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Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.07.07 16:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you really think about it, if we open player markets, op items/weapons would more likely go up than 10x the cost they are now due to simple demand and supply mechanics. Due to the time delay between CCP nerfing OP weapons and the rest of us having to suffer from them (or even going the other way and having to suffer a hard nerf), having the player market dictate prices might bring us more balancing, like seeing funny things like a sidearm worth more than a dropship. Not that would happen but you get the idea, the less wanted suits and weapons become dirt cheap and the Fotm (or year) will cost you an arm and a leg due to its overall superiority over all other weapons.
And if CCP doesn't think a weapon ABC should be at such a ridiculous price, then it needs to fix it. It would also be more information for players to look at when they look at weapon popularity.
Any thoughts? |
Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Cruxio wrote:If you really think about it, if we open player markets, op items/weapons would more likely go up than 10x the cost they are now due to simple demand and supply mechanics. Due to the time delay between CCP nerfing OP weapons and the rest of us having to suffer from them (or even going the other way and having to suffer a hard nerf), having the player market dictate prices might bring us more balancing, like seeing funny things like a sidearm worth more than a dropship. Not that would happen but you get the idea, the less wanted suits and weapons become dirt cheap and the Fotm (or year) will cost you an arm and a leg due to its overall superiority over all other weapons.
And if CCP doesn't think a weapon ABC should be at such a ridiculous price, then it needs to fix it. It would also be more information for players to look at when they look at weapon popularity.
Any thoughts? You don't understand what a player run market is/how it works at all. If there is a player run market, where exactly did you think players would gather the guns that would be sold on such a market?? Where exactly?? we get 99% of all our weapons on NPC markets now, so without the NPC market nobody would get things to sell, and you cant make it all based off the reward system after matches because that's not a reliable/stable way of getting guns that you want to use. So then what? Player run markets are 80% based off a games industry section (the other 20% goes to loot gained in PVE). So Before a player run market even becomes a thought, CCP needs to introduce an industry side to the game. Industry = the player's ability to obtain raw materials from mining/exploring and turn them into weapons/gear in production facilities. Depending on how much/how rare the minerals required to make a weapon are, the weapons price will then go up or down. Slapping a "player market" into the game right now is literally IMPOSSIBLE, and just because its there doesn't mean "OP" weapons would become more expensive. In fact OP weapons could become even cheaper depending on the availability of the raw materials needed to create such weapons. God, the fact that I have to explain this at all makes me think somebody in a random chat channel said "player markets would fix the games" and you just took the idea and went with it. Markets, as you said, are effected by demand, but there equally effected by the supply...... its called "supply AND demand" If everyone wants one suit, the prices will go up, but if everyone wants the suit AND the minerals are hard to come by to make it, then the prices will go up even more. But as for balancing...... CCP has said MULTIPLE times that "changing isk values is not how they want to balance in-game items" and its as simple as that.
Your criticisms are entirely flat,
1) Eve online already has manufacturing built into the game, they would build our equipment and we buy it from them (you either don't play eve online or you purposefully or ignorantly neglected this aspect), the rarity of materials has not been disclosed, so the supply portion is not in question. The only thing needed is a venue for player interaction which we already have chat rooms with eve players.
2) Suffering from FotM and OP weapons aren't part of CCP's design either but having markets dictate OP and effectiveness would help reduce their Opness until CCP gets their buts moving on the matter and fixed said weapons. |
Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 17:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:The other problem to consider is that DUST mercs can't currently move themselves to other systems in the game. Thus the only place EVE players could reasonably sell their wares to Dust players is in those handful of systems. This becomes problematic because then the separate markets would introduce natural imbalance. For example Caldari players, who I believe have their system very close to Jita would probably have the cheapest prices just based on their proximity to such a central location. Unless there is some way for a merc to be able to access different markets (or all access one market) then the system would be rather against the whole idea of the player market system since buyers lose their ability to shop around.
So either they have to have some universal store that shows all regions (which doesn't seem like the code can currently do based on EVE) or they introduce a way for DUST players to use the map to "move" themselves to a different region. However if there is some sort of time delay on moving (such as over down time) then players would all just concentrate in the central market. (Such as Jita)
Correct, they would need either all the stores or some other method to shop around the different regions, I don't pretend to know what the limitations are for Eve to support that. |
Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 17:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cruxio wrote:Marston VC wrote:Cruxio wrote:If you really think about it, if we open player markets, op items/weapons would more likely go up than 10x the cost they are now due to simple demand and supply mechanics. Due to the time delay between CCP nerfing OP weapons and the rest of us having to suffer from them (or even going the other way and having to suffer a hard nerf), having the player market dictate prices might bring us more balancing, like seeing funny things like a sidearm worth more than a dropship. Not that would happen but you get the idea, the less wanted suits and weapons become dirt cheap and the Fotm (or year) will cost you an arm and a leg due to its overall superiority over all other weapons.
And if CCP doesn't think a weapon ABC should be at such a ridiculous price, then it needs to fix it. It would also be more information for players to look at when they look at weapon popularity.
Any thoughts? You don't understand what a player run market is/how it works at all. If there is a player run market, where exactly did you think players would gather the guns that would be sold on such a market?? Where exactly?? we get 99% of all our weapons on NPC markets now, so without the NPC market nobody would get things to sell, and you cant make it all based off the reward system after matches because that's not a reliable/stable way of getting guns that you want to use. So then what? Player run markets are 80% based off a games industry section (the other 20% goes to loot gained in PVE). So Before a player run market even becomes a thought, CCP needs to introduce an industry side to the game. Industry = the player's ability to obtain raw materials from mining/exploring and turn them into weapons/gear in production facilities. Depending on how much/how rare the minerals required to make a weapon are, the weapons price will then go up or down. Slapping a "player market" into the game right now is literally IMPOSSIBLE, and just because its there doesn't mean "OP" weapons would become more expensive. In fact OP weapons could become even cheaper depending on the availability of the raw materials needed to create such weapons. God, the fact that I have to explain this at all makes me think somebody in a random chat channel said "player markets would fix the games" and you just took the idea and went with it. Markets, as you said, are effected by demand, but there equally effected by the supply...... its called "supply AND demand" If everyone wants one suit, the prices will go up, but if everyone wants the suit AND the minerals are hard to come by to make it, then the prices will go up even more. But as for balancing...... CCP has said MULTIPLE times that "changing isk values is not how they want to balance in-game items" and its as simple as that. Your criticisms are entirely flat, 1) Eve online already has manufacturing built into the game, they would build our equipment and we buy it from them (you either don't play eve online or you purposefully or ignorantly neglected this aspect), the rarity of materials has not been disclosed, so the supply portion is not in question. The only thing needed is a venue for player interaction which we already have chat rooms with eve players. 2) Suffering from FotM and OP weapons aren't part of CCP's design either but having markets dictate OP and effectiveness would help reduce their Opness until CCP gets their buts moving on the matter and fixed said weapons. How long have you been playing EVE? You realize that Shuttles give a tidy profit when sold for only 50k, right? Go enough jumps out from market hubs and you can't get them for less than a few million. That's bad news for a shooter.
You're assuming the rewards and cost for Dust equipment would remain the same on both sides of the market. Mind you like the eye monocle in Eve, dust pricing might make zero sense in the EVE world until CCP could figure out something (either bumping Dust awards or anything else), but it would serve as a balance for popular weapons as you mentioned with major price changes in weapons. |
Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 17:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Simple solution, build what you use.
And that is your reason going down the toilet, but I'm not saying I wouldn't love an open market.
While it would be interesting if they gave us some sort of industrial or production mechanic, I was under the impression that would be entirely an Eve function. |
Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 18:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
ladwar wrote:you don't know how marketing goes then. take mushroom for example. high demand but higher supply so cost is low. take Escargot, low demand high supply so cost is higher then it should be. suppliers jack prices up on stuff that doesn't sell as well to keep a market and on a high demand market price is lower closer to cost to sell theirs over other peoples. stuff that is OP is going to drop right down to near raw goods cost while stuff that doesn't is going to cost more, much more. this is in the long term. short term things that sell well are going to burst up till supply meets demand then its going to drop much harder then it bursts up. but i think you mean over a long term period and well your point is just wrong in every way.
Over the long term CCP should be changing the weapons to balance things out more, the mechanic as mentioned here was my possible solution to FotM. If we go over Dust's history of OP weapons, they don't last much longer than 3 months, nerfing and super buffs are the way of dust at the moment, this would serve as a time buffer for CCP to correct. Thus stable weapons would if anything be more predictable for the more conservative markets. The fact that people are holding off sp wise on cal logis or flaylocks was because they expect a nerf, which goes to show how chaotic of an environment we are in, meaning we really don't have a long term as of yet. It also wouldn't be a bad thing to have dust side production with the cost of time vs eve cost of resources, but I haven't heard anything about dust side production as of yet. |
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