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Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
0
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Posted - 2013.07.05 17:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings, honored colleagues. If you will spare a little of your time, I wish to ask your thoughts on a topic that has become central to our existences, but about which we know little: the clone soldier implant.
We all possess one of these. They nestle in our skulls, tucked away in our brains. They are included in our every clone.
Superficially, they serve a similar purpose to a capsuleer's cloning mesh, the wire cap worn in the pod to allow emergency transfer if the pod is breached (an event that results in death as reliably as a forge gun charge through the visor). The basic technologies at play there, however, are decades old. Examined more closely, the implant is a much more peculiar and mysterious sort of device.
Data points so far:
* there is apparently some evidence that the implants appeared first among the Amarr, who mastered the use of implant technology many centuries ago. However, it spread to the other major empires almost at once.
* the first generation of the technology, which very few of us still use and may now be actually extinct, is contaminated in some manner, apparently causing mental and emotional instability. This pattern was apparently not confined to any single nation; it spread with the technology.
* the speed with which the implant responds is astonishing, or else its copying mechanism works in an unconventional manner. It's not that it can flip us from our quarters to a battlefield multiple light years away in a moment; capsuleer transfer through the fluid router network can do similarly. It's that the implant can safely transfer the consciousness contained in a brain that is in the process of being ventilated by a charged sniper railgun flechette that traverses atmosphere, shield, helmet, skull, brain, and implant, at near-C. The implication is that the implant is either somehow detecting the threat and transferring the mind faster than the flechette can disrupt it or that the disruption is, for some reason, unimportant.
* download is apparently likewise non-disruptable. Destruction or hacking of a CRU in the process of activating a new clone either prevents clone activation outright or permits last-instant deployment if download is already finalized; it does not appear to corrupt the partially-downloaded consciousness.
* irretrievably damaged clone soldiers, including those who have been "headshotted," retain awareness and can continue to relay intel through darkening eyes for up to several seconds after death. This suggests either the presence of hardened monitoring devices that remain active and continue to transmit data once the clone is downed, or that the consciousness is not truly present in the clone to begin with.
* even a very thoroughly dead clone soldier remains mentally alert and has access to battlefield intel for the purpose of selecting a clone to inhabit. What's more, verbal communication at this time is not only possible but often very useful: frequently, the only squad member who is looking at the whole battlefield map is the one who is dead.
* short observation suggests that clone soldier transfer is not subject to the same entropy as capsuleer transfer. Even at the highest quality, using an extremely expensive clone constructed from AA-certified human cadavers, a capsuleer clone transfer is still only 99.99% precise. Because capsuleers emergency clone relatively rarely (two in one week would typically be considered a very rough week), this apparently causes little trouble. Clone soldiers can clone thousands of times in a matter of weeks, and use much more rudimentary clones optimized for combat performance, yet there is little indication of widespread entropy in our personalities or memories. Further observation will probably be necessary to verify this.
* as to the technology's origins: many of New Eden's greatest technological advances come from precursor civilizations, the Takhmal, Yan Jung, Sleepers, and Talocan, known collectively as the Ancients. Ancient technology can sometimes be replicated and can often be practically applied, but many pieces are poorly understood. When a previously-unknown technology appears, the Ancients are frequently the source. Of these, the Sleepers, known for the quality of their neural interfacing technology, seem the most likely candidates-- though lately the cluster has seen more of Sleeper drone technology, as regularly experienced (and battled) by the residents of Anoikis, than of neural wizardry.
* to the above, we might add the Jove as a possibility. The Jove are functionally Ancients, themselves, having apparently suffered at most a minimal "dark age," while other Ancient civilizations fell. The Jove provided the Caldari with the first hydrostatic capsules used by modern capsuleers. It is possible that they similarly provided our implants, but they are generally on bad terms with the Amarr and seem unlikely to be providing gifts to the Empress. Then again, this appears to have initially been a poisoned gift.
* "uploading" technology, which transfers a human consciousness onto a machine, is not exactly unknown; Zainou Biotech is known, in part, for its former CEO having uploaded himself. One major possibility from this is that clone soldiers "in transit" are converted into the form of code comprehensible to a computer, which would explain why we can communicate and consider options for tactical deployment between clones. It is also possible that this is factually our permanent state-- that our implants do not connect us "up" to a temporary housing between clones, but that we are connected "down" to our clones, using portions of their brains to process sensory data and the like while our consciousness stays safe and sound in an uploaded state, jerking the strings of combat-optimized puppet bodies.
Of course, until we learn more, any conclusions we might draw will remain purest speculation. If you have thoughts, please share them with us. |
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2013.07.05 18:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Useful to us mercenaries to farm contracts. Useful for those in power to conquer surface structures. I'd say it's just another one of those "once you have it you can't go back" inventions. I wonder how the ancients get killed in the end though, perhaps they touched themselves too much, like the Jovians, hahaha! |
Rinas Rylos
Rinas' Raiders
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 18:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hey, whatever lets us do our jobs, y'know? It's better both for my wallet and my conscience if I'm shooting people that I know are gonna get right back up, since it gives me an unending supply of people waste for cash and a continuing source of contracts to take up. The whole bit about continually reviving myself isn't too shabby either. As long as we aren't ending up like those whacked out Templars than I don't give too much thought to the actual tech itself; It's something I'll let the scientists and researchers worry about. |
Hostilian Prime
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.07.05 19:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote: the speed with which the implant responds is astonishing, or else its copying mechanism works in an unconventional manner. [...] It's that the implant can safely transfer the consciousness contained in a brain that is in the process of being ventilated by a charged sniper railgun flechette that traverses atmosphere, shield, helmet, skull, brain, and implant, at near-C. The implication is that the implant is either somehow detecting the threat and transferring the mind faster than the flechette can disrupt it or that the disruption is, for some reason, unimportant.
I'm not an engineer, but is it possible the implant uses a fundamentally different approach to the capsule design?
Capsuleers have two methods of transferring consciousness: First, there is the destructive process that happens the moment the pod is breached; the "snapshot" taken by the pod's internals destroys the brain in the process. But the other method, the so-called "Jump Clone" is a non-destructive consciousness transfer. For empyreans, this must happen in a medical facility. Perhaps the Amarr perfected and miniaturized this non-destructive process.
To what end? Perhaps our implants are keeping a running journal as we go about our day-to-day. I eat a sandwich, it gets journaled. I take a trip to Rens -- it's beautiful this time of year -- that goes in the journal. I shoot a guy in the face, also in the journal. When my implant stops sending data, it's safe to assume the clone it's plugged into is ventilated, crushed, incinerated, or otherwise met an ill end. At that point, whatever infrastructure my contractor is using waits a few seconds (for propriety's sake) and reads out the journal and pours it into a new body.
Like I said, I'm not a scientist or an engineer. It's just about magic to me.
I've never had the occasion to look -- too busy doing my job -- but I've always wondered if the clones I get pushed into on the battlefield have the tattoos I paid for station-side. I know it's peanuts out of my income, but it seems weird that I have to "subscribe" to tattoos, or they stop appearing when I station-hop. Then again, just about everything is weird these days. |
Denak Kalamari
BurgezzE.T.F
195
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, the Sleeper implant* is a very peculiar thing compared to the capsuleer implant, for the facts Ms. Ryeon has stated, the most astonishing one being the fact that a clone soldier's transfer of consiousness is flawless even when the data(read, conciousness) would become damage or otherwise unusable due to brain damage or errors in reanimating in a CRU.
I have my own hypothesis as to how the sleeper implant works. What I think is that unlike a regular capsuleer implant which takes a snapshot of the mind at the moment of death, a sleeper implant is continously streaming data to a memory bank. Similar to Hostilian's hypothesis, I believe that the sleeper implant keeps streaming data to some memory bank, and when that data is broken(ie. Death or transferring to a new clone), the data collected right up to that point is sent to the next chosen clone, thus making a full conciousness teansfer.
This is just a hypothesis though, as I am not trained into the arts of science or engineering, that is what I believe though.
*While the origins of the implant are still debated, I use the most generally used term for the implant to avoid confusion |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 00:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Yes, the Sleeper implant* is a very peculiar thing compared to the capsuleer implant, for the facts Ms. Ryeon has stated, the most astonishing one being the fact that a clone soldier's transfer of consiousness is flawless even when the data(read, conciousness) would become damage or otherwise unusable due to brain damage or errors in reanimating in a CRU.
I have my own hypothesis as to how the sleeper implant works. What I think is that unlike a regular capsuleer implant which takes a snapshot of the mind at the moment of death, a sleeper implant is continously streaming data to a memory bank. Similar to Hostilian's hypothesis, I believe that the sleeper implant keeps streaming data to some memory bank, and when that data is broken(ie. Death or transferring to a new clone), the data collected right up to that point is sent to the next chosen clone, thus making a full conciousness teansfer.
This is just a hypothesis though, as I am not trained into the arts of science or engineering, that is what I believe though.
*While the origins of the implant are still debated, I use the most generally used term for the implant to avoid confusion
That sort of "streaming," like to Hostilian Prime's "journal" idea (if there's even really a difference), does seem like a possibility, Mr. Kalamari, and it seems as though it might evade some of the possible legal issues of a fully uploaded infomorph. The result would be a continually-updated backup. This, however, would also require that our perceptions after being struck down come from our equipment, not our eyes, and that the suit have independent means of communicating these perceptions to us.
This seems possible, but maybe a bit complicated for the limited result: why not just install a rotation-capable camera and let the fallen capsuleer monitor and report hostile activity for more than just a few seconds? Perhaps the engineers behind our equipment design thought that using our own corpses as camera emplacements would be too disturbing? |
IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University
Ivy League
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 05:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Likely it was not cost effective to install a camera drone interface into such a lightweight (and frankly disposable) suit.
I would like to believe that the engineers out there would like us to have the latest and greatest, but isk does not grow on veldspar.
No. Likely the dropsuit manufacturers are taking a lesson from the Caldari. They are only looking at the bottom line of mass manufacturing, mass appeal and low production cost. |
Innus threen
The Exemplars
Top Men.
24
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Posted - 2013.07.07 08:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dust implant explanation:
GÇóStarted in Amarr, but spread fast:
The Amarrian scientists actually found the technology in a Sleeper ruin of a station out in newly found space and started working on a way to utilize the implants found in the clones. Meanwhile, the Galente heard that the Amarr had something up their sleeves that they were researching and intercepted some Amarr transmissions between their various science facilities. The implications that the Amarr could be immortal caused great stress amongst the covert Galenteans and they made sure to get all the information they could. Once they had the designs for the implants one of the lead Galente scientists decided that no one nation could hold the power to be immortal and so spread it to the leaders of both the Minmatar and Caldari in hopes that the four nations would remain in balance and not enslave the entire galaxy of New Eden.
GÇóFirst gen contaminated causing mental and emotional instability:
The first generation of implants had a slight tendency to have a slight delay before it cut off the sensation of death as it happened, this made death a very traumatic experience on the mental state of the clones.
GÇóFast brain transfer speeds:
This is possible because every experience is being streamed and stored in a master clone. This is the civilian clone that all our soldiers go home in and retain every experience that occurs to them and their clone. This clone is kept safe in the war barge during battle and is the clone that regains consciousness briefly after death to select which clone to be inserted into next.
GÇóNon interruptible download of consciousness:
This is because the time it takes between selecting the new clone and waking up in this new clone is spent downloading the consciousness into the new clone, so when you get in just in time it's because the consciousness is already there, but of the download fails you still have the consciousness of the master clone to rely on since the master clone is not sedated until streaming of a new clone experience starts.
GÇóAwareness after death:
This is because you have the option of when to give up on your current clone. Your consciousness is still being supported by your clone and senses numbed by the implant while you are lying on the ground. It takes a conscious decision to be taken out of your clone even after your clone has been trashed an will not support you running around anymore. In addition, there is a small amount of nanites in the implant to make sure the brain is never permanently damaged until vacated.
GÇóVerbal communication while dead and selecting new clone:
This is possible because you are in your master clone while dead and can communicate through the long range signals that the Neocom uses for squad and even team communication.
GÇóNo mental entropy even though consciousness is transferred thousands of times fast:
This is because there is always a master copy of the consciousness. Your consciousness is never technically moved, just copied and updated.
This is my account of the history of the mercenary implants.
If you would like more info or would like me to turn this into a formal writing instead of a bulleted work please let me know through the dust mail system. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 16:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mr. Threen:
Your explanations are plausible in places, but there are problems.
* Your story of the implant's origins is perhaps plausible. I'm curious about your sources, however-- you speak with a lot of certainty.
* We do not have the sensations of death cut off even now. Some injuries barely hurt; there's a sense of shock, but little more. Others ... well, I try to avoid engaging sub-machine gun users at close range, just in case I'm facing a horrid wretch using a Toxin variant. Gods and spirits, why does that atrocious device even exist...? Also, this explanation does not cover the "514" first-gen signature issue.
* Your idea of a "master clone" is certainly a possibility-- that we are just bouncing up to the war barge temporarily, where our suited bodies are sort of lying around in a pile on the war room floor. However (1) there can be no single such clone for each of us-- we transfer a distance of light years in a few moments to reach those war barges in the first place, and while the InterBus is good, it's not quite that good; (2) the existence of such a clone would create a systemic vulnerability whereby we could be permanently destroyed with a well-timed strike on the warbarge or in our quarters while we are "away"-- a critical and all-too-easily exploited gap that doesn't seem necessary for our function and would probably haave made the pogrom against the first generation substantially easier (since those hunting them were presumably aware of any such vulnerabilities).
I'd put it under "plausible, but far-fetched."
* I'd be a little surprised if my clone was still capable of supporting my consciousness after taking a rail flechette through her noggin. I get to decide whether to abandon a clone that can still be revived, but one that gets pulped with an explosive charge or has her gray matter ventilated? Not so much.
Yet I still receive at least those few seconds of continued vision. On which note....
Mr. Childhaspawn:
You may be correct. Capsuleer camera drones are cheap, but they're probably not small enough for battlefield use. Still, you might expect some of the prototype gear to start incorporating a more sophisticated sensor package to gather better intel before the eraser vaporizes the clone, sensors and all. |
IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University
Ivy League
109
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 19:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
I suppose if it ever got to the point where suits were customizable, it would be possible to remove some of the less vital organs from the combat clones in order to fit bigger sensor packages. The life expectancy of the combat clone ,in practice, is never more than 15 minutes, and averages from .5 to 1. Planet dwellers can live without their gastrointestinal tract for cycles, Dont see why a combat clone needs it at all. Thats almost .25 cm^3 of space right there.
Back to the implant.
Amarrians are the greatest religious zealots known, all for the god-queen and such. It makes sense that they use the implant for the immortality effect. The only reason the Amarrians ever change at all is because every 5 centuries or so their ruler goes insane from the sense of invulnerability that all of the cybernetic replacement parts grant. Using the implant instead of replacing parts, could potentially allow the Empress to rule without the ugliness of insanity -for all time.
Now maybe this is just a Minmatar trait, but we think outside the box. We see something discarded and wonder what else it can be used for. I am wondering what the implant was intended for. Apparently, the original purpose didn't work out so well for The Sleepers as they no longer exist... or....
We know:
- We can use it for near instant transfer of consciousness.
- We can replicate it from common and inexpensive materials.
- We can take it apart and put it back together, and it works the same way
- While we are not inside a meat sack, we can experience the digital world.
I think that last part is the most important. We know for sure two things about Sleepers.
They built enormous structures in the middle of W- space and all of these structures are protected by some of the toughest drones ever encountered.
What I'm getting at is- Maybe immortality was not the intent of the implant, at least not as we use the term.
Maybe the point of the implant was to become a drone. What if the Sleepers designed the implant to achieve the first phase of a conscious drone by placing themselves into it. |
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Galm Fae
BetaMax Beta
CRONOS.
4
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Posted - 2013.07.08 19:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
When I signed up for this job I didn't really care about the science behind it, a paycheck was a paycheck.
Now however, I have my doubts. This Sleeper tech as been... troublesome at times to wrap my head around. I have limited experience with working with Ancient technology (I have been experimenting with incorperating Jovian fusion cores into aircraft. I have gotten back mixed results at best. Sometimes torque output increases ten fold, sometimes I blow myself up.) but every time I try to observe these implants that keep me alive some new development occures that completly alters my understanding of the workings of the device. It is like it doesn't want to be figured out.
From what I can gather though... And this is all based off limited knowledge of AI technologies that are cranked out of Federation Space... The nature of the transfer of consciousness seems to hint towards there being some type of data transfer into and out of cloned bodies as is suspected, but with an added aspect of being able to retain awareness in the implant itself. This would suggest alternating between existing as a smart AI and a biological clone. Doesn't that break a few rules though? I thought unpacking yourself into an AI was a one-way trip. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 20:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote:I suppose if it ever got to the point where suits were customizable, it would be possible to remove some of the less vital organs from the combat clones in order to fit bigger sensor packages. The life expectancy of the combat clone ,in practice, is never more than 15 minutes, and averages from .5 to 1. Planet dwellers can live without their gastrointestinal tract for cycles, Dont see why a combat clone needs it at all. Thats almost .25 cm^3 of space right there.
Um ... do you possibly mean "meters?" .25 cm^3 seems small.
Also, it seems like missing the gastrointestinal tract would have all sorts of potentially troublesome complications. Our clones have to be grown before we move in, remember, and there's a good deal of modification in play already.
Finally, the queasy squirming I'm presently feeling in my gut at the idea seems to suggest that the modification would take some getting used to, psychologically. They have gone to some trouble to try and keep us human-ish, you know, which seems to be partly for the sake of our mental well-being.
Quote:Back to the implant.
Amarrians are the greatest religious zealots known, all for the god-queen and such. It makes sense that they use the implant for the immortality effect. The only reason the Amarrians ever change at all is because every 5 centuries or so their ruler goes insane from the sense of invulnerability that all of the cybernetic replacement parts grant. Using the implant instead of replacing parts, could potentially allow the Empress to rule without the ugliness of insanity -for all time.
Just so it's out there, the Amarr don't let their emperors rule in perpetuity; there's a doctrine of "Godflesh" that says the body of an Amarrian Heir (and maybe a bit further down; I don't know how far) is sacred, and is not allowed to be cloned. Implanted heavily, yes. Cloned, no.
Even leaving out the whole question of actual deific edicts, it does make sense to limit stagnation and bring in fresh ideas every century or four.
[cont'd] |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 20:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Now maybe this is just a Minmatar trait, but we think outside the box. We see something discarded and wonder what else it can be used for. I am wondering what the implant was intended for. Apparently, the original purpose didn't work out so well for The Sleepers as they no longer exist... or....
Maybe, maybe not. It's always been unclear exactly what the Sleeper remnants in Anoikis actually are. There's a longstanding theory that they're an upload civilization. Admittedly, I'd have expected them to be at war with us by now, if so, considering we've been stripping their facilities for parts.
Quote: We can take it apart and put it back together, and it works the same way
Or at least, we can assemble new ones ourselves.
Quote: While we are not inside a meat sack, we can experience the digital world.
I've been doing a little experimenting with using the implant as an interface with virtual environments. I finally decided that it might not be such a good idea to get detached from the physical world, though. It's a little too comforting. Better to focus on my role, and get accustomed to its realities.
Quote:What I'm getting at is- Maybe immortality was not the intent of the implant, at least not as we use the term.
Maybe the point of the implant was to become a drone. What if the Sleepers designed the implant to achieve the first phase of a conscious drone by placing themselves into it.
If so, they behave very like automatic systems (albeit extremely nasty ones). They don't attempt to communicate, they don't show mercy.... If the Sleeper drones are the Sleepers themselves, they're a cautionary tale. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
361
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 11:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
I once had a strange visions. Decided to consult with a Genolution's therapist responsible for mercenaries care. The therapeutic session was done completely automatically. Without any interaction requirement from my part. They were really nice. I even got a recording of my visions upon my request. Thought you might like to view it too.
Here is the link to the small fragment of recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7l7_0ruwxs
WARNING: may contain some disturbing information, use at your own risk. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hm. That is ... interesting information, Mr. Niewiadomski. If it's authentic, it verifies Sleeper origins.
Not only that, but it also specifies that the implant replaces portions of the brain: the thalamus, hippocampus, and brain stem. The thalamus really catches my eye: it's closely linked to the formation of long-term memory. If that's been replaced outright, the implications are, well ... fascinating.
If the source is authentic. |
Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 22:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
After spending time with many fellow Sebiestors in the Republic and hearing their observations of successful transferring despite almost complete annihilation of the device, I considered the possibility that the implant is not the master device, but rather a bridge of sorts to serve as a main channel of information. The implant may take our consciousness, save it to an archive of sorts, and constantly uploads all memories and experiences to that archive, and when the implant is destroyed, the archive takes the latest save and uploads it to the next clone if it recieves no new information. This theory, however, does not explain how, after death, a clone body can observe and even communicate with other mercs before they decide to deploy once more. The observation within the dropsuit may be due to the implant uploading information through the nervous system of the user into the electronics of the dropsuit itself. The implant may be putting our consciousness into the dropsuit, giving the consciousness a way to observe in the event of the implant being destroyed. This consciousness running through the dropsuit may also be transmitting to the archive, thus giving our saved consciousness accurate information about cause of death even when the implant stops transmitting. The only way to ever stop complete transmission may be through absolute destruction of the dropsuit, and seeing as weapons capable of absolutely annihilating all particles of a dropsuit instantaneously have not been used yet in combat, the scenario may be viable. If this theory is true, though, then why not just put an implant inside a suit without a clone and fight? It would save us a lot of trouble and lot of money if we didn't need to mass produce bodies. I believe it may be due to the necessity of having a body there to take in stimuli in the event of dropsuit malfunction, or it may be due to the market. The earlier versions of implants may not have been able to connect to dropsuits and nervous systems as effectively to perform the functions listed above, so, in a scramble for money, companies made vast stores of clones to use with the implants, and the same companies are just putting the implants in clones anyways to not lose a fortune off of clones that can't be used soon enough to make a profit. After all, most of what happens in this universe happens for money. What plagues my mind, though, is who has access to this archive? I have never received stimuli of another entity inside my archive, if such a thing exists, but what if someone does have access to this archive, and what if they have access to multiple archives? After all we don't know exactly where this technology came from, so what if someone manipulated our discovery of it? Can our minds be manipulated to obey a single person? Is there someone or someones out there with access to an immortal army to use at any time? Am I a slave unaware of his chains? While this does sound crazy and may be nothing more than an imagination gone wild, these thoughts will always haunt the thoughts in the back of my head...... right next to my implant. |
exolden shadovar
Iron Havok
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 06:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Not but a far fetched theory but here it is.. data cannot be destroyed well at least not as we understand the word, but is merely disrupted mixed up as it were.like how we do not delete files on a computer as much as we tag it as free space and rewrite it when the space is needed.
That said what I propose is that when we die our implants build upon the snapshot theory in that when our implants recorded mental state is disrupted. By that I mean our brains blown into tiny pieces our implants both save our last known state and send all local data both corrupted and not. And then uses the snapshot to piece the data back into its original state
Far fetched and badly explain but im saying we might be more than just copies , but if I'm wrong....food for thought at least. |
Galm Fae
BetaMax Beta
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 06:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
If all of this is true however, I think we ought to start raising questions on concepts of type physicalism and dualism. When we are uploaded into a new clone, are we ourselves, or simply a perfect copy? If our immortality are just memories transferred into data, than what does that make us? Do we have a soul, or are we just a composite of memories? Am I still Galm Fae, or am I just his copy? |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
147
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 19:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fae-haan:
Capsuleers, too, have had these questions. Answers are ... difficult to come by.
For my own part, I am uncertain that it matters unless the signs of losing our souls become plain (though if every clone has its own soul, the spirit world is going to have to reserve a whole district for each one of us). Then again, my sect does not teach the existence of a soul as a sort of "spirit self" to begin with, so maybe I am just unusually comfortable with the idea of being serially mortal rather than actually immortal.
Mr. Shadovar:
The idea that information cannot be destroyed seems a little ... odd. If it is rendered irretrievably illegible, it seems about as completely destroyed as anything ever is.
Still, the idea that our lost data is procedurally restored (or approximated) somehow is an intriguing one.
Mr. Trifarn:
Your ideas are, at minimum, interesting, but could you maybe please break them up a bit? Please? |
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