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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
121
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
So today I went and compared the stats on the commando and the sentinel.
Commando suit has two light weapons, and a marginally faster movement and sprint speed 1 equipment 0 high and low fitting slots Costs 8000+ ISK
Sentinel has a heavy weapon and a sidearm No equipment Almost twice the health and shielding Better shield recharge 1 high and 2 low fitting slots Costs me 0 ISK as I have a BPO, but I know the normal version isn't any 8000
So you have the choice between 2 moderately good weapons, a bit of runspeed, and the lack of ability to modify or beef up your suit in any way vs. one incredibly good weapon and 1 kind of crappy one, insane amounts of health, enough slots to make some decent modifications. Oh and the crappy suit can drop a nanohive or repair people.
What gives? Is there anyone out there who plays a commando and is satisfied with the power level?
Personally I couldn't imagine playing a fatsuit without massive amounts of HP. Seems like they pre-nerfed it in a similar fashion to the plasma cannon, but I'm prepared to hear some contrary opinions. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
147
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're comparing it against the sentinel when you should be comparing it against the assault suits. It may be a heavy frame but it is not a heavy.
That said, I have been using the Commando a lot but I am far from satisified with where it is at. I'm speccing into it with hopes that CCP will fix it, though I know others have done that with the Scouts and Sentinels and are still waiting. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
637
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
For the hp nerf, they may as well have made it a medium frame with similar stats. At least that would appeal more to light weapon users.
With the announcement of this suit, I figured they were giving a really cool niche for those L-heavies to excel in. In this state, those players are better off with the vanilla setup they had before. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
147
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:For the hp nerf, they may as well have made it a medium frame with similar stats. At least that would appeal more to light weapon users.
With the announcement of this suit, I figured they were giving a really cool niche for those L-heavies to excel in. In this state, those players are better off with the vanilla setup they had before. That would of been better considering for all practical purposes it is a medium suit, but it gets the large hitbox of a heavy.
Armor and shields should be at 300 a piece or maybe more. I do not understand what CCP was thinking docking 310 eHP from the suit (Basic heavy is 405/405 for 810 eHP. Commando is 250/250 for 500 eHP). It is sort of ridiculous they took the heavy frame and made a medium specialization out of it. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
121
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:You're comparing it against the sentinel when you should be comparing it against the assault suits. It may be a heavy frame but it is not a heavy.
That said, I have been using the Commando a lot but I am far from satisified with where it is at. I'm speccing into it with hopes that CCP will fix it, though I know others have done that with the Scouts and Sentinels and are still waiting.
Same hitbox, closest suit in movement speed other than mabye an amarr logi, same SP investment, higher price.
Oh I know it's closest to assault in stats, but that's my issue with it. If it's big like a heavy, and it moves like a heavy, with the same SP and higher ISK costs than a heavy it should have similar HP to a heavy. Either that, or more fitting slots.
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Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
246
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
I look at it as a medium suit (has about the same eHP range) that moves slow but can carry two light weapons. I'm not going to spec into it, but if I did I'd probably use it as a hybrid assault/AV build. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4432
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
The only use I can see for Commando is for Medium frames, not Heavies. Roll around in your taxi and double up on AV.
Other than that, or redline sniping, I don't particularly see the point of the fail that is the Commandon't |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
122
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Posted - 2013.07.05 20:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The only use I can see for Commando is for Medium frames, not Heavies. Roll around in your taxi and double up on AV.
Other than that, or redline sniping, I don't particularly see the point of the fail that is the Commandon't
I could see taking a dropship full of commandos with SL/Sniper fits up on top of a tower to snipe people / take out vehicles from a good vantage point. You could even use their SL's to ward of enemy dropships that tried to stop you.
Only good use.
Of course they have the lowest EHP in the game other than possibly scouts when you figure in modifications. As far as regular firefights. I don't care how versatile they are. Slow movement +low EHP = non-useful.
Commandos are only useful if nobody is shooting at them. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
388
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Posted - 2013.07.05 20:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its groovy rockin two geks. gimme a grenade tho. Who ever heaRD OF A COMMANDO WITH NO GRENADES |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
122
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
I guess the question I don't understand is this. If you took the sentinel, and swapped its heavy weapon and sidearm for two light weapons, how would that be overpowered?
You don't see people running around in heavy suits with assault rifles for the simple reason that the HMG and Forge Guns are the two best handheld weapons in the game. As they should be.
A heavy that sacrifices the advantage of those weapons for a choice in two standard weapons seems very balanced to me. So a tiny speed boost and 1 equipment slot just don't justify all the other things they got slapped with. Seriously ZERO fitting slots. There is just no excuse for that. |
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Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
132
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Posted - 2013.07.05 20:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Its groovy rockin two geks. gimme a grenade tho. Who ever heaRD OF A COMMANDO WITH NO GRENADES
Not me. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
122
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Its groovy rockin two geks. gimme a grenade tho. Who ever heaRD OF A COMMANDO WITH NO GRENADES
Wait... I didn't even notice that... Tack up on more thing the sentinel has over the commando.
So lack of heavy balances 2 lights IMO.
Equipment is also balanced by no grenades IMO.
So basically you're trading about half your HP and all your fitting slots for a light speed boost. Great sounding suit! |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens League of Infamy
133
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
No one is seeing that you don't need to spec into many things for a commando suit. Since they have limited module slots, you spec into two module skills, everything else should be passive bonuses, like run speed, base armor, base shields, etc. The more slots you have, the more you have to spec into. The commando can make the most use out of few actual skills. It all comes down to player skill. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
147
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:No one is seeing that you don't need to spec into many things for a commando suit. Since they have limited module slots, you spec into two module skills, everything else should be passive bonuses, like run speed, base armor, base shields, etc. The more slots you have, the more you have to spec into. The commando can make the most use out of few actual skills. It all comes down to player skill. That's not a bonus.Especially considering that most people who skill into a module stack that module. Rather you are left with skilling into a module only to use one of them. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
122
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:No one is seeing that you don't need to spec into many things for a commando suit. Since they have limited module slots, you spec into two module skills, everything else should be passive bonuses, like run speed, base armor, base shields, etc. The more slots you have, the more you have to spec into. The commando can make the most use out of few actual skills. It all comes down to player skill.
Thats like if you tore all the slots off an assault suit and said "But it makes for a really low SP build!"
It doesn't matter that it's low SP, because it sucks in almost EVERYaspect. For 8k ISK per standard suit. Also, in order to make proper use of it's very limited abilities, you would have to spec into two different kinds of light weapons. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
142
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Commando should have been a medium suit - accessible at Lv5
- Similar HP to Logi but higher movement speed than assault (same sprint speed) - Same two light weapons with grenade and two equipment slots - Lower high and low slot configuration than Assault variant
Probably high enough CPU/PG to fit mostly proto gear. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4435
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Commando should have been a medium suit - accessible at Lv5
- Similar HP to Logi but higher movement speed than assault (same sprint speed) - Same two light weapons with grenade and two equipment slots - Lower high and low slot configuration than Assault variant
Probably high enough CPU/PG to fit mostly proto gear. CCP took the lead out of Heavies and replaced it with helium :/ |
calvin b
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
2
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Posted - 2013.07.05 21:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
The new suit is a joke and as a true heavy I think it is a slap in the face to us heavies. Instead of this monstrosity being released another race suit should have been. A shield heavy would have been perfect with the other mods being released at the same time. The colors look awful, but i understand why red for it is the blood they will spill when they come across a true heavy. I killed three of these mistakes in a row with my HMG and never looked back. It was easy for I knew they carried no armor or weapon mods to stop my 1200+ HP killing machine. Also a AR shotgun mix does not make up for this poor build or any other combo. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
142
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote: CCP took the lead out of Heavies and replaced it with helium :/
Trying to think of another role for heavies but cant off the top of my head. Maybe the MTAC's or whatever should be classed under heavies and accessible at Lv5
Maybe a heavy siege suit with faster sprint speed but less movement speed and enough high slots so you can choose whether to dual tank or up your damage. You could "deploy" faster in an inside environment to provide sustained heavy fire.
Dunno - just spitballing. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens League of Infamy
133
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
How about this. Get the word "Heavy" out of your mind as being a "Tank" from other MMOs. Heavy doesn't mean that it is built for taking big hits. It just means the frame is heavy to support the use of heavy equipment. If you start thinking about it in this way, it becomes less of a problem.
How many that are complaining about the suit have actually used the suit? I mean really used it and picked two complementary weapons. Having two light weapons means you can pack a stronger punch to a more varied battlefield. If you just pick one light or one heavy weapon, you know that if X weapon comes up against you, you need to run or die. Like a forge gun vs an assault rifle, if you miss that first shot, you are dead to the AR. And you are only effective against a tank.
Take the commando though, they can use a swarm/ar and can kill both man and machine equally well. Yes, a SMG is very good as a sidearm verse infantry (I know I use it a a lot on my Amarr Logisuit)... but an AR is better outside of CQC, which if you are smart, you will switch from your swarm to your AR well before they get close to you. That versatility alone would be enough for me to use the suit. I could have nothing but two light weapons and no slots at all, no equipment either, and I would be happy.
But alas... I can't give up my 3 equipment slots, I like RE, Prox, Uplinks, Hive too much to switch right now. I will for sure skill up commando after I am all set on my current goal. And since I trained up all my passive global suit bonuses, I am going to be a scary commando. |
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Mobias Wyvern
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.07.06 00:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this.........
Planetside 2
Coming to PS4 this year
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2166
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 01:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mobias Wyvern wrote:Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2
Coming to PS4 this year In the interest of presenting the full picture: The Enclave Leaves Planetside 2 After Months of No Fights and Broken Patches and Updates CEOPyrex on Supporting Dust 514 |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
124
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:How about this. Get the word "Heavy" out of your mind as being a "Tank" from other MMOs. Heavy doesn't mean that it is built for taking big hits. It just means the frame is heavy to support the use of heavy equipment. If you start thinking about it in this way, it becomes less of a problem.
How many that are complaining about the suit have actually used the suit? I mean really used it and picked two complementary weapons. Having two light weapons means you can pack a stronger punch to a more varied battlefield. If you just pick one light or one heavy weapon, you know that if X weapon comes up against you, you need to run or die. Like a forge gun vs an assault rifle, if you miss that first shot, you are dead to the AR. And you are only effective against a tank.
Take the commando though, they can use a swarm/ar and can kill both man and machine equally well. Yes, a SMG is very good as a sidearm verse infantry (I know I use it a a lot on my Amarr Logisuit)... but an AR is better outside of CQC, which if you are smart, you will switch from your swarm to your AR well before they get close to you. That versatility alone would be enough for me to use the suit. I could have nothing but two light weapons and no slots at all, no equipment either, and I would be happy.
But alas... I can't give up my 3 equipment slots, I like RE, Prox, Uplinks, Hive too much to switch right now. I will for sure skill up commando after I am all set on my current goal. And since I trained up all my passive global suit bonuses, I am going to be a scary commando.
This isn't a "heavy" means high health thing. This is a slow means high health thing. This suit is only 5 km/hr faster than a sentinel, and .65 km/hr slower than the slowest medium frame (Amarr logistics).
Notice, I just named two of the most durable suits in the game.
If they want this to play like an assault, then speed it up. If they want it to play like a heavy, tank it up. But a slow moving low health frame is just a dead man walking. The versatility is nice but it has no damage boosts and no ability to mount them on the standard version.
You're right, I haven't used it. Because it looks weak, and the reviews on it are terrible. I'm not going to waste my SP. My rule of thumb is that if you can't find a few "______ is OP plz nerf it!" threads on the forum, then it's underpowered, and not worth my time. |
Acezero 44
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2013.07.07 05:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
I see the magic in the standard 8k isk suit..
600 ehp, no gear, = cheap
but, the commando % bonus cant be used by the standard suit, = stupid
I think the speed should be 5.0 but sprint slower then med frames.
the proto price is to high. |
Bullets2yaface
Red Star. EoN.
21
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Posted - 2013.07.07 11:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
People quit comparing it to a heavy or an assault it is neither consider it a tactical heavy if u must. I am not defending the suit tho they blow if they were gona take so much armor off maybe they should've raised movement speed more the whole suit is a gimmick made to add something new to the game.... Still waiting on racial heavies maybe u could've done that instead ccp i guarantee more people would've appreciated that over commando get ur **** straight guys
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
57
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Posted - 2013.07.07 11:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tharak Meuridiar wrote:So today I went and compared the stats on the commando and the sentinel.
Commando suit has two light weapons, and a marginally faster movement and sprint speed 1 equipment 0 high and low fitting slots Costs 8000+ ISK
Sentinel has a heavy weapon and a sidearm No equipment Almost twice the health and shielding Better shield recharge 1 high and 2 low fitting slots Costs me 0 ISK as I have a BPO, but I know the normal version isn't any 8000
So you have the choice between 2 moderately good weapons, a bit of runspeed, and the lack of ability to modify or beef up your suit in any way vs. one incredibly good weapon and 1 kind of crappy one, insane amounts of health, enough slots to make some decent modifications. Oh and the crappy suit can drop a nanohive or repair people.
What gives? Is there anyone out there who plays a commando and is satisfied with the power level?
Personally I couldn't imagine playing a fatsuit without massive amounts of HP. Seems like they pre-nerfed it in a similar fashion to the plasma cannon, but I'm prepared to hear some contrary opinions.
I quite like the commando suit. I only use the advanced level suit so far and I really quite like having the option to fit 2 main weapons.
I do think the suit could use an extra slot or too, especially at the adv. and proto level suits however. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
802
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 11:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Whats to get? Excellent weapon versatility at the expense of overall health, modules, gear, and speed I know to some it sounds terrible and at a basic level it is, to really make it shine youll need to spend a ton of SP I mean theres maxing your core skills, the commando skill itself, and then at least two light weapon skills to a considerable degree to take full advantage of the weapon versatility |
zzZaXxx
The Exemplars Top Men.
55
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 11:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Someone please try this Commando fit!
1 complex myofibral stimulant 2 complex kinetic catalyzers
438 dmg per melee hit!!! |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
404
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 12:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tharak Meuridiar wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:Its groovy rockin two geks. gimme a grenade tho. Who ever heaRD OF A COMMANDO WITH NO GRENADES Wait... I didn't even notice that... Tack up on more thing the sentinel has over the commando. So lack of heavy balances 2 lights IMO. Equipment is also balanced by no grenades IMO. So basically you're trading about half your HP and shield regen plus all your fitting slots for a light speed boost. Great sounding suit! Edit: Also, why the heck are people rocking two of any kind of weapon on that suit? It can use nanohives. A commando with 2 of the same weapons sounds like a hopelessly underpowered logi.
in a fire fight against a few guys it is nice to have the extra firepower. swaping weapons is faster than reloading. |
Hunter Fencen
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
11
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Posted - 2013.07.07 12:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
People treat the commando as a heavy which it isn't. Its a slow assault. People are always saying use a AR and swarms. Worst idea ever. Use an AR and MD, SR, or shotty. Most effective suit i've seen in CQC or mid range. Pack up and it becomes in a league of its own. Personally I use it to shock squad. 3-4 commandos each with his or her own unique equiptment. All have AR's one got the swarms for AV. One the MD for area clearing, SR for shield tankers and the shotty takes point. As long as you have vehicles you can quite easily decimate. We have 6 in our corp and when we squad up its amazing. Its a pack suit, pointless alone but dangerous in groups |
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