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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just a passing idea... There's the obvious running issue of Logi players playing as beefed up assault characters. There is little incentive for a Logi to hang back and actually play his role as support because they are simply better at eating bullets and dishing out damage than Assault dropsuits are.
So... why not take away their Light Weapon slot and replace it with a Sidearm one?
Hear me out...
Logi suits as of now can be loaded out to take a ton of damage, and I'm actually ok with that. Generally they're expected to (or at least are supposed to be expected to) be the medic/support role, so it makes sense that they should be able to eat a few extra rounds (see: Logi LAV if it were used as intended).
With just a side arm slot they could definitely get a nice SMG... or Godlock until that's nerfed a bit, get some damage mods and be able to defend themselves if needed. But their weapons wouldn't, and shouldn't, really stand up to assault players who are supposed to be tougher on the battlefield than they are. Logi's should be behind the Assaults and Heavies hitting them with the repair tool, dropping ammo, active scanning ahead, etc.
It's a balance idea, feel free to poke holes in it.  |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Is this really another "All logis are the problem herp-derp" topic? Really?
....no.
This is a "hey, everyone agrees that Logis are better than assault.... is there a simple, "makes sense" solution to that thread.
HTFU
ADAPT OR DIIIIIIIIIIIIIE |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Hope you know this idea has been discussed at least 100 times since Uprising released.
If I knew that, do you think I would've made a thread about it?
I honestly never saw the idea proposed, and my one search yielded people only talked about taking away the one Logi suit's sidearm. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 14:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Bettie Boop 2100190003 wrote:You can all go suck a duck trying to mess with logistics suits!
Stop trying to get logies nerfed because you think assault suits suck, find constructive ideas for assault suits rather than destructive ideas for logistics suits. Its like trying to fix your broken clock by smashing all the ones that work and set them to the same time.
In conclusion, SUCK A DUCK haters! The problem that assault sucks balls IS BECAUSE of the logi. If logi gets nerfed, assault suits get buffed in a way. If you buff the assault suits you might create a new problem. Like it was suggested to give assault suits a 10% damage bonus, but now suits will drop EVEN QUICKER.
The assault suit doesn't even suck. I'm viewing it more of an issues of logistics suits playing as if they are assault suits, instead of fulfilling their role as support.
Back in Chromosome I was a logi and it felt 'right'. There's something about this build where either everyone realized, or it just became a problem, that people decided to become bi-ped tanks/jacks of all trade with little to no penalty, with no interest of healing heavies, actively scanning, yadda-yadda.
SUCK A DUCK |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 14:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Amarr Logi / hread.
Two 'S' slots?
\thread |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:
HTFU
ADAPT OR DIIIIIIIIIIIIIE
That's... totally not hypocritical  "Oh yeah, lets just nerf these guys because we failed to adapt and then tell them to adapt " - Dust Forum's Logic
I was mocking the whole mantra. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:So, a few extra nano-hives make them better assaults how exactly? That's not the stupidest thing I've heard all day And yes, they should have more surviveability than an assault, at least HP wise, or do you think think they're not going to get shot at just because they're "support"?
Extra nanohives that heal + extra health + ability to dish out same amounts of damage? How is that not better exactly?
And generally people shoot back at the people who are shooting at them. And support characters can heal from behind cover. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:[quote=Johnny Guilt]If anything, sidearm primary frees up more CPU/PG for better equipment/mods and/or MORE tank. Logi should be more concerned with tank and equipment than with DPS, if they're reduced to scout level health they're being made useless. Logi NEED tank to be able to tank long enough to evade and return support fire if need be, they don't need uber combat ability, that should be the domain of the assault.
This. Exactly this.
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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots
And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players. |
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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players. More like it's been about the same goddamned nerf witch hunt since beta. I saw someone go 17-2 with a plasma cannon, are people going to cry for that to be nerfed next?
Generally accepted OP is totally based off of 'this one time I saw a guy manage to do well" and not "across the board, this appears to be a persistent problem."
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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 15:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage.
The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players. No, it's usually something about their none-extistant higher EHP, that only cal-logis actually have. There's also always a lot of people claiming all suits are OP, but never actually explaing how or why. Kind of like you, you just throw out random stats that are better than the assaults, and say "that's why", without explaining how those stats make them better at "slaying". Heavies have more health than assaults, are they better slayers too now?
Oh, come on. It's been discussed to death on here, but now I'm just making it up?
Logistics suits can do anything as well, or better than other classes (besides carrying heavy weapons). They can spec to be as fast as scout suits, they can have all the same damage buffs, shield and armor buffs, rechargers as the other classes and more.
How often do you see a logi actually playing their role, healing up teammates, reviving, using scanners, etc.? Never. People are spec'ing into logi so they can be better than assault players at being assault players. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 16:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nope. Logis being "OP" have been discussed to death, that is true, but no one ever gives reasons why. Go ahead, you can be the first, start with the Amarr and Gallente suits. I almost want to hear how the Minmatar logi is OP first. I feel like there's this uber fitting I haven't discovered yet.
I'll post the numbers when I get home and have the game in front of me.
And the discussion isn't straight 'OP', its that logistics are acting as assault instead of acting as logistic. It's OP in that they can literally do anything in the game (besides carry heavy weapons), and rarely its the medic/supply/scanner/drop uplink end of things.
Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 16:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Cosgar wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nope. Logis being "OP" have been discussed to death, that is true, but no one ever gives reasons why. Go ahead, you can be the first, start with the Amarr and Gallente suits. I almost want to hear how the Minmatar logi is OP first. I feel like there's this uber fitting I haven't discovered yet. I'll post the numbers when I get home and have the game in front of me. And the discussion isn't straight 'OP', its that logistics are acting as assault instead of acting as logistic. It's OP in that they can literally do anything in the game (besides carry heavy weapons), and rarely its the medic/supply/scanner/drop uplink end of things. Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? Sooo, your argument is that you're butthurt over a support class being able to kill... in a FPS?
I'm not "butthurt". (third grade? fourth grade? enjoying your summer break? )
I'm pointing out that the supposed "support role" is loading up on health and damage and acting as a beefed up assault role instead of playing their role on the battlefield as a healer/resupplier.
What's so hard to understand about that argument? This isn't a "OMG NERF DA OP LOGI" thread. This is a "how can we get the medics to act as medics?" thread. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 16:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Cosgar]
Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? Some of us are doing both.
That's kind of my issue with the whole thing. It's that Logi can do both. Heavy can't play as assault, assault can't play as logi or heavy, scout certainly can't play as assault or logi or heavy, but a logi can play as 3 of the 4 classes with the right spec. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 16:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Cosgar]
Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? Some of us are doing both. That's kind of my issue with the whole thing. It's that Logi can do both. Heavy can't play as assault, assault can't play as logi or heavy, scout certainly can't play as assault or logi or heavy, but a logi can play as 3 of the 4 classes with the right spec. Read the entire post before commenting
I did.
I addressed the core problem that I have with the assault suits/logi suits.
It's cool that you disagree with me and all, but your reasoning is "Logi isn't that good compared to" my reasoning is "logistic suits can act as assault suits if they want, which doesn't make sense to me." I'm failing to see the point of the two different medium suit specializations when one of them is interchangeable, and the other is not. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 17:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Cosgar]
Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? Some of us are doing both. That's kind of my issue with the whole thing. It's that Logi can do both. Heavy can't play as assault, assault can't play as logi or heavy, scout certainly can't play as assault or logi or heavy, but a logi can play as 3 of the 4 classes with the right spec. So explain to us, why should a logi be restricted to side-arm, but not scouts, who y'know, are designed for "scouting"?  Why should a scout be a better killer than the logi?
Scouts have crazy low health.... a scout with an AR has a death sentence. A scout with a shotgun makes sense, because it has to be quick to make it worth while, the trade off being how fast they can die. A scout with a sniper rifle makes sense, since they have a low profile.
There "trade off" for logisitics is the lack of a side arm, which in practical terms, is a very subtle one given how many options they comparatively have.
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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 17:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Still waiting to hear an actual defense of why Logistics players should be as good as, just about as good as, or sometimes better at Assault suits than Assault players, with the added bonus of being able to swap to a medic build of the same suit if they want, when Assault players don't have that option.
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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 17:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:
There "trade off" for logisitics is the lack of a side arm, which in practical terms, is a very subtle one given how many options they comparatively have.
It was big enough for the amarr logi to lose an equipment slot and 60 HP, seems like CCP values them more than the players do. And sorry, but you're one asking for changes, you won't get a defense until you actually give reasons for why your changes are necessary, it's your job to prove a point here, not ours
I feel like I've addressed my reason for the change multiple times now...
Logi's are jacks of all trades. Assault are just assaults.
There's a reason you don't see a ton of logistics players playing as logistics players. They have no incentive to. Being weaker in combat would lead to them relying on heavy and assault players, aiding them in the fight, assisting when needed, and hacking equipment while under the defense of the combat oriented classes. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 17:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:I have played nothing but Logi since started shortly after the open beta. I rep, resupply, and revive all the time. I more often then not have my rep tool out instead of my AR. You assume that 'all' Logis are not doing their jobs, just because you think otherwise.
Your anecdote doesn't erase the very real situation in the game. Just because you do perform the logi role doesn't mean that you have to because of the class you decided to spec into.
I'm not assuming that 'all logis are just glorified assaults!" I'm saying that they can be, and shouldn't be able to because it negates the benefit of splitting off from basic to assault, instead of basic to logi. |
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Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 17:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:it negates the benefit of splitting off from basic to assault, instead of basic to logi. And what benefit is that exactly? Their ****** bonuses are a waste of SP, all of them. Giving assaults a damage bonus would solve everything 
....the benefit of being able to play multiple roles on the battlefield via different suit loadouts as opposed to only being able to fulfill one because of slot restrictions?
How many times do I have to reiterate that?
An assault damage buff is basically the same idea, just a different approach at it. I'm not opposed to that totally either. I just feel it needs to be hammered in that logis should logi.
Your name's Lebowski, Lebowski. Your wife is Bunny. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 20:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:So you dislike the fact that Logis and specialize however they wish?
Yes.
Vin Mora wrote: The 'issue' with Logis is that the game current rewards everyone playing like assaults
That again goes right to my point. Assault should be good at assaulting, Logistics should be good at supporting the assaulting. |
Nemo Bluntz
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Posted - 2013.07.16 20:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
I'm still waiting on some stat comparisons on how every logi is better than their assault counterpart.
I can continue to reiterate it for you, but I feel like you're not bothering to read. |
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