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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
495
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 15:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Don't care which, just make them behave as should.
Assault rifles are rifles, not SMGs. I don't know where you get this idea anything Gallente must be shortrange by definition. Cat Merc wrote: Bud, most of the weapons are hit scan. Only stuff like the godlock, the mass driver, the forge gun, etc', are not hit scan.
Also, this. I can't imagine how aiming at the thing you're trying to kill is Cheesier than aiming in the general area and relying on splash damage.
Short range for rifles is a lot different than short range for SMGs. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
495
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Buster Friently wrote: Hitscan weapons are cheeze. The AR is EZ mode partially because of this. Most of the weapons are hitscan, which makes them easier, but most of the hitscan weapons have drawbacks that help. ARs don't really.
Like? Overheating? As one example.
Well the Gallente gotta have something that isn't a POS right? |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
498
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Posted - 2013.07.09 16:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Gallente AR and the ASCR are almost the exact same gun, except the ASCR is a little bit slower and does more damage to shields. The Gallente AR has 0.36% more DPS than the ASCR, but the ASCR has more accuracy. The ranges I do agree are messed up, but in reality the ASCR should have higher range and lower DPS, while the Gallente AR should have lower range and higher DPS. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
498
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Just curious to see if any of you know what plasma (what the Gallente AR fires) is composed of? Plasma is composed of subatomic particles traveling a near light speeds. Light travels at roughly 186,000 mil/sec. Now with the distances involved in combat in Dust, the time to target, for anything fired from an AR would be imperceivable. Not to mention other weapons, such as the scrambler rifle and laser rifle, which fire munitions bases on laser technology: photons traveling inside a wave, taveling at literaly the speed of light.
I imagine that the Caldari rail rifle will not be a hit scan weapon, just as the rail turret has projectile flight time. But then again I could be wrong; the SMG fires a projectile as well and I believe it is also hit scan (which makes no sence). But I am not entirely sure about the SMG (such short distances involved) I could be wrong.
Plasma also disperses rapidly in the atmosphere so a short range plasma weapon makes sense.
On the DPS side it could be a projectile that generates plasma on impact, but that would mean it would have some sort of splash damage and DOT effects because plasma is extremely hot and would probably melt armor since our armor is made of steel . And depending how many volts are being discharged it could completely fry anything that is electronic or at least disrupt it. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
500
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Just curious to see if any of you know what plasma (what the Gallente AR fires) is composed of? Plasma is composed of subatomic particles traveling a near light speeds. Light travels at roughly 186,000 mil/sec. Now with the distances involved in combat in Dust, the time to target, for anything fired from an AR would be imperceivable. Not to mention other weapons, such as the scrambler rifle and laser rifle, which fire munitions bases on laser technology: photons traveling inside a wave, taveling at literaly the speed of light.
I imagine that the Caldari rail rifle will not be a hit scan weapon, just as the rail turret has projectile flight time. But then again I could be wrong; the SMG fires a projectile as well and I believe it is also hit scan (which makes no sence). But I am not entirely sure about the SMG (such short distances involved) I could be wrong. Plasma also disperses rapidly in the atmosphere so a short range plasma weapon makes sense. On the DPS side it could be a projectile that generates plasma on impact, but that would mean it would have some sort of splash damage and DOT effects because plasma is extremely hot and would probably melt armor since our armor is made of steel . And depending how many volts are being discharged it could completely fry anything that is electronic or at least disrupt it. Actually Amarr heavy armor is made from steel. Gallente use some kind of organic material. Think carbon nanotubes.
If the Gallente truly used carbon compounds as armor we would not have speed penalties. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
500
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vickers S Grunt wrote:I very much doubt any of the suits are made from anything as boring as steel
Well right now in 2013 we know of certain carbon chains that are lighter but have chemical bonds stronger than that of steel. Thus if this applied to this game, a armor suit would actually be faster and stronger than a shield suit that would probably have to carry bulky electronics to generate the shield. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
507
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Just curious to see if any of you know what plasma (what the Gallente AR fires) is composed of? Plasma is composed of subatomic particles traveling a near light speeds. Light travels at roughly 186,000 mil/sec. Now with the distances involved in combat in Dust, the time to target, for anything fired from an AR would be imperceivable. Not to mention other weapons, such as the scrambler rifle and laser rifle, which fire munitions bases on laser technology: photons traveling inside a wave, taveling at literaly the speed of light.
I imagine that the Caldari rail rifle will not be a hit scan weapon, just as the rail turret has projectile flight time. But then again I could be wrong; the SMG fires a projectile as well and I believe it is also hit scan (which makes no sence). But I am not entirely sure about the SMG (such short distances involved) I could be wrong. Plasma also disperses rapidly in the atmosphere so a short range plasma weapon makes sense. On the DPS side it could be a projectile that generates plasma on impact, but that would mean it would have some sort of splash damage and DOT effects because plasma is extremely hot and would probably melt armor since our armor is made of steel . And depending how many volts are being discharged it could completely fry anything that is electronic or at least disrupt it. Actually, if you read thedescription for the AR I do believe that it says that the AR fires a projectile that guides the plasma (via some kind of magnetic containment I would imagine). However this projectile would have to be traveling exceedingly fast, or the plasma would simply bottleneck and disperse in atmosphere. Sic-fi , not so convincing when you know a good deal about physics
True that, although if it wasnt for Sci-fi we wouldn't think of a lot of the crazy technology we have now. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
507
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Vickers S Grunt wrote:I very much doubt any of the suits are made from anything as boring as steel Well right now in 2013 we know of certain carbon chains that are lighter but have chemical bonds stronger than that of steel. Thus if this applied to this game, a armor suit would actually be faster and stronger than a shield suit that would probably have to carry bulky electronics to generate the shield. The Gallente suit armor is made out of an organic compound. The plates aren't.
:I that's just silly now, its like using a proto compressed rail gun, but as a caveat it shoots rocks. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
507
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Vickers S Grunt wrote:I very much doubt any of the suits are made from anything as boring as steel Well right now in 2013 we know of certain carbon chains that are lighter but have chemical bonds stronger than that of steel. Thus if this applied to this game, a armor suit would actually be faster and stronger than a shield suit that would probably have to carry bulky electronics to generate the shield. The Gallente suit armor is made out of an organic compound. The plates aren't. :I that's just silly now, its like using a proto compressed rail gun, but as a caveat it shoots rocks. Well. The plates are also made to work with Amarr suits. Which are made out of stuff that slows them down. Which is why they are slower :X
Typical CCP hating the Gallente. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
509
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote: Honestly, that's what I see reactive plates as, but they need some work to actually be viable for that role.
Thats what I saw reactives as also but they use way to much CPU/PG to be useful and the HP they offer is to low. They should offer the same HP as shield extenders , 1/2/3 repair rates, 0/1/2 movement penalties, and CPU/PG costs between enhanced and complex armor plates and repairers or a racial bonus for Gallente and Amarr to lower CPU/PG costs of plates by 35%.
This would in turn, make the Gallente have the same survivability and combat efficiency as the Caldari, except we are armor tanking so we are still susceptible to be one shotted by explosives, our HP regenerates faster in the short run, but in the long run the Caldari get more HP regenerated, and with a 2% movement penalty we actually suffer a overall 6% penalty for 4 plates.
It would also make the Amarr amazing dual tanks and not crappy shield tanks. |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
509
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Look at the most recent dev post, I wish we got that type of dev post when it comes to infantry balance. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
509
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Look at the most recent dev post, I wish we got that type of dev post when it comes to infantry balance. That's exactly what I was thinking. As far as the Reactive Plates, you'll see in the balance suggestion thread that Cat Merc and I put together that he suggests doubling the HP of Reactive Plates. That would mean you would get 90 hp per plate at the Proto level, 25 less than the Proto standard plates, but you get the repair function in exchange. If I recall correctly, and I may be wrong on the number, Reactive Plates rep 2 hp/s at the Proto level. That would mean that with no other changes made, a Gallente Assault suit with 4 Reactive Plates would have 360 hp, and rep that hp at 8 hp/s. Aaaaaaand now we're off-topic. On the original topic, I think that giving the AR-type weapons similar absolute ranges but differing amounts of damage falloff over range would probably work best to differentiate them, but still make them all viable such that you aren't forced to spec into other races to be competitive. So, for instance, the Gallente AR-type weapons would have the lowest damage output at Absolute range, but the highest damage up close, and a more dramatic drop-off to damage output as you get further from your target.
I think once all the weapons are released they will fall into place, but all the weapons need a slight damage buff and some balancing nerfs/buffs with ranges. Also strafing speeds while ADS need to be toned down because it really defeats the purpose of some weapons.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
522
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 18:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Look at the most recent dev post, I wish we got that type of dev post when it comes to infantry balance. That's exactly what I was thinking. As far as the Reactive Plates, you'll see in the balance suggestion thread that Cat Merc and I put together that he suggests doubling the HP of Reactive Plates. That would mean you would get 90 hp per plate at the Proto level, 25 less than the Proto standard plates, but you get the repair function in exchange. If I recall correctly, and I may be wrong on the number, Reactive Plates rep 2 hp/s at the Proto level. That would mean that with no other changes made, a Gallente Assault suit with 4 Reactive Plates would have 360 hp, and rep that hp at 8 hp/s. Aaaaaaand now we're off-topic. On the original topic, I think that giving the AR-type weapons similar absolute ranges but differing amounts of damage falloff over range would probably work best to differentiate them, but still make them all viable such that you aren't forced to spec into other races to be competitive. So, for instance, the Gallente AR-type weapons would have the lowest damage output at Absolute range, but the highest damage up close, and a more dramatic drop-off to damage output as you get further from your target. I think once all the weapons are released they will fall into place, but all the weapons need a slight damage buff and some balancing nerfs/buffs with ranges. Also strafing speeds while ADS need to be toned down because it really defeats the purpose of some weapons. I think what we really need is an increased to dispersion build-rate while in ADS using a fully-automatic weapon. Right now, you can nearly empty your magazine before the dispersion starts to kick in. I think you should really start having to think about letting go of the trigger for a second by the time you get to the 15th round at the very least.
That would make strafe fights last longer :(
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