DUST Search - Bad PC battle experience, advice needed!

Chunky Munkey wrote:

Without players who get along, and some team coordination on the warbarge, your corp isn't going anywhere.

If corp members are so averse to cooperation with others under your banner, your CEO needs to consider their membership.

Lack of a coherent strategy in a corp matches just will not get you by like it might in pubs.
Have your top killers formed up and always dedicated to the primary objective. Meanwhile you can have tankers, snipers etc, focused on throwing various spanners into the enemy machine (pestering outlying objectives & the like).

Making sure certain players spawn first grants a serious advantage. If everyone is queued up to spawn, 4 or 5 might deploy before their driver can.
Having the team hold 1st spawn until a scout can throw down an uplink, is probably the fastest and certainly the simplest way to get a significant force delivered to a distant point ASAP.

My number 1 tip for corp matches is this:
Uplinks are every tacticians wet dream. Having a nanohive on your suit isn't going to help when you're not likely to get more than 2 kills on average. Uplinks win corp battles, period. Have everybody throwing down a link on every respawn, and let the logis with their gauged & flux hives worry about getting supplies to important points.

All things considered, there always comes a point in battle when the strategy breaks down, and everybody does their own thing. Your responsibility as a team is to play competitively & co-operatively so often that "your own thing" ends up being an instinctive & mutual reliance on the blues at your side.

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Oofda Flips Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.10 05:26:00 - [1] - Quote Hey everyone, Long post, questions are at the bottom. I'm posting from an alt since so as not to offend any of my other corp members and to get some advice on how to proceed after a pretty ugly PC battle we experienced. Also, I'm a (comparatively) new Dust player compared to my corp mates so this post isn't indicative of my corp's knowledge of the game, but my own newbness. Our corp is not new, but we are new to PC battles and have only attempted one before. This was our 2nd PC battle and we thought we were going up against a corporation that was relatively equal to us in terms of K/D ratio and wins/members, etc. I won't name names as the point of this post is not to judge but to learn. We were all pretty excited about this PC battle and thought we stood a fair chance of winning, there was some trash talking on behalf of both our corp and the corp we were going into the battle against in the last couple days. When we eventually joined the battle, we saw that we would not be fighting against the corporation who owned the district, but rather an extremely experienced corporation in their alliance and only 3 members of the corp we were talking trash with. Needless to say, we got owned pretty hard. After the battle, a lot of my corp mates were pretty agitated and QQing about how unfair it was that they brought in their alliance to fight the battle for them and a lot of our corp felt duped. My guess is that this is pretty common practice, after all we attacked their district and they should use whatever means at their disposal to defeat us. After the battle, we received some fairly cordial GG messages from the opposition but our corp was still pretty disillusioned overall and I feel like it will be quite difficult to build morale back up after this. There was a lot of blame being passed around etc. etc. So here are my questions that I hope experienced corps can help us with: 1. How can we best train for PC battles? My intuition would be to split the corp into different squads of 6, with each squad having a ranking system within it (i.e. a hierarchy for who is squad lead if the main squad lead is not present). Then these squads of 6 can organize times to meet and run battles just to practice staying together and listening to orders. Is this a bad idea/good idea? Currently when we run battles as a corp we just run around everywhere and don't work on tactics and our squads are formed randomly, we have some talented players and a lot of players running proto but little to no organization. There are also a lot of players who don't like each other and when they are put in the same squad, it ruins everyone's fun. If this is a good idea, what's a good squad of 6 consist of? 2. We have a CEO who is a smart player and good guy, but is not on very much, so it is very difficult to form any long term strategies without him involved in the day to day. Any suggestions here? Do we need to assign more roles in our corp and delegate responsibility elsewhere? How are good corporations structured, what kind of positions are usually filled and how is responsibility delegated? 3. We are currently an English speaking corporation in a Russian speaking alliance, this to me is a big problem and I'm not really sure the reasoning behind this. We can communicate with them on a very basic level. How important is your alliance? 4. Another idea I had is to have a Google Drive group where we can collaborate on documents, squad lists, list strategies we use for different maps and compile lists of our players and their SP/builds. Is there an easier way to do this or would Google Drive work OK? Our corp has no website yet. 5. What is the best way to organize PC battles with other corporations who are also trying to learn? Are PC battles completely dominated by elite corporations? 6. Any other advice/resources you guys have that can help us? As it stands our corporation is in bad shape morale-wise, but by in large we like each other and want to succeed. Some of our players have been on less and less given that we're in a bit of a slump, we're bored of just grinding our SP and ISK every week, but we're not organized enough to compete with bigger alliances and corporations in PC battles. My intention is to gather information and develop a sound strategy and suggestions, and then mail this to our CEO in hopes that we can develop more structure, so any advice people have in this regard would be extremely helpful. Thanks in advance!
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 185	Posted - 2013.07.10 05:34:00 - [2] - Quote queue your 16 into faction warfare until you're very comfortable playing together all the time. that's the best way to prepare.
Oofda Flips Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.10 05:40:00 - [3] - Quote How do you get in to faction warfare as a squad of 16 without just being really lucky? It seems like these faction warfare battles fill up almost instantly.
C Saunders Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 410	Posted - 2013.07.10 05:52:00 - [4] - Quote Practice teamwork and co-ordination. Don't overstretch your team and dont go for more than 60% of the capture points. By that I mean if theres 3 capture points just get 2 etc.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 185	Posted - 2013.07.10 05:53:00 - [5] - Quote Oofda Flips wrote: How do you get in to faction warfare as a squad of 16 without just being really lucky? It seems like these faction warfare battles fill up almost instantly. you decide before the match goes live if you're going to play attacker or defender, then when a new match goes active, you fill the side you want with your squads. you should be able to get 12 in no problem
C Saunders Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 410	Posted - 2013.07.10 05:56:00 - [6] - Quote low genius wrote: Oofda Flips wrote: How do you get in to faction warfare as a squad of 16 without just being really lucky? It seems like these faction warfare battles fill up almost instantly. you decide before the match goes live if you're going to play attacker or defender, then when a new match goes active, you fill the side you want with your squads. you should be able to get 12 in no problem Lol, you sir, obviously dont try it much. They fill up in under 10 seconds when they appear.
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 64	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:01:00 - [7] - Quote You can always buy onto fight club for PC experience. We are also selling districts. Talk to CHICAGOCUBS4EVER. I wouldn't advise attacking that corp again btw.... :)
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 737	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:03:00 - [8] - Quote Without players who get along, and some team coordination on the warbarge, your corp isn't going anywhere. If corp members are so averse to cooperation with others under your banner, your CEO needs to consider their membership. Lack of a coherent strategy in a corp matches just will not get you by like it might in pubs. Have your top killers formed up and always dedicated to the primary objective. Meanwhile you can have tankers, snipers etc, focused on throwing various spanners into the enemy machine (pestering outlying objectives & the like). Making sure certain players spawn first grants a serious advantage. If everyone is queued up to spawn, 4 or 5 might deploy before their driver can. Having a scout sprint to a location and throw down an uplink, is probably the fastest and certainly the simplest way to get a significant force delivered to a point ASAP. My number 1 tip for corp matches is this: Uplinks are every tacticians wet dream. Having a nanohive on your suit isn't going to help when you're not likely to get more than 2 kills on average. Uplinks win corp battles, period. Have everybody throwing down a link on every respawn, and let the logis with their gauged & flux hives worry about getting supplies to important points. All things considered, there always comes a point in battle when the strategy breaks down, and everybody does their own thing. Your responsibility as a team is to play competitively & co-operatively so often that "your own thing" ends up being an instinctive & mutual reliance on the blues at your side.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 988	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:38:00 - [9] - Quote Pro tip of the week. Don't attack Hellstorm.
Oofda Flips Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:39:00 - [10] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: You can always buy onto fight club for PC experience. We are also selling districts. Talk to CHICAGOCUBS4EVER. I wouldn't advise attacking that corp again btw.... :) LOL. Yeah, we didn't know that's who we were going to be fighting. I still had fun as it was my first PC battle ever. Our corp is wary about the prospect of buying a district given that you guys can take back whatever you sell whenever you please in the future. We will keep it in mind though and see how the changes to PC play out.

Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 605	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:45:00 - [11] - Quote 1. Your best bet for training is linked with number 5. You can train in pub matches as much as you'd like, but fighting as a team of 16 against another team of 16 is basically the only way you're going to learn what PC is like. 2. If you're a small group (<100 players), the only delegation you probably need is a second in charge. The big focus for good corporate management is to make sure that you separate roles very distinctly, and that you DON'T GIVE ANYONE DIRECTOR UNLESS THEY REALLY NEED IT. 3. RUST415? Fenrir's Wolves or D-rezzed? Anyways, your alliance isn't very important if you're trying to train yourselves for PC. When the time comes that you want to take and hold territory for a long period of time, however, alliances represent the politics of New Eden. Without an alliance any district you take is going to look like an encroachment of territory to an already existing alliance, so you'll find yourself mercilessly attacked without friends. 4. Google Drive will technically work for this kind of thing, but most corps use a forum. You can use Enjin, but it's not necessarily the most secure option in the world. The more secure options are more expensive though. 5. This is as great as a way as any. That is, look on the forums and see who bites! You might even look into "planet fight club". You should find someone who will give you a district in Oddelulf for free. Above all, make sure that if you're going to arrange a battle the battle's actually arranged. Reach out to a corp before you attack them or your attacks will probably be interpreted as aggression when really you're just looking for training. 6. Any other advice/resources you guys have that can help us? My Skype name is parker.on.skype if you, or anybody else for that matter, have any PC related questions.
Oofda Flips Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:47:00 - [12] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Without players who get along, and some team coordination on the warbarge, your corp isn't going anywhere. If corp members are so averse to cooperation with others under your banner, your CEO needs to consider their membership. Lack of a coherent strategy in a corp matches just will not get you by like it might in pubs. Have your top killers formed up and always dedicated to the primary objective. Meanwhile you can have tankers, snipers etc, focused on throwing various spanners into the enemy machine (pestering outlying objectives & the like). Making sure certain players spawn first grants a serious advantage. If everyone is queued up to spawn, 4 or 5 might deploy before their driver can. Having the team hold 1st spawn until a scout can throw down an uplink, is probably the fastest and certainly the simplest way to get a significant force delivered to a distant point ASAP. My number 1 tip for corp matches is this: Uplinks are every tacticians wet dream. Having a nanohive on your suit isn't going to help when you're not likely to get more than 2 kills on average. Uplinks win corp battles, period. Have everybody throwing down a link on every respawn, and let the logis with their gauged & flux hives worry about getting supplies to important points. All things considered, there always comes a point in battle when the strategy breaks down, and everybody does their own thing. Your responsibility as a team is to play competitively & co-operatively so often that "your own thing" ends up being an instinctive & mutual reliance on the blues at your side. Thanks, this is really good advice. Right now we kind of throw people into squads based on who can make it, but it seems like we need a core 6 at least who work quite well together. None of us are really used to playing with the same squad again and again. We also had the problem of squad leaders not being super vocal about what to do, once the initial strategy broke down (which happened pretty fast), there wasn't really any regrouping or commands being given.
Draka Marintu TeamPlayers EoN. 63	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:49:00 - [13] - Quote Just keep it up team work comes with time and experience you'll eventually know what your teamates are gonna do before they do it and tbqh you often learn more from losing than you do winning
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5946	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:50:00 - [14] - Quote 1. To practice on your own, you guys need to play the game mode Domination, while unlike PC battles with multiple capture points it does stress the Emphasis of attack and defend the most since there is only one point, If a squad can hold one point, 3 and a portion can hold however many needed for PC battles. While PC fighting WATCH the enemy, see how they're doing and how, sometimes its not the skill of the hostile players beating the crud out of you but the tactics involved. Learn from every defeat. 2. Have him set up overall stratagems when he is on and start delegating active individuals of proper competence to do the day to day tasks of analytics and implementations. 3. Arent' there any other english speaking corps in your alliance? stick with them for support. 4. Titan Pad is also a good tool as well just make sure to protect it and only put stuff in it you can trust the entire corp with. Do not put stuff you only trust few select individuals with. Certainly keep opinion pieces out of it or emotional letters. 5. Socialize, meet with other CEOs and team up with them for every kind of match, sell yourselves for fodder if you have too in order to get more used to working with other corps that don't have the manpower to fight and defend everything. Though you may run the risk of member bleeding doing this so help out your own corp by reimbursing them when possible for their troubles. Not everyone in space is your enemy, some may be willing customers. 6. Start thinking of a corps wide security policy and recruiting standards. One bad hire can hurt very bad. Practice, observe, learn, create. Don't flower sale morale, bring your corp's expectations back to the ground and stop hyping up your own fights, the more your corp can laugh off a loss and actually enjoyed what happened the better.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 84	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:56:00 - [15] - Quote C Saunders wrote: low genius wrote: Oofda Flips wrote: How do you get in to faction warfare as a squad of 16 without just being really lucky? It seems like these faction warfare battles fill up almost instantly. you decide before the match goes live if you're going to play attacker or defender, then when a new match goes active, you fill the side you want with your squads. you should be able to get 12 in no problem Lol, you sir, obviously dont try it much. They fill up in under 10 seconds when they appear. It is achievable, sometimes it takes a few tries. Remember this is like a formal team practice so don't expect to do one of these every 5 mins. Plus this only teaches you coordination... you will most likely own the match easy as competition is disorganized. Don't get big heads. Learn the maps and get a hierarchy here. PC losses can be terrible but they still teach you a lot. You learn strategies for maps, what suits work well, and where you need work. Big Corps dominate PC because they have a lot of people and some good players with lots of experience, they will bring out their A game and have no qualms about grinding you into dirt. They too tire of fighting other big corps and a good rolling in a pc match helps morale. Don't take losing to heart, they are just lessons.
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 50	Posted - 2013.07.10 11:38:00 - [16] - Quote C Saunders wrote: low genius wrote: Oofda Flips wrote: How do you get in to faction warfare as a squad of 16 without just being really lucky? It seems like these faction warfare battles fill up almost instantly. you decide before the match goes live if you're going to play attacker or defender, then when a new match goes active, you fill the side you want with your squads. you should be able to get 12 in no problem Lol, you sir, obviously dont try it much. They fill up in under 10 seconds when they appear. you could try setting server to a server where it is currently deep in the night and simul-q a skirmish. You will not get much opposition but you can test tactics very well and if you go a few seconds apart you will end up against each other which is also good practice.
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers EoN. 769	Posted - 2013.07.10 13:13:00 - [17] - Quote Feel free to hit me up on Skype and I can help you guys out chicagocubsnbears a little busy today but I will get to it when I can and we can hook up. I cant speak for other established corps, but I know My crew doesn't pick a fight with the corps that are new to PC or those that don't come after us (we tend to take offense to aggression) on the other hand, there are corps like ourselves that try to be true to the 'mercenary' stereotype whenever possible, which means corp X comes to us and wants us to play for them, and they have the ISK that we request, then its done. I will NOT attack new corps tho. in case you didn't know I am diligently working to get new corps into PC, for them to have this experience, but yes going in blind is an expensive lesson. Faction Warfare.. you can get 12 but yes it takes some patience and takes time, but is the best way to practice. work on teamwork. the other thing is to run ambush OMS.. this helps improve each individual's gun game as it seems the most competitive matches in pubs are in OMS. any questions please hit me up or mail me in game and i'll do my best to answer them
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 65	Posted - 2013.07.10 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote Oofda Flips wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: You can always buy onto fight club for PC experience. We are also selling districts. Talk to CHICAGOCUBS4EVER. I wouldn't advise attacking that corp again btw.... :) LOL. Yeah, we didn't know that's who we were going to be fighting. I still had fun as it was my first PC battle ever. Our corp is wary about the prospect of buying a district given that you guys can take back whatever you sell whenever you please in the future. We will keep it in mind though and see how the changes to PC play out. If somebody sales to you and takes it back you could always post it on forums there are some people who stand by their word. The ones who don't always get what they have coming to them.
Exergonic TeamPlayers EoN. 153	Posted - 2013.07.10 16:19:00 - [19] - Quote Oofda Flips wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: You can always buy onto fight club for PC experience. We are also selling districts. Talk to CHICAGOCUBS4EVER. I wouldn't advise attacking that corp again btw.... :) LOL. Yeah, we didn't know that's who we were going to be fighting. I still had fun as it was my first PC battle ever. Our corp is wary about the prospect of buying a district given that you guys can take back whatever you sell whenever you please in the future. We will keep it in mind though and see how the changes to PC play out. Teamplayers will not steal back someone's district we sell/trade... And if there is ever a reason we think you shouldn't be on that planet anymore we offer district trade to get you in a safer area... We want to bring in life to PC not smother it... With that noted we are also pay to hire mercs and we will fight where ever the isk takes us... Xero and a few others are right... You can get a district on planet fight club to practice or you can que 2 full squads in FW
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 840	Posted - 2013.07.10 16:28:00 - [20] - Quote PC is a completely different game. If it helps I went 0-12 in my first PC battle.. that was with ~11 million SP as part of PFBHz (and they weren't a joke, some good players were in that battle). Suffice it to say, you just have no clue how different PC is until you play in a match. To be perfectly honest... I would say if you really are interested in PC and you wanna learn to play better with that corp... just start talking with other corps... ask them "can we attack you just once for some practice?" most corps will be happy to oblige just for fun, PC is a very easy and intuitive system that just allows you to set up the 'corp battles' of old. Ideally a corp match system where you could challenge another corp to a dual will eventually be the better way to do it... but until then, the PC system can suffice. Best way to learn PC is to play PC... i'm starting to get the hang of it now, and going positive sometimes. I do know my fps skills have increased a lot while with TP going against players like outer heaven, or going against hellstorm when I was in PFBHz. Don't let the loss hurt your morale, just keep playing, learning, getting better. And don't be afraid to lose suits... you die a lot in PC... just the nature of the game.

CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers EoN. 770	Posted - 2013.07.10 16:46:00 - [21] - Quote I'll tell you this, win or lose I learn something from EVERY match I play, and we discuss after each match what went well, what didn't and ideas on how to improve. We are very critical of ourselves even when we win. but starting out.. yes it takes lots of practice with your teammates. Planet Fight Club is almost full now as well. I believe Spero Escrow and Nyain San have a couple available and Not Guilty had 1 or 2 still looking for homes. TEAM only has 1 now, which we would like to keep for a while to set up matches ourselves to get some practice in... Yes Im not an Allen Iverson fan and yes we need practice ;)
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 187	Posted - 2013.07.10 17:06:00 - [22] - Quote C Saunders wrote: low genius wrote: Oofda Flips wrote: How do you get in to faction warfare as a squad of 16 without just being really lucky? It seems like these faction warfare battles fill up almost instantly. you decide before the match goes live if you're going to play attacker or defender, then when a new match goes active, you fill the side you want with your squads. you should be able to get 12 in no problem Lol, you sir, obviously dont try it much. They fill up in under 10 seconds when they appear. you sir, are confused. i do this on a nightly basis. just wait for a brand new match to start. i suppose it depends upon your timezone how quick they fill, but generally speaking it only takes 5 or 10 minutes for a new match to start.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 187	Posted - 2013.07.10 17:08:00 - [23] - Quote Oofda Flips wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: You can always buy onto fight club for PC experience. We are also selling districts. Talk to CHICAGOCUBS4EVER. I wouldn't advise attacking that corp again btw.... :) LOL. Yeah, we didn't know that's who we were going to be fighting. I still had fun as it was my first PC battle ever. Our corp is wary about the prospect of buying a district given that you guys can take back whatever you sell whenever you please in the future. We will keep it in mind though and see how the changes to PC play out. i know why you would say that, but EoN. isn't trying to scam anyone in pc.
Oofda Flips Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.07.11 06:05:00 - [24] - Quote Thanks for all the advice guys, I hope our corp can get over the loss and bruised egos. I think our mentality on PC battles has to change because a lot of our corp has unrealistic expectations of winning every battle. And I know that TeamPlayers has good intentions in promoting PC battles, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, but our corp isn't rich so we must consider all future risks. I'll hit some of you up on Skype for advice in the future, I think we need to focus on our leadership roles and corp structure and it would be interesting to hear how other corps are structured. We'll also look in to Planet Fight Club, hopefully we can become involved in this in the future. Thanks everyone for the really good advice.


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