|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
290
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 17:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
dman the great wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:dman the great wrote:CCP this core flaylock is not a gun its an abomination; people are walking around with it and one shoting people without competition, it makes the game no fun to play and those of us who play fair and use other weapons just get left to rot in the flaylocks waste, Please lower the splash and direct hit damage or remove it all together, people are being slaughtered by it more than HMG's witch are meant to slaughter!
Please like this if you agree It can only one shot scouts and badly fit militia suits...and even then, only if it hits directly. That's of course assuming that scout/militia is at full health. If he isn't at full health, he shouldn't be whining about a OHK. Also, you need to reload after only 3 shots...and you need to hit with splash 3 times at least to kill anything decently fit. Direct hits are rare unless the opponent is a ****** who stands still or moves in a very predicable way...mostly because of bullet flight time. It takes a lot of skill to lead that gun correctly against non idiot opponents. As for dps, while the flaylock's per shot damage is higher, dps isn't higher than for the smg or scrambler pistol for that matter. Again, the bullet flight time and small magazine are major drawbacks...and against well fit opponents who don't move predictably like idiots, the core isn't op. You're asking for a nerf simply because you haven't figured out how to counter it yet...or your fit sucks. It's a PROTOTYPE level gun, it's supposed to be good. Have you tried the scrambler pistol at that level? Headshots OHK a ton just like the flaylock. Dude for one no not just scouts get 1 OHK I have 500 armor and 175 shields I loose shields very quikly but when a core flaylock shows up the practicly never existed because he instantly drops me with one shot, for example I was going from Alpha to Bravo on ashland and got sniped by a core flaylcok sitting in the crowsnest, had full shields, had full armor, so please explain to me how the core flaylock is not OP if it can one shot 500+ armor and 175 shields? hmm?
i use core flaylocks and can tell you i will never take out some with 500 shield and 175 armor with just splash damage even with proficincy at lvl5.
the problem is that people carry two of them and spam it close quarters the damage and splash is fine. the flaylocks are meant to stop AR noobs from running people over close range, just like a pistol or SMG.
main point: what the flaylocks (basic to PROTO) really need is a reload speed increase (instead of reloading at 2.5 seconds make it 3.5 or 4 seconds) and a blast radius increase of .5 meters per lvl5.
because the blast radius is suppose to be small but not so small that you need a direct hit, because that defeats the point to using a rocket pistol if i have to hit you directly why not just use a scrambler pistol?, have you seen the breach scrambler pistol it does 135 damage per shot in close range, and can hold 12 bullets... the flaylocks do 200+ damage but only hold 3 in one clip. with a 1 meter blast radius its hard to hit lightening fast caldari logis (such as yourself) moving all over the place. giving the flaylocks a blast radius increase of .5 and a reload speed of 3.5 seconds can help stop spammers as they need to actually aim to hit you, at the same time it wont be nerfed to the point where it is usesless
|
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:dman the great wrote:CCP this core flaylock is not a gun its an abomination; people are walking around with it and one shoting people without competition, it makes the game no fun to play and those of us who play fair and use other weapons just get left to rot in the flaylocks waste, Please lower the splash and direct hit damage or remove it all together, people are being slaughtered by it more than HMG's witch are meant to slaughter!
Please like this if you agree It can only one shot scouts and badly fit militia suits...and even then, only if it hits directly. That's of course assuming that scout/militia is at full health. If he isn't at full health, he shouldn't be whining about a OHK. Also, you need to reload after only 3 shots...and you need to hit with splash 3 times at least to kill anything decently fit. Direct hits are rare unless the opponent is a ****** who stands still or moves in a very predicable way...mostly because of bullet flight time. It takes a lot of skill to lead that gun correctly against non idiot opponents. As for dps, while the flaylock's per shot damage is higher, dps isn't higher than for the smg or scrambler pistol for that matter. Again, the bullet flight time and small magazine are major drawbacks...and against well fit opponents who don't move predictably like idiots, the core isn't op. You're asking for a nerf simply because you haven't figured out how to counter it yet...or your fit sucks. It's a PROTOTYPE level gun, it's supposed to be good. Have you tried the scrambler pistol at that level? Headshots OHK a ton just like the flaylock.
^^this is 100% correct.
THE FLAYLOCKS DO IN ONE CLIP THE SAME DAMAGE A SCRAMBLER PISTOL OR SMG WOULD DO IN ONE CLIP.
the flaylocks are exactly the same the reload speed is abit high but thats about it. people QQ saying oh it only takes one clip from a proto flaylock to kill a heavy etc... the dps on a flaylock and SMG an scrambler psitol is eactly the same.
flaylocks do 220 per shot lets say... x 3 in one clip = 660damage in one clip SMG does 25 x 80 in one clip = 2000 damage in one clip scrambler pistol does 78 per shot x 12 in one clip = 936 in one clip.
now remember the flay locks did not get the 10% buff all other weapons did so the actual unmodified dps is:
1. flaylocks: 660 per clip, dps = damage per shot which is 220 2. SMG: 2200 per clip, 416.7 dps 3. scrambler pistols 78, 520 dps ( i forgot the actual rate of fire, i think its 400)
either way in practice the flaylock can fir its entire clip in a little faster than 2seconds making the dps slightly higher, but its actual dps is lower than the SMG and scrambler pistols.
flaylocks are explosives and are designed for splash damage, etc... it does its damage in chunks instead of chip damage get over it.
the flaylocks do need a reload speed increase to 3.5 or 4seconds because it reloads much faster than the other secondaries. however if this becomes true it should get a raduis buff by .5m. |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Buster Friently wrote:calisk galern wrote:Munin-Frey wrote:They are obviously OP. That being said I don't mind them much.... They should have some downside. That guy who said they are hard to aim is full of it. The problem is that you can pop off three rounds quickly and nobody sticks around for the third shot so who cares how long the reload is. Personally I think they should do 25 points of damage per shot to the person using it. Anyone who has launched fireworks rockets from your hand knows how bad it hurts as they blast away. takes 6 shots to kill alot of proto heavies. 4-5 for caldari logis, 4 for most other proto shield tankers, 2-3 for most armor tankers Yes, translated, this is: 2 magazines for proto heavies 1.5 magazines for caldari logis 1.5 magazines for shield tankers 1 magazine for most armor tankers These numbers are incorrect. 3-4 shots for heavies (3 if they are using dmg mods, 4 if they stack shield extenders) 2-3 shots for Caladari Logi's (2 shots if they have anything equiped other than 5x complex shield extenders, plates do not matter) 2-3 shots for all shield tankers 2 shots for all armor tankers. Also remember minmitar assaults have 4 shots in a clip due to racial bonus, and the term magazine is misleading as most of the time the weapon is duel weilded and with switching weapons being instant now the true clip size is between 6-8 shots depending on if you are using a minmitar assault suit or not. i'll admit my proficiency in the weapon is only level 2 but I use 3 damage mods, and it still takes 5-6 shots to kill most well speced proto heavies and caldari logis, don't get me wrong though I do find heavies that can drop in 4 shots, and I find logis that drop in one. but the ones I come across in pc, or in pub stomping proto fits, tend to take the numbers I supplied.
now compare this verses how an SMG or a crambler pistol of the same level would perform in the same situations.
if the person is moving predictably or standing still of course they are going to do. if they are i a firefight and lossing sheilds aromr etc, of course it will kill them.
really alot of people get upset because they are bunnyhopping around and while this makes them invincible to most weapons due to hit detection issues, flaylocks still hit them. (jumping actually does affect hit detetion not to the point invincibility but it does give an unfair edge to faster suits namely shield tankers.
i have core flaylocks, adv flaylocks and regular flaylocks. i honestly tell NO ONE uses the regular flaylocks becaue they are terrible..lol
i use them just to be different i specc'd into flaylocks before it was cool. thanks to the ncreased movement speed of players, and poor hit detection combined with a small blast radius if you dnt get a direct hit your not doing anything with these std flaylocks....lol. you have to use adv, or proto to get any effect. the proto flaylocks cost 21,000 isk just like proto SMGs and PROTO scrambler pistols. if you take 10 SMG ounds or 4 pistol rounds and condense them in one shot that is the flay locks pistol |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:I got one sentence and addendum to all Flaylock defenders.
ITS A ****ING SIDEARM!!
WHO ***ING CARES Just because a weapon fits in the sidearm slot it doesn't mean that it has to be ineffective.
ok. so by that logic proto SMGs and proto sramble pistols and PROTO nova knives should suck too right?
the people QQ are all proto logi's with 700+ ehp and because they dnt carry side arms it does not matter to them but for people who actually in enjoy diversity in this game the flaylocks are fine. at least now im dying to things other than Assault rifles. its like a breath of fresh air.
the flaylocks are close quarters weapons like scrambler pistols, SMGs, shotguns, nova knives. i garantee you eveyone of your deaths to a flaylock were either in close quarters of you were standing still somewhere and got wasted by one. its happened to me and i dnt care because i know to treat them like a shotgun and other CQB weapons, i create some distance and shoot them from afar.
NOTE: this does not mean however that i condone people carrying 2 core flaylocks and spamming them... the reload speed needs an increase to 3.5 seconds or 4 seconds to discourage spamming. |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:Flaylock > Massdriver
This is not right. That's like if the scrambler pistol was better than the scrambler rifle, or if the SMG was a better killer than the HMG..... oh wait.
^^lolz its try the minmintar side arms are better than the minmintar primaries. but, at least the Mass drivers are usable now. |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Its a rocket, not a kittening grenade, also: All sidearms are stronger than their full set counterpart- scramblers, smg-hmg, flaylock to mass driver, but they have eztremely reduced range and ammo, scrambler has 1/8 the ammo of its rifle, smg has 1/4 the ammo of hmg, and the flaylock has not only half the ammo, also has 1/5 of the splash Quit yer bichin
Amen. sir, i give you a handshake |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
318
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 18:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
when you do the comparison of the flaylocks verses other side arms, it actually has a dps on par or slightly less than them. considering also that the blast radius is quite small there should really be no problem with it, unless in close quarters but then again all CQC weapons are supposed to be good in CQC. if i used a proto smg or pistol the results would be the same. |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
318
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 18:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:The proto flaylock pistols are killing everyone way too fast and are way too reliable because the radius of splash damage is too high and the flaylocks fire a bit too fast. The proto flaylocks are also cheaper than proto ARs and are more powerful than proto ARs up close by a large margin.
The standard flaylock is almost harmless because the splash damage radius is too small.
All flaylock pistols need to have all there splash damage the same because the standard flaylock is way too hard to use and the proto flaylock is too powerful and easy to use (damage radius is too high, people are killing other moving players from high vantage points at ranges like 40m easily and rate of fire is too high)
All flaylock pistols should have something like 1.49m radius of splash damage. The damage values themselves should not be touched.
The advanced flaylock should have its ISK cost increased by 10 000 ISK roughly.
The proto flaylock should have its ISK cost increased by 20 000 ISK roughly.
The rate of fire should be similar to the breach srambler pistol.
Edit: The Core flaylock is easier or as easy to aim as a shotgun up close because the splash damage of the Core flaylock is a bit too high.
Even at ranges like 15m or slightly higher the Core flaylock is a bit too powerful compared to other weapons. Other weapons like the scrambler pistol and SMG and scrambler rifle and AR will usually miss a few shots in the first 2 seconds of firing. While the Core flaylock has a radius large enough to make it harder to miss. That is why the Core flaylock is OP mainly. The rate of fire also needs to be reduced.
The Core flaylock is OP because the margin of error for the weapon is far too small compared to other medium range weapons like the AR and scrambler rifle (at 15m range). (Im comparing a close range weapon to a medium range weapon here).
i must contest that this is wrong.
the flaylocks are working exactly as designed. the problem isnt the flaylocks its the fact that armor is so weak right now that even with proto complex mods armor still gets take out easy.
no one anywhere is one shoting people with flaylocks. 2-3 shots can take out a non moving opponent with low shielding. but lets face it, pistols and SMGs do just as much dps and can kill 2-3 players before reload. why should the flaylock require more than one clip to finish off a single opponent? it doesnt take an SMG or a scrambler pistol that many rounds.
the flaylocks are effective in close quarters, at longer ranges its hit or miss. this helps keep ARs where they need to be, mid range.
Also, yeah the flaylocks are cheaper than ARs and kill faster in close range, but the AR is cheaper and kills faster than HMGs at close range.... so your point is mute. lol your reasoning is that anautomatic rifle should be more powerful than a pistol, well shouldnt a heavy machine gun be more powerful than an assault rifle. mostpeople say "well for balance the HMG has to suck against an AR", well this is the same case. for the sake of balance the flaylock has to rock in close range.
my simple fix, increase reload time, to 3.5 seconds, and increase blast radius for all flaylocks by .5 meters. decrease rate of fire to that of a break scrambler pistol. |
D legendary hero
Strong-Arm
318
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 19:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:The proto flaylock pistols are killing everyone way too fast and are way too reliable because the radius of splash damage is too high and the flaylocks fire a bit too fast. The proto flaylocks are also cheaper than proto ARs and are more powerful than proto ARs up close by a large margin.
The standard flaylock is almost harmless because the splash damage radius is too small.
All flaylock pistols need to have all there splash damage the same because the standard flaylock is way too hard to use and the proto flaylock is too powerful and easy to use (damage radius is too high, people are killing other moving players from high vantage points at ranges like 40m easily and rate of fire is too high)
All flaylock pistols should have something like 1.49m radius of splash damage. The damage values themselves should not be touched.
The advanced flaylock should have its ISK cost increased by 10 000 ISK roughly.
The proto flaylock should have its ISK cost increased by 20 000 ISK roughly.
The rate of fire should be similar to the breach srambler pistol.
Edit: The Core flaylock is easier or as easy to aim as a shotgun up close because the splash damage of the Core flaylock is a bit too high.
Even at ranges like 15m or slightly higher the Core flaylock is a bit too powerful compared to other weapons. Other weapons like the scrambler pistol and SMG and scrambler rifle and AR will usually miss a few shots in the first 2 seconds of firing. While the Core flaylock has a radius large enough to make it harder to miss. That is why the Core flaylock is OP mainly. The rate of fire also needs to be reduced.
The Core flaylock is OP because the margin of error for the weapon is far too small compared to other medium range weapons like the AR and scrambler rifle (at 15m range). (Im comparing a close range weapon to a medium range weapon here).
also you must remember you are comparing a weapon with 60 bullets in the clip to a weapon with only 3 max 4. if you increase the margin of error any further for the flaylocks, it becomes useless as you would have a weapo with 3 rounds thats garunteed to miss 2 shots...
|
|
|
|