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Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1827
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Anyone else thinks prototype weapons are pointless? With some exceptions, most of the times it's better to stick to advanced gear, as the price/performance is the best there. Prototype weapons skyrocket in the price department and usually only give you a slightly stronger weapon.
For example, the duvolle AR vs standard AR? 42.5 DPS difference. Price difference? Duvolle costs 30x as much.
Now, I know that the difference between proto and standard gear is big already, but shouldn't there be a good reason to go up the levels for weapons?
Anyone got ideas how to solve this problem without making prototype weapons god mode? |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
558
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
In my opinion, protgear is supposed to be ridiculously more expensive for that "tiny bit more" just in case you really, really need it, otherwise you do run the risk of everyone always using it 24/7, it becoming meaningless, and giving you god-mode. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
390
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
there is. proficiency. a gek with lvl5 pro is mean |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1827
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:In my opinion, protgear is supposed to be ridiculously more expensive for that "tiny bit more" just in case you really, really need it, otherwise you do run the risk of everyone always using it 24/7, it becoming meaningless, and giving you god-mode.
Also, really not sure how you calculated that DPS... At all. I'm just looking for ways to make it worth the price without making it uber strong. |
Mechoj Nomreps
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
26
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:there is. proficiency. a gek with lvl5 pro is mean
exactly try running a exile with prof 5 and three complex damage mods.
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Killar-12
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Anyone else thinks prototype weapons are pointless? With some exceptions, most of the times it's better to stick to advanced gear, as the price/performance is the best there. Prototype weapons skyrocket in the price department and usually only give you a slightly stronger weapon.
For example, the duvolle AR vs standard AR? 42.5 DPS difference. Price difference? Duvolle costs 30x as much.
Now, I know that the difference between proto and standard gear is big already, but shouldn't there be a good reason to go up the levels for weapons?
Anyone got ideas how to solve this problem without making prototype weapons god mode? Proto Gear should be a little more expensive compared to advanced or standard gear IMO advanced gear is fine but proto needs a 15% price increase until the Eve and Dust Economy merge |
F1RST19
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Anyone else thinks prototype weapons are pointless? With some exceptions, most of the times it's better to stick to advanced gear, as the price/performance is the best there. Prototype weapons skyrocket in the price department and usually only give you a slightly stronger weapon.
For example, the duvolle AR vs standard AR? 42.5 DPS difference. Price difference? Duvolle costs 30x as much.
Now, I know that the difference between proto and standard gear is big already, but shouldn't there be a good reason to go up the levels for weapons?
Anyone got ideas how to solve this problem without making prototype weapons god mode? I mean I just play the game, If I got a proto weapon, I use it like theres no tomorrow... |
DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
857
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Posted - 2013.07.06 06:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
i feel that the proto shotty is wayyyy better than the crg...thats just me tho.. |
Musta Tornius
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
440
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Posted - 2013.07.06 07:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
/me pats his Ishukone Assault Forge Gun
There, there precious. The silly cat is comparing you to a DAU/2A, how silly he is. |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1827
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 07:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:/me pats his Ishukone Assault Forge Gun
There, there precious. The silly cat is comparing you to a DAU/2A, how silly he is. I said SOME weapons :P |
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
390
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Posted - 2013.07.06 09:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:/me pats his Ishukone Assault Forge Gun
There, there precious. The silly cat is comparing you to a DAU/2A, how silly he is.
The Dau is bad ass. Ishukone Assault Forge Gun is better but ive slayed more tanks with the Dau. with 2 complex damage mods it does more damage than the ishakone with one. more cost efficient too |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
171
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Posted - 2013.07.06 10:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Duvolle has longer optimal range than the Standard type. The tiny extra damage adds up, every 10 bullets is like 1 free bullet if I'm not mistaken, thats a 10% damage increase. Theres a marginal increase in accuracy, cant say no to that.
Just be glad its not like modules where we're talking 3x stronger than standard and 2x stronger than adv. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD
368
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Posted - 2013.07.06 10:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scrambler rifle does 72 damage per shot?
I think the proto variant is up at 78ish only 6 damage difference there...but now let's look at some skills, say proficiency level 5 and two complex damage mods
72 + 15% + 18% damage = 72 + 24 = 96 78 + 15% + 18% damage = 78 + 26 = 104
This shows that prototype weapons really aren't that much better, and that damage mods and skills give a lot more extra damage than the upgraded guns themselves.
That said, an extra 8 damage per shot, with 10 shots on a person means an extra 80 damage, or a free shot practically.
So the real question is how accurate a player is. If you can keep the shots hitting their target, you can do rather well with just a basic weapon, but if you miss a lot, the proto weapons will help with not having to hit the player as many times.
Me personally, I get charged headshots constantly and score instant kills all the time because of it. with 100 damage per shot, a bonus to shields, a bonus to headshots, and a bonus for the charged shot, it's like a miniature sniper. With all of those bonuses in play, the proto variant could make the difference of me killing them, or them getting away. |
Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
433
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Posted - 2013.07.06 10:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
What makes proto AR's worthwhile is the range, not the damage. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
399
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Posted - 2013.07.06 12:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't know about the other guns , but with AR I prefer the GEK over duvolle. with the 15% bonus and 2 dmg mods I get a pretty good gun for way less cost, slightly less range accuracy but i'm not trying to snipe with them. However I do see a big leap when I bust out my officer varients |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think what Cat is trying to say is, it's not the weapons performance that is in question, it's the price versus the performance, and he has a good point, the price ain't right, the amount of Isk we make from a match isn't a lot, I can get more from using an advance over a proto, unless I'm doing a PC there really is no valid point in using proto. |
Severance Pay
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
540
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Are proto weapons pointless?m Noway! Every las one of them can give any player that winning edge. Are the worth the price variance? That depends on YOU. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
944
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Absoliav wrote:I think what Cat is trying to say is, it's not the weapons performance that is in question, it's the price versus the performance, and he has a good point, the price ain't right, the amount of Isk we make from a match isn't a lot, I can get more from using an advance over a proto, unless I'm doing a PC there really is no valid point in using proto.
I think you are describing the game working "as designed" in this respect? |
Severance Pay
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
540
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 13:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Absoliav wrote:I think what Cat is trying to say is, it's not the weapons performance that is in question, it's the price versus the performance, and he has a good point, the price ain't right, the amount of Isk we make from a match isn't a lot, I can get more from using an advance over a proto, unless I'm doing a PC there really is no valid point in using proto. Well proto was meant to be endgame gear. The stuff you whipout for important game altering matches, but here we are roling proto in pubs. It might not be expensive enough. |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Severance Pay wrote:Are proto weapons pointless?m Noway! Every las one of them can give any player that winning edge. Are the worth the price variance? That depends on YOU.
No one is saying they are worthless, but the thing is that extra edge is only really needed in PC where it would really matter, and even then the price is still questionable. |
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The Attorney General
ZionTCD
210
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:What makes proto AR's worthwhile is the range, not the damage.
This is the truth.
Proto FG, MD, FP and PC also get bigger splash radius by going proto. This is also a big consideration. |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.07.06 13:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Severance Pay wrote:Absoliav wrote:I think what Cat is trying to say is, it's not the weapons performance that is in question, it's the price versus the performance, and he has a good point, the price ain't right, the amount of Isk we make from a match isn't a lot, I can get more from using an advance over a proto, unless I'm doing a PC there really is no valid point in using proto. Well proto was meant to be endgame gear. The stuff you whipout for important game altering matches, but here we are roling proto in pubs. It might not be expensive enough.
I agree, but I don't know if rasing the price is the best answer. |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1832
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Posted - 2013.07.06 15:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think Prototype gear is priced right. (Not talking about price/performance, just the end game idea) The problem is that after the respec so many vets had ludicrous amounts of money that they could run proto gear for months and still be space rich |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
950
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Posted - 2013.07.06 15:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yeah, I got loads of cash from all the dropship drops I'd accumulated (presumably they were trying to get us to use them and test them during the beta). |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2013.07.06 15:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
proto weapons on adv suit for me |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1832
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Posted - 2013.07.06 15:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:proto weapons on adv suit for me adv weapon on proto suit for me. |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.07.06 16:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I think Prototype gear is priced right. (Not talking about price/performance, just the end game idea) The problem is that after the respec so many vets had ludicrous amounts of money that they could run proto gear for months and still be space rich
That is part of the issue with doing pubs, too many Vets are running throwing proto gear away like it's water, but that is a different problem, I do believe the price for proto gear is right, but the performance output is too low for the asking price. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4447
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Posted - 2013.07.06 16:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
If this game doesn't die then prototype gear will just be another step along the way to better gear. Basically, proto will become middle of the road as time goes on.
I primarily rock my advanced stuff, but the prototype stuff gives you more wiggle room. That tiny boost to DPS can mean the difference between 50WP and respawning in 10. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
528
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Posted - 2013.07.06 16:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:If this game doesn't die then prototype gear will just be another step along the way to better gear. Basically, proto will become middle of the road as time goes on.[...] I really hope that exactly this does not happen. We really don't need the "AR of statistical superiority" an the likes that do nothing but devaluate existing content.
CCP did a decent job avoiding power creep in eve and i hope they translate this into dust.
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Musta Tornius
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
445
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Posted - 2013.07.06 17:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Personally I wish it would be harder to use proto gear, a lot harder in fact. I've got close to 200 mill and I don't die that much. If I wanted I could just run proto gear most of the time. Maybe having tier separation in pub games would be a step in the right direction for balancing it. |
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