DUST Search - Tired of Armor v Shield Tanking (Actual Tanks, gtfo Dropsuits)

Exmaple Core wrote:

Yeah, they really dont work with us at all and we are suffering for it. i dont want to play tanks anymore because of how lopsided, predictable, and non profitable it has become in this build. Ive yet to see any tanker disagree, wed all rather go infaintry. But, i have a double damage mod gunlogi and i have had many victorys, works in PC as well and in pubs with crazy AV. mind you im very tactical with it,and i even used to be able to destroy most armo tanks because before the triple SP event most armor tanks were not resist madrugers and now they are so im pretty boned. Nothing works anymore, period.

Also, i wouldent say that shield tanks need a speed buff but armor tanks need to go back to chromosome speed, shield tanks are were they are in chromosome speeds. Ill also point out that active sheild mods are unusable and are complete garbage that should never, ever be considered, no matter what. Their that bad, were armor hardners are what wins them all these battles. 10 sec activation time with a 30 sec cool down for 30% resist VS 1 min activation time with 30 sec cool down for 25% resist. not very fair, perhaps we can buff that durration of the shild hardners effictive use from 10 sec to 30 sec, that would be worth having and still no were near as powerful as armor mods. It needs to be at least half as effective., because passive resist is not strong enough to make the differnece for caldari. so buff passive hardners for caldari mods? one or the other, we need something to stand up to you guuys


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The Attorney General ZionTCD 269	Posted - 2013.07.10 00:38:00 - [1] - Quote Cy Clone1 wrote: armor tanks can increase cpu by 25% we are forced to use mods. I'm sorry, what?
The Attorney General ZionTCD 269	Posted - 2013.07.10 00:41:00 - [2] - Quote Knight SoIaire wrote: Just make the Shield Modules (Boosters and Hardeners in particular) match Armour modules. Nerfing Armour tanks will only make them worse Vs Armour Based AV, and they already are. That would make Armor tanks obsolete overnight. Why would I run a tank that is slightly faster without plates when I could run a tank that has better resistances to the two most popular forms of AV AND can run damage mods without completely sacrificing its tank? Not that I don't think shield tanks are UP right now, but I think we need to think about this about more thoroughly before we start throwing out possible solutions that the crackpots at CCP might take seriously.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 269	Posted - 2013.07.10 00:42:00 - [3] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Don't worry considering how terrible shield tanks have had it for such a long time, when they do a rebalance its going to swing in shields favor, and armor tankers like me who haven't spent diddly on shields are gunna be QQing. It has only been bad for them since uprising. In Chromosome a rail Gunloggi would eat a Madrugar for breakfast because of the broken stacking penalties and the damage mods. I don't doubt that anyone not in a gunloggi next build is going to suffer for it. That is why I am working on my shield skills instead of saving up for a pilot suit.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 326	Posted - 2013.07.10 15:36:00 - [4] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Yeah i have had the same experiences but instead i used a Falshion with proto missles and enforcer 3. shield tanks are so bad! like you said, they can not win using a fit specifically set up to be anti armor tanks. cant even beat the standard madrugar. its pathetic how unbalanced it is, this is why ppl want respecs. so their not horrendously screwed over by balancing issues Honestly though, running damage mods on a 'Loggi or a Falchion is pretty much suicide if you don't have someone running shield transporters. I think the only other way you can run a damage mod tank is if you are the anchor and you have another tank operating as a sweeper. Even then if the other team can get a good fix on you, you will get dropped. A tank with damage mods is not surviving an OB, or a forge gunner prepared to die in the redline to take it out. I am not really sure how we can go about getting a sort of balance between the two, but I think the first step is to remove the movement penalty from the Falchion entirely. Having it be that slow makes it completely useless as an "enforcer". The Gunloggi needs a speed bump as well, and both could use a bump in shield regen. None of that is going to really help it in combat vs a Madrugar though, and that is where the problem lies. Just saying Shield tanks are for anti-infantry work and armor tanks are for AT doesn't seem like a good solution. It would be great if the vehicle devs were not so MIA so we could get a better understanding of what they intend the vehicles to be.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 329	Posted - 2013.07.10 16:04:00 - [5] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Yeah, they really dont work with us at all and we are suffering for it. i dont want to play tanks anymore because of how lopsided, predictable, and non profitable it has become in this build. Ive yet to see any tanker disagree, wed all rather go infaintry. But, i have a double damage mod gunlogi and i have had many victorys, works in PC as well and in pubs with crazy AV. mind you im very tactical with it,and i even used to be able to destroy most armo tanks because before the triple SP event most armor tanks were not resist madrugers and now they are so im pretty boned. Nothing works anymore, period. Also, i wouldent say that shield tanks need a speed buff but armor tanks need to go back to chromosome speed, shield tanks are were they are in chromosome speeds. Ill also point out that active sheild mods are unusable and are complete garbage that should never, ever be considered, no matter what. Their that bad, were armor hardners are what wins them all these battles. 10 sec activation time with a 30 sec cool down for 30% resist VS 1 min activation time with 30 sec cool down for 25% resist. not very fair, perhaps we can buff that durration of the shild hardners effictive use from 10 sec to 30 sec, that would be worth having and still no were near as powerful as armor mods. It needs to be at least half as effective., because passive resist is not strong enough to make the differnece for caldari. so buff passive hardners for caldari mods? one or the other, we need something to stand up to you guuys Actually, I very much enjoy tanking in this build. I enjoy the challenge of fighting off AV that I know can destroy me very quickly if I make a mistake. It can be very difficult, and there are times where everything goes wrong in a match, but generally I am having lots of fun tanking. I do agree that active resists on shield tanks are completely worthless. Before 1.2, any time I saw a shield tank activate hardeners, I knew they were dead. As for changes to hardeners, giving shield tankers a 30 active 30 cooldown doesn't seem out of balance to me, as it still allows armor tanks to have the staying power that we think the devs want them to have. However, does it really make a difference in a tank 1 v 1? Look at the match we had the other day. Would having better resists got you out of there? Sort of a split. The first Loggi you lost would have gotten away to cover if you had better resists, and the first Falchion might have made it back into the deployment. The second one would have been popped anyway, because I was able to close you down enough that you couldn't run away. The next Gunloggi would have gone down anyway because you got between two tanks, and the last gunloggi was going to die because I knew you were coming and had all my modules ready for you. So out of those 5 tanks, resists would have kept one alive, might have kept a second alive, and would have made that last fight closer. Now, I have to ask, were you running damage mods on those blaster gunnloggis at the end? If so, maybe running the PG extenders to get some more HP would be a better solution? That raises the different issue of why have damage mods if no one can run them without getting popped, but I am just trying to figure out if there is some area where there is a viability for shield tanking that we may have missed. Because as it stands, I am in agreement with you that shield tanks need love, but I don't know if just bumping the resists would be enough. I'm thinking crazy here, but how much more PG would a shield tank need from base to be be able to run an extender and a booster with one damage mod? That could open up a whole new can of worms, but I can't really think of a good way of levelling the field without doing some drastic stuff.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 329	Posted - 2013.07.10 16:13:00 - [6] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Speed will not help you in a tank battle. You cant run away and shoot the enemy tank chasing you at the same time, oul run into stuff and blow yourself. But yeah, buffing missles would do something, then we can win using our races preferred weapon. the same weapon that is supposed to beat armor tanks, and doesn't now.... Buffing missiles makes sense, as having a turret that is there to counter the biggest threat to a shield tank makes sense. Having little experience with missiles, is there a specific turret that could be buffed to make it more lethal to tanks without making life to hard on the AR toting masses? Also, being able to drive without looking is a skill that most tank drivers should really work on. There are times and places on certain maps where being able to reliably fire while retreating is a proper tactic, and critical to your survival. Although I have lost more than a couple of tanks to using that tactic carelessly. That and the whole turning the barrel while going through a narrow gap causing your tank to have a seizure perpendicular to the ground.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 330	Posted - 2013.07.10 16:41:00 - [7] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Yeah you wrecked me pretty hard that match, no wounder your enjoying tanking your armor yess i was running 2 damage mods on a scattered neutron blaster. i can only do this because i have a fully maxed out tank, and i ran the numbers to find this fit i have here does the most damage possible for a gunlogi in uprising because you simply can not fit anything better for damage. As far as my ability to tank i have a 33.5% passive resist and a heavy converse rep (2ed best) and 4623 shields. So if you spend 16 mill SP into your caldari tank like i have than you can run a workable damage mod tank but as youve seen its still trash. If i could have more resist i still would have lost i agree but buffing the shield resist would help out, at least would have got away lol. I agree, more work still needs to be done. Maby increase the Reping ability to be more on par to your armor mods, ithe heavy clarity sheild rep is the best rep for us and it gives us 328 HP per second for 5 seconds. thats a total of 1640 HP. In that fit i was using the heavy converse, the step under that and it pulses 271 for a total of 1355. these reps basically dont make a difference, youl still pop me in a few seconds and a forge will shoot that all off in 2 seconds I wouldn't say I wrecked you, I just knew that you would be running a shield tank, and brought out my rail. I assumed correctly that you would run a blaster out of the gate, and was able to close you down early enough. The Falchion is ridiculously UP right now, just slightly better than the vayu. So those were not your fault. That second Gunloggi almost had me, if not for my squad having an OB you would have got me I think, and the last one, as said before was just me having me all my modules ready and a good idea of how you were going to try and flank me. The other thing to consider is that although you have all your SP into shield tanks, I put all mine into armor tanks. When Uprising first dropped I had dabbled a bit in to some shield skills, but when I got my respec I went full armor, maxing all the skills. The difference in reps is staggering. I don't think they should be equal, but there is no reason why a shield booster can not even top you up half way while my efficient heavy rep can repair to full a 180 poly plate as long as I am not too deep into armor burn. So I think we as tankers can all agree the shield tanks need a buff to their hardeners to make active resists even an option for shield tankers. At the very lest they need to last half as long as the armor hardeners, with an equal cooldown. The next question is how much should the booster actual repair, because right now, the passive regen is not enough even with reps for a shield tank to even hope to survive from a madrugar with an active heat sink(which is every rail tank). Right now shield tanks have worse speed, worse reps, worse hardeners, lower eHP, and the only plus the have is the resistances to AV. So other than saying shield tanks should fight other tanks (which is stupid), what is the plan from CCP for shield tanks? Actually, how are the shield transporters? Is there some hidden gem in there that would make a pair or triumvirate of Gunloggis viable? haven't really looked at them and not near my PS3 right now so I can't look it up.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 331	Posted - 2013.07.10 17:14:00 - [8] - Quote [quote=gbh08] Heavy clarity ward ST lvl 3 48 cpu 532 pg 393 hp\s /quote] Yeah, those are not good enough. If the shield transporter can't even keep up with a heavy efficient then spider tanking goes to the armor tankers as well. That makes almost no sense. This is where we really need Blam to come and tell us what the dev team was thinking when they made these setups. Thanks for the info BTW, much appreciated.