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A simple fix (Assault Logi)

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Cosgar ParagonX 2701	Posted - 2013.07.16 05:43:00 - [1] - Quote Is this really another "All logis are the problem herp-derp" topic? Really?
Cosgar ParagonX 2701	Posted - 2013.07.16 05:55:00 - [2] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hope you know this idea has been discussed at least 100 times since Uprising released. If I knew that, do you think I would've made a thread about it? I honestly never saw the idea proposed, and my one search yielded people only talked about taking away the one Logi suit's sidearm. IWS started the whole sidearm thing. Let's just leave it there as a measuring stick to how bad of an idea it is.
Cosgar ParagonX 2702	Posted - 2013.07.16 09:33:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The problem is the Caldari logi, its overpowered. With all skills maxed out: A prototype Caldari logi can tank more HP while holding a Duvolle AR than an prototype heavy sentinel with a boundless HMG, AND the Cal logi is still faster than the sentinel when they are both fully tanked like that. They need to lose a low slot, and gain an equipment slot at prototype level; they have 9 module slot, coupled with the shield extender bonus makes their HP far too much. I would prefer if their bonus was a CPU reduction on shield extender rather than an efficacy boost. The Gallente and Minmatar ones are perfectly fine. They sacrifice speed, a bit of HP, shield recharge, and a sidearm to gain more equipment slots, and 1 more module slot compared to their assault counterpart; seems fair to me. The Amarr one is underpowered for 2 reasons. At prototype, it scarifices the gain of a module slot AND the gain of an equipment to gain a sidearm, only one of these gains should have been sacrificed for the sidearm; it is the least tankable, slowest logi. At advanced it needs to get a sidearm or an extra equipment slot; for some reason despite having the least slots out of all ADV logis and not having a sidearm, it has only 2 equipment slots while ALL other ADV logis have 3. In depth analysis of all the racial logis compared to each other, and their assault counterparts, and solutions. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93653 No. I don't know about Minmatar, but Gallente logi IS better than Gallente assault. They lose a SMALL bit of HP, but gain a low slot. One basic plate is already double than what they lose. Gallente don't need shield recharge. Sidearm isn't really needed when you have an AR with 60 bullets in a clip and can dish out over 3000 damage per clip. Speed difference of 0.3 isn't even noticeable, and once you put plates on that differences closes in. So let me get this straight. They lose barely nothing, but gain 3 equipment slots? HOW is that fair in your mind? They should have even less module slots than assaults, or should have the light weapon taken away. Say no all you want, but they are SUPPORT, they shouldn't have the same firepower or survivability as an ASSAULT. You want my light weapon? Everyone has to give up their equipment slot so logis can be your battlefield butler. On top of that, I'm speccing into the flaylock and I better damn sight not see anyone crying to have SMGs nerfed. God forbid people being capable to kill something in a goddamned FPS.
Cosgar ParagonX 2703	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:19:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Nope. You don't need anymore advantages, you already have 3 more equipment than any assault and more slots. Also, you just admitted you're a logi, which explains your defense towards them. Everyone and their mother agrees that logi's are the better assaults. Yeah, I'm a Minmatar Logi. You know the one, right? The original logi that nobody complained about for over a year because it's been relatively unchanged.
Cosgar ParagonX 2703	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:20:00 - [5] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: So, a few extra nano-hives make them better assaults how exactly? That's not the stupidest thing I've heard all day And yes, they should have more surviveability than an assault, at least HP wise, or do you think think they're not going to get shot at just because they're "support"? Extra nanohives that heal + extra health + ability to dish out same amounts of damage? How is that not better exactly? And generally people shoot back at the people who are shooting at them. And support characters can heal from behind cover. You have to usually put a weapon away to heal.
Cosgar ParagonX 2703	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:25:00 - [6] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: So, a few extra nano-hives make them better assaults how exactly? That's not the stupidest thing I've heard all day And yes, they should have more surviveability than an assault, at least HP wise, or do you think think they're not going to get shot at just because they're "support"? Extra nanohives that heal + extra health + ability to dish out same amounts of damage? How is that not better exactly? And generally people shoot back at the people who are shooting at them. And support characters can heal from behind cover. You have to usually put a weapon away to heal. He's talking about repper nano-hives, something that's very rare, but apparently that's what makes all logis better... You mean the things that any suit class with equipment can use too?
Cosgar ParagonX 2704	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:39:00 - [7] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: ...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage. The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players. More like it's been about the same goddamned nerf witch hunt since beta. I saw someone go 17-2 with a plasma cannon, are people going to cry for that to be nerfed next?
Cosgar ParagonX 2704	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:41:00 - [8] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Generally accepted OP is totally based off of 'this one time I saw a guy manage to do well" and not "across the board, this appears to be a persistent problem." Wait until more people figure out commando suit + dual plasma cannons...
Cosgar ParagonX 2704	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:44:00 - [9] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Which medic goes running into a hot zone with no cover fire to save people. I never liked this argument. And you dont have to revive, you can choose to die and pop another clone if an area is overrun. The medic that finishes off the guy(s) who killed their teammate so they can revive. You take away our light weapon and see how many times you'll get picked up.
Cosgar ParagonX 2705	Posted - 2013.07.16 15:54:00 - [10] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: ...having more slots, more CPU and more PG equals more health and more damage. The intention is for people to use that CPU and PG on equipment to play a support role. Instead its used on shield and armor boosts to become a tank. Having enough slots to just barely match an assault suit's base stats =/= more slots And that's why the conversations about logi in this build have been about how they're barely able to stand up to assault players. No, it's usually something about their none-extistant higher EHP, that only cal-logis actually have. There's also always a lot of people claiming all suits are OP, but never actually explaing how or why. Kind of like you, you just throw out random stats that are better than the assaults, and say "that's why", without explaining how those stats make them better at "slaying". Heavies have more health than assaults, are they better slayers too now? Oh, come on. It's been discussed to death on here, but now I'm just making it up? Logistics suits can do anything as well, or better than other classes (besides carrying heavy weapons). They can spec to be as fast as scout suits, they can have all the same damage buffs, shield and armor buffs, rechargers as the other classes and more. How often do you see a logi actually playing their role, healing up teammates, reviving, using scanners, etc.? Never. People are spec'ing into logi so they can be better than assault players at being assault players. Are you ever going to use some hard numbers are you just going to continue to talk about trees, flowers, and feelings to state that all logis are OP.

Cosgar ParagonX 2705	Posted - 2013.07.16 16:01:00 - [11] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Nope. Logis being "OP" have been discussed to death, that is true, but no one ever gives reasons why. Go ahead, you can be the first, start with the Amarr and Gallente suits. I almost want to hear how the Minmatar logi is OP first. I feel like there's this uber fitting I haven't discovered yet.
Cosgar ParagonX 2705	Posted - 2013.07.16 16:14:00 - [12] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Cosgar wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Nope. Logis being "OP" have been discussed to death, that is true, but no one ever gives reasons why. Go ahead, you can be the first, start with the Amarr and Gallente suits. I almost want to hear how the Minmatar logi is OP first. I feel like there's this uber fitting I haven't discovered yet. I'll post the numbers when I get home and have the game in front of me. And the discussion isn't straight 'OP', its that logistics are acting as assault instead of acting as logistic. It's OP in that they can literally do anything in the game (besides carry heavy weapons), and rarely its the medic/supply/scanner/drop uplink end of things. Do you really, honestly feel that logistics players are playing the game as logistics players, or are they playing as assault players? Sooo, your argument is that you're butthurt over a support class being able to kill... in a FPS?
Cosgar ParagonX 2707	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:43:00 - [13] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: I wasnt agreeing with the OP. I questioned the logic of why Logi needs to have more HP than assault Also - how is your little quip even describing what I said - hot zone, not secured area; area overrun. No you sound like you want super logi to save the day - not tactical logi supporting squad. Logis are slower than assaults, have less stamina, lower base HP, no sidearm, are SP/ISK intensive, and are usually the first targeted. The least we should get is a bigger buffer to compensate. Nemo Bluntz wrote: I'm not "butthurt". (third grade? fourth grade? enjoying your summer break? ) I'm pointing out that the supposed "support role" is loading up on health and damage and acting as a beefed up assault role instead of playing their role on the battlefield as a healer/resupplier. What's so hard to understand about that argument? This isn't a "OMG NERF DA OP LOGI" thread. This is a "how can we get the medics to act as medics?" thread. You were wrong when you claimed that all logis are better assaults when there's only one logi being abused because of its racial bonus, and it sure as hell isn't the Minmatar's racial. Nemo Bluntz wrote: Still waiting to hear an actual defense of why Logistics players should be as good as, just about as good as, or sometimes better at Assault suits than Assault players, with the added bonus of being able to swap to a medic build of the same suit if they want, when Assault players don't have that option. I'm still waiting on some stat comparisons on how every logi is better than their assault counterpart.
Cosgar ParagonX 2707	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:46:00 - [14] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Cosgar wrote: I'm still waiting on some stat comparisons on how every logi is better than their assault counterpart. All logis are innocent until proven logi As long as nobody invokes "Stand Your Ground."
Cosgar ParagonX 2708	Posted - 2013.07.16 18:21:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cosgar wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: I'm not "butthurt". (third grade? fourth grade? enjoying your summer break? ) I'm pointing out that the supposed "support role" is loading up on health and damage and acting as a beefed up assault role instead of playing their role on the battlefield as a healer/resupplier. What's so hard to understand about that argument? This isn't a "OMG NERF DA OP LOGI" thread. This is a "how can we get the medics to act as medics?" thread. You were wrong when you claimed that all logis are better assaults when there's only one logi being abused because of its racial bonus, and it sure as hell isn't the Minmatar's racial. Here you will find video of someone trying to prove your statement wrong. Right, the hacking bonus allowed him to go 52-2 as a Minmatar logi with all his equipment slots full, gotcha.
Cosgar ParagonX 2708	Posted - 2013.07.16 18:39:00 - [16] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: His hacking bonus is relevant to his use in flaylocks how exactly? Not that Flaylocks are as OP as people claim they are People have the habit of confusing OP with game breaking, so the point is moot.
Cosgar ParagonX 2715	Posted - 2013.07.17 09:09:00 - [17] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Cosgar wrote: I'm still waiting on some stat comparisons on how every logi is better than their assault counterpart. I can continue to reiterate it for you, but I feel like you're not bothering to read. 4 pages, and all I see is speculation and skirting while talking about spiritual **** as to why limiting an entire suit class to 1/3 of the game's available weapons... in a goddamned FPS of all places. You claim to reiterate your "point," and some kind of simple solution, but without numbers, the argument falls flat.