacrificed for the sidearm; it is the least tankable, slowest logi. At advanced it needs to get a sidearm or an extra equipment slot; for some reason despite having the least slots out of all ADV logis and not having a sidearm, it has only 2 equipment slots while ALL other ADV logis have 3. In depth analysis of all the racial logis compared to each other, and their assault counterparts, and solutions. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93653 No. I don't know about Minmatar, but Gallente logi IS better than Gallente assault. They lose a SMALL bit of HP, but gain a low slot. One basic plate is already double than what they lose. Gallente don't need shield recharge. Sidearm isn't really needed when you have an AR with 60 bullets in a clip and can dish out over 3000 damage per clip. Speed difference of 0.3 isn't even noticeable, and once you put plates on that differences closes in. So let me get this straight. They lose barely nothing, but gain 3 equipment slots? HOW is that fair in your mind? They should have even less module slots than assaults, or should have the light weapon taken away. Say no all you want, but they are SUPPORT, they shouldn't have the same firepower or survivability as an ASSAULT.
So, a few extra nano-hives make them better assaults how exactly? That's not the stupidest thing I've heard all day
And yes, they should have more surviveability than an assault, at least HP wise, or do you think they're not going to get shot at just because they're "support"? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:extra health
Aside from the Cal logi, and the Gallente who can only do it if he becomes slower, where exactly is their extra health?
Minmatar has about the same, Cal logi would have less if not for it's bonus, and amarr logis have the least out of any medium suits, along with being the slowest.
Quote:And generally people shoot back at the people who are shooting at them.
Yes, they also shoot the people who are healing the people who keep shooting them, it tends to be a priority actually |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:So, a few extra nano-hives make them better assaults how exactly? That's not the stupidest thing I've heard all day And yes, they should have more surviveability than an assault, at least HP wise, or do you think think they're not going to get shot at just because they're "support"? Extra nanohives that heal + extra health + ability to dish out same amounts of damage? How is that not better exactly? And generally people shoot back at the people who are shooting at them. And support characters can heal from behind cover. You have to usually put a weapon away to heal.
He's talking about repper nano-hives, something that's very rare, but apparently that's what makes all logis better... |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:So, a few extra nano-hives make them better assaults how exactly? That's not the stupidest thing I've heard all day And yes, they should have more surviveability than an assault, at least HP wise, or do you think think they're not going to get shot at just because they're "support"? Extra nanohives that heal + extra health + ability to dish out same amounts of damage? How is that not better exactly? And generally people shoot back at the people who are shooting at them. And support characters can heal from behind cover. You have to usually put a weapon away to heal. He's talking about repper nano-hives, something that's very rare, but apparently that's what makes all logis better... You mean the things that any suit class with equipment can use too?
But we get to carry more, even though they're only useful for armor tankers
lol armor...
I sure wouldn't waste a slot on it |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank.
Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots
Anything after 3 is useless, who carries more than 3? it certainly isn't logi's considering they need those slots to tank better since they have lower base health. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players.
No, it's usually something about their none-extistant higher EHP, that only cal-logis actually have. There's also always a lot of people claiming all suits are OP, but never actually explaing how or why. Kind of like you, you just throw out random stats that are better than the assaults, and say "that's why", without explaining how those stats make them better at "slaying".
Heavies have more health than assaults, are they better slayers too now? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:
Which medic goes running into a hot zone with no cover fire to save people.
I never liked this argument.
And you dont have to revive, you can choose to die and pop another clone if an area is overrun.
As combat medics, that is generally what logis are expected to do. Any logi who can't support themselves in combat is just a liability to the team, just like heavies
How many people do you see complaining about "bad logis" that don't clear the area before the revive, that shall soon be all logis, if they still try and revive and if they don't go extinct. |
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Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2381
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players. No, it's usually something about their none-extistant higher EHP, that only cal-logis actually have. There's also always a lot of people claiming all suits are OP, but never actually explaing how or why. Kind of like you, you just throw out random stats that are better than the assaults, and say "that's why", without explaining how those stats make them better at "slaying". Heavies have more health than assaults, are they better slayers too now? Oh, come on. It's been discussed to death on here, but now I'm just making it up? Logistics suits can do anything as well, or better than other classes (besides carrying heavy weapons). They can spec to be as fast as scout suits, they can have all the same damage buffs, shield and armor buffs, rechargers as the other classes and more. How often do you see a logi actually playing their role, healing up teammates, reviving, using scanners, etc.? Never. People are spec'ing into logi so they can be better than assault players at being assault players.
Nope. Logis being "OP" have been discussed to death, that is true, but no one ever gives reasons why. Go ahead, you can be the first, start with the Amarr and Gallente suits. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Cosgar wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nope. Logis being "OP" have been discussed to death, that is true, but no one ever gives reasons why. Go ahead, you can be the first, start with the Amarr and Gallente suits. I almost want to hear how the Minmatar logi is OP first. I feel like there's this uber fitting I haven't discovered yet. I'll post the numbers when I get home and have the game in front of me. And the discussion isn't straight 'OP', its that logistics are acting as assault instead of acting as logistic. It's OP in that they can literally do anything in the game (besides carry heavy weapons), and rarely its the medic/supply/scanner/drop uplink end of things. Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players?
Considering this is an FPS, everyone should be able to kill, that's kind of the whole point of the game. Now, wouldn't mind assault suits getting an inherit damage bonus to make them the go-to slayer class, but taking our light weapon slot, especially on a suit asbad as the amarr logi? Bad nemo.
Of course, assaults getting a damage bonus would all but require that heavies get a resistance bonus to cancel it out. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:
I'm pointing out that the supposed "support role" is loading up on health and damage and acting as a beefed up assault role instead of playing their role on the battlefield as a healer/resupplier.
This is why you're failing bro.
They CAN NOT load up more damage than an assault suit, they CAN NOT stack more health than an assault suit. Scratch that, the Gallente Logi can get more health than the assault suit, but only if it goes with regular armor plates and not the variants, and we all now why no one uses those.
They aren't "beefed" up in the slightest, their only real advantage lies in their equipment slots.
So long as you focus on tank, you will lose, because it's only in your head that they're actually better at it. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Caldari Assault Suit's EHP: 412.5 (This was with passives included)
Caldari Logistic Suit's EHP: 337.5(75 HP difference)
I don't see how they're better tankers just yet.... maybe slot count?
A logi can fit 5 shield extenders while an assault can fit 4, that's 363 and 290.4 respectively, this is including the +10% shield bonus from the skill.
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:337.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP
Where is their higher tank again? I'll give you a hint, it's in the Caldari logi's bonus
337.5 + 453.75 = 790.5 EHP
790.5L) - 702.9(A) = 87.6 HP difference.
Not to mention that they have an extra low slot for some reason... either that and/or their bonus has to go/change.
So the Caldari Logi is a better tank than the Caldari assault, now, how is this true for the other suits? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:I love how people say that the gallente logi isn't OP because putting on armor plates make them slow, But they don't realize that the ferroscale plates have no movement penalty and have 60 HP at complex which allows them to stack 5 of them which would give them 555 armor (with core armor at lvl 5) and have 5hp/s regen with no movement penalty and allow them to stack damage mods at the same time, yeah thats not OP
Ferroscale is still armor and therefore still sucks. 5HP per second? that's totally going to save them from a duvole that does 40 dmg per bullet, who knows how many of those in a second
BTW, it's been mathematically proven that a shield extender is better than a damage module, and that's if all your shots land. So yeah... armor sucks. Plus, extenders are easier to fit, than damage mods, so yeah. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Cosgar]
Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? Some of us are doing both. That's kind of my issue with the whole thing. It's that Logi can do both. Heavy can't play as assault, assault can't play as logi or heavy, scout certainly can't play as assault or logi or heavy, but a logi can play as 3 of the 4 classes with the right spec.
So explain to us, why should a logi be restricted to side-arm, but not scouts, who y'know, are designed for "scouting"?
Why should a scout be a better killer than the logi? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:
I did.
I addressed the core problem that I have with the assault suits/logi suits.
It's cool that you disagree with me and all, but your reasoning is "Logi isn't that good compared to" my reasoning is "logistic suits can act as assault suits if they want, which doesn't make sense to me." I'm failing to see the point of the two different medium suit specializations when one of them is interchangeable, and the other is not.
The Logi is essentially an unspecialized sui,t it's strength is it's versatility, actually.... dude I'm a genius
What if.... Our current logistics suits became our medium basic suits? I mean, what is a logi, stat wise, not role wise? It's a suit that's traded base stats for a higher slot count, it's a suit that can essentially do whatever role it wants if fit for the role, it's an "un-specialized" suit, is that not what basic suits are supposed to be? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2383
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:
There "trade off" for logisitics is the lack of a side arm, which in practical terms, is a very subtle one given how many options they comparatively have.
It was big enough for the amarr logi to lose an equipment slot and 60 HP, seems like CCP values them more than the players do. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2385
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:it negates the benefit of splitting off from basic to assault, instead of basic to logi.
And what benefit is that exactly?
Their ****** bonuses are a waste of SP, all of them.
Giving assaults a damage bonus would solve everything 
Edit: Solve everything except the heavies and scouts even shittier bonuses |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2387
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:it negates the benefit of splitting off from basic to assault, instead of basic to logi. And what benefit is that exactly? Their ****** bonuses are a waste of SP, all of them. Giving assaults a damage bonus would solve everything ....the benefit of being able to play multiple roles on the battlefield via different suit loadouts as opposed to only being able to fulfill one because of slot restrictions? How many times do I have to reiterate that? An assault damage buff is basically the same idea, just a different approach at it. I'm not opposed to that totally either. I just feel it needs to be hammered in that logis should logi. Your name's Lebowski, Lebowski. Your wife is Bunny.
You seem to have misunderstood.
I'm asking what the bonus to specing into an assault suit over a basic suit is, not logis. Why should I go assault and not stick with basic suit. |
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Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2387
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
I'm still waiting on some stat comparisons on how every logi is better than their assault counterpart.
All logis are innocent until proven logi |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2387
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Cosgar wrote:
I'm still waiting on some stat comparisons on how every logi is better than their assault counterpart.
All logis are innocent until proven logi As long as nobody invokes "Stand Your Ground."
Al logis have the right to go "nuh ugh" when accused of being OP |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2389
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Posted - 2013.07.16 18:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Cosgar wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:I'm not "butthurt". (third grade? fourth grade? enjoying your summer break? ) I'm pointing out that the supposed "support role" is loading up on health and damage and acting as a beefed up assault role instead of playing their role on the battlefield as a healer/resupplier. What's so hard to understand about that argument? This isn't a "OMG NERF DA OP LOGI" thread. This is a "how can we get the medics to act as medics?" thread. You were wrong when you claimed that all logis are better assaults when there's only one logi being abused because of its racial bonus, and it sure as hell isn't the Minmatar's racial. Here you will find video of someone trying to prove your statement wrong.
His hacking bonus is relevant to his use in flaylocks how exactly?
Not that Flaylocks are as OP as people claim they are |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2437
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 09:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:Easiest solution to Caldari logi = carry flux grenades. Funny, thats like saying: Easiest Solution to Every Other Suit = Carry Locus grenades.... Newsflash, after you Flux the guys shields down, you will come to realise that behind those 667 shields is 350-400 armor seeing it has 4 low slots aswell...
And the CPU and PG to use them? lets be realistic here man |
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