DUST Search - [Request] Easiest solution for LAVs: nerf the collision damage

FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hittingurret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free.

The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in.

Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4.

In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary.

The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry.

Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP.

Are you dumb? Think, it's a freaking jeep. When have you heard of a jeep running at someone at full speed and not killing them? I get owned by them all the time but its part of freaking game and dude just step to the side and bam you live and throw a av nade. What you want a car that can't kill people? Seriously what a dumb request, people who get killed by one thing a lot complain it op. I get owned the most by either charge snipers and tanks. Do I think they op no. I actually think the tank is underpowered, it's easy to take them out if you're smart. Don't own a swarm launcher? Use the milita one, get a sqaud of just that and it will take out any tank if you're smart. And a lav its even easier to take out. Why nerf the dmg it does? If it runs you over you die. Simple.

Don't stand in open areas
Don't stand still
Don't get ran over by a lav

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4981	Posted - 2013.07.15 07:43:00 - [1] - Quote Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hitting them; that's what the turret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free. The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in. Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4. In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary. The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP.
I-Shayz-I ZionTCD 404	Posted - 2013.07.15 13:09:00 - [2] - Quote The Dev's already posted about this earlier somewhere. Basically, the way they have it set up is that the LAV is the one determining collision damage, not the impact itself. So if you nerfed the collision damage for infantry, it would also nerf the collision damage for anything else it hit. This means no more LAV vs LAV explosions, and running into a wall or tank at high speeds would do very little damage. ....wait, how is that a bad thing? What really needs to be improved is for the damage calculation for collisions to be exponentially increased the faster the car is travelling. For instance, an LAV going top speed should do at least 800 damage. If it's going half as fast, then it should only do 200 damage,at 1/4 the speed, 100 damage, etc. Also, only one calculation should happen every second. This might also be the problem with how damage is calculated as of right now.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 330	Posted - 2013.07.15 13:13:00 - [3] - Quote I generally agree. Free LAVs is fine, but their ability to kill needs a nerf.
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 65	Posted - 2013.07.15 13:16:00 - [4] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The Dev's already posted about this earlier somewhere. Basically, the way they have it set up is that the LAV is the one determining collision damage, not the impact itself. So if you nerfed the collision damage for infantry, it would also nerf the collision damage for anything else it hit. This means no more LAV vs LAV explosions, and running into a wall or tank at high speeds would do very little damage. ....wait, how is that a bad thing? Look at it this way... no it still looks the same
Reno Pechieu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.07.15 13:26:00 - [5] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The Dev's already posted about this earlier somewhere. Basically, the way they have it set up is that the LAV is the one determining collision damage, not the impact itself. So if you nerfed the collision damage for infantry, it would also nerf the collision damage for anything else it hit. This means no more LAV vs LAV explosions, and running into a wall or tank at high speeds would do very little damage. ....wait, how is that a bad thing? What really needs to be improved is for the damage calculation for collisions to be exponentially increased the faster the car is travelling. For instance, an LAV going top speed should do at least 800 damage. If it's going half as fast, then it should only do 200 damage,at 1/4 the speed, 100 damage, etc. Also, only one calculation should happen every second. This might also be the problem with how damage is calculated as of right now. ItGÇÖs not the Vf=Vi+at that kills you, itGÇÖs the F=m(deltaV/deltaT) In layman terms; ItGÇÖs not the speed that kills you, but the rapid change in momentum. The point is, that while hitting an infantry with a LAV (at high speed!) will cause damage to both parties, the LAV will survive with some dent in the armour; one of the reason is because it has a greater mass. However, driving the LAV into a wall is going to have a completely different outcome, because to wall isnGÇÖt going to be pushed away like the infantry. So, itGÇÖs going to be the LAV (and its occupants) who is going to experience the full trauma of the exchange.
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2013.07.15 14:51:00 - [6] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hittingurret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free. The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in. Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4. In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary. The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP. Are you dumb? Think, it's a freaking jeep. When have you heard of a jeep running at someone at full speed and not killing them? I get owned by them all the time but its part of freaking game and dude just step to the side and bam you live and throw a av nade. What you want a car that can't kill people? Seriously what a dumb request, people who get killed by one thing a lot complain it op. I get owned the most by either charge snipers and tanks. Do I think they op no. I actually think the tank is underpowered, it's easy to take them out if you're smart. Don't own a swarm launcher? Use the milita one, get a sqaud of just that and it will take out any tank if you're smart. And a lav its even easier to take out. Why nerf the dmg it does? If it runs you over you die. Simple. Don't stand in open areas Don't stand still Don't get ran over by a lav
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 586	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:42:00 - [7] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hitting them; that's what the turret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free. The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in. Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4. In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary. The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP. On the suggestion of fixed 150p damage: Which do you see as a problem, high speed max impact roadkills, or from standstill accelerating barely moving 15km/h hit kills? 'Cause the problem is the LAVs that happily drive into pack of reds then start going back and forth and back and forth mowing all the time. And the speed being ridiculously low for insta kills. My suggestion has incorporated both improvements: - (slight) Damage for LAVs for roakill hits - high speeds hits instakill, low speed only pushes and injures
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:49:00 - [8] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hitting them; that's what the turret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free. The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in. Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4. In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary. The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP. On the suggestion of fixed 150p damage: Which do you see as a problem, high speed max impact roadkills, or from standstill accelerating barely moving 15km/h hit kills? 'Cause the problem is the LAVs that happily drive into pack of reds then start going back and forth and back and forth mowing all the time. And the speed being ridiculously low for insta kills. My suggestion has incorporated both improvements: - (slight) Damage for LAVs for roakill hits - high speeds hits instakill, low speed only pushes and injures Lol funny. Hey sir, even a smart car at low speed can kill someone. Why make military jeep in a game not kill you when slowly running over you? Actually slowly running over you will make sure someone is dead. Just saying sir. Don't stand still. Don't get ran over by a jeep.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 265	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:50:00 - [9] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Even low speeds should kill infantry. If the infantry player is not killed, then the physical explanation is that the LAV has been brought to a full stop as the dropsuit absorbed all the kinetic energy of the LAV which was magically not enough to kill him/her. A moving vehicle has a lot of kinetic energy and no matter how high-tech your dropsuit is, it cannot withstand an impact with a moving vehicle, simple as that. As long as it's moving fast enough and has enough mass, the vehicle wins. Those 1mph LAV kills people complain about, it's either because A) you're being crushed against a wall or B) you're being flattened by the LAV. I have so many kills at such low speeds because I've crushed people against something (be it a wall or a barricade, etc).
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4987	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:56:00 - [10] - Quote FLAYLOCK Steve wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hittingurret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free. The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in. Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4. In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary. The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP. Are you dumb? Think, it's a freaking jeep. When have you heard of a jeep running at someone at full speed and not killing them? I get owned by them all the time but its part of freaking game and dude just step to the side and bam you live and throw a av nade. What you want a car that can't kill people? Seriously what a dumb request, people who get killed by one thing a lot complain it op. I get owned the most by either charge snipers and tanks. Do I think they op no. I actually think the tank is underpowered, it's easy to take them out if you're smart. Don't own a swarm launcher? Use the milita one, get a sqaud of just that and it will take out any tank if you're smart. And a lav its even easier to take out. Why nerf the dmg it does? If it runs you over you die. Simple. Don't stand in open areas Don't stand still Don't get ran over by a lav I see some idiots are clinging to the real life "its a jeep" argument. If you need an excuse, then say inertial dampeners activate. Balance > realism. Idiot. Going to sleep now.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4987	Posted - 2013.07.15 16:11:00 - [11] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Just like the dropships are not meant to kill people by squishing them (remember when that use to be a problem?), LAVs are not meant to kill people by hitting them; that's what the turret is for. Roadkill should not be a legitimate playstyle, it diminishes the value of the turret and the need for teamwork with the gunner, and its one-hit-kill and incredibly easy nature makes it overpowered, especially when you can do it for free. The roadkill issue won't go away if LAVs get an HP nerf, it was always present. Nerfing HP will just turn them into fast moving glass cannons one-hit-killing everyone, but just more easily destroyed; won't do much since more free ones can be called in. Removing free LAVs would also be a bad idea. Vehicles are just a part of this game as infantry, and its only fair that they get at least one starter fit since infantry has 4. In the past I would have suggested something like making the LAV receive some damage from the impact (they get impact damage from hitting walls and rocks, but not heavily armored and shielded mercs), but I don't think all that is necessary. The easiest solution would just be to nerf the collision damage LAVs inflict on infantry. Make full speed collision do only 150 damage to infantry. Some people will likely say something dumb like "stay out of the road" or "watch both ways before crossing", but that's really just like saying "stay indoors" or "always look above your head" a few builds ago when dropships were effortlessly crushing enemies. The fact that you can do something to avoid being killed by something OP doesn't make it any less OP. On the suggestion of fixed 150p damage: Which do you see as a problem, high speed max impact roadkills, or from standstill accelerating barely moving 15km/h hit kills? 'Cause the problem is the LAVs that happily drive into pack of reds then start going back and forth and back and forth mowing all the time. And the speed being ridiculously low for insta kills. My suggestion has incorporated both improvements: - (slight) Damage for LAVs for roakill hits - high speeds hits instakill, low speed only pushes and injures Just noticed your post, was about to sleep. The instant kill mowing infantry at low speeds that you described is the main issue, and your solution (similar to something I previously proposed) would suffice. As long as it gets fixed, I don't care if it stops the high speed ones from being a viable tactic or not. I really don't see any legitimacy in the roadkill playstyle at all, high speed or not. The game won't suffer from a few people no longer being able to kill by hitting people with LAVs regardless of their speed.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 5067	Posted - 2013.07.21 11:22:00 - [12] - Quote so free LAVs got removed sighs
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 405	Posted - 2013.07.21 12:20:00 - [13] - Quote This won't fix anything, there are still people heavy specced into LogiLavs who don't use free ones anyway. To the morons using real life as an example, in real life I have more than a 30 degree field of vision, I can see without turning my entire body, I'm not being shot at in three other direction effectively choosing which way I want to die, and I can leap out of the way rather than upright almost sprinting. Flat footed infantry in the middle of a fire fight haven't got the ability or luxury of out maneuvering the LAV, and we have to push across open areas to get objectives in half the game modes. So "stay out of the road" is patently ridiculous. I might as well say "don't stand near walls or floors if you don't want my core flaylock to splash you". The problem is hard to destroy high HP LogiLavs that kill from minor collisions, not full on high speed ones. They are hard to avoid especially if you are otherwise engaged (being shot at) which in this game is all the time. And good drivers can just circle around you 8 or 9 times until they finally graze you for auto-death. I should be able to grab the door handle and yank out the driver in real life, but instead if I touch the side of a moving vehicle I take more damage than my entire EHP. Just Nerf damage to slow moving "collisions" or set a threshold minimum speed before collisions do any damage at all.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 1020	Posted - 2013.07.21 12:43:00 - [14] - Quote This is a good suggestion and anyone saying there's no problem and you need to learn to avoid LAVs is an idiot, plain and simple. Most times when a car its someone at <30mph, it will injure but not kill. At higher speeds, it usually (but not always) kills. Now if you consider we're wearing futuristic armor hardened dropsuits and heavies have sometimes as much if not more eHP than the LAV killing them, most LAV collisions should not kill but only do some damage (how much is open to debate/calculation).
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 1591	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:21:00 - [15] - Quote Just make them do 0 danger. That's right, night goose egg. I litterally hacked some guys LLAV and ran over a hill and got 4 proto kills in 2 seconds... Just take it out the game. Yeah it might not be realistic but game mechanics come first. Let's just make up some B.S lore that LAV's have. Electro magnetic bumpers that push people out the way. Boom. Problem solved.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1348	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:46:00 - [16] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: so free LAVs got removed sighs Not even close to that really. Free is relative. There are... at least three different LAV BPOs (Blood Raider, Ishukone Watch, etc.), and they're hardier than the militia ones were.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 44	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:31:00 - [17] - Quote I still think the easiest and simplest of solutions is better map design. I am tired of seeing those LAV's get everywhere on the map. Why are the stairs just wide enough for an LAV? Why are the containers big enough to fit one snugly? Why is it possible for an LAV to spin around a CRU? We need more cover to move from objective to objective and then near them. The maps we have are pretty much perfect for LAV's and that's something CCP should change.
Skipper Jones Molon Labe. League of Infamy 474	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:35:00 - [18] - Quote If you get run over, it should be a OHK. No need for feedback damage, No need for removal from all battles. Just nerf the resistance to AV.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 5071	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:24:00 - [19] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: so free LAVs got removed sighs Not even close to that really. Free is relative. There are... at least three different LAV BPOs (Blood Raider, Ishukone Watch, etc.), and they're hardier than the militia ones were. BPO does not mean free. I have to pay AUR to get the BPOs, so they aren't free.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2013.07.22 04:24:00 - [20] - Quote The gun on the back of the LAV should be a more powerful weapon than the front bumper. I agree with reducing collision damage. I also agree with removing free LAVs. It's not as if militia LAVs are expensive anyway. When/if they introduce those speeders I hope they are not free too.



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