DUST Search - The Nature of the Implant

Denak Kalamari wrote:

Yes, the Sleeper implant* is a very peculiar thing compared to the capsuleer implant, for the facts Ms. Ryeon has stated, the most astonishing one being the fact that a clone soldier's transfer of consiousness is flawless even when the data(read, conciousness) would become damage or otherwise unusable due to brain damage or errors in reanimating in a CRU.

I have my own hypothesis as to how the sleeper implant works. What I think is that unlike a regular capsuleer implant which takes a snapshot of the mind at the moment of death, a sleeper implant is continously streaming data to a memory bank. Similar to Hostilian's hypothesis, I believe that the sleeper implant keeps streaming data to some memory bank, and when that data is broken(ie. Death or transferring to a new clone), the data collected right up to that point is sent to the next chosen clone, thus making a full conciousness teansfer.

This is just a hypothesis though, as I am not trained into the arts of science or engineering, that is what I believe though.

*While the origins of the implant are still debated, I use the most generally used term for the implant to avoid confusion


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Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 0	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:29:00 - [1] - Quote Greetings, honored colleagues. If you will spare a little of your time, I wish to ask your thoughts on a topic that has become central to our existences, but about which we know little: the clone soldier implant. We all possess one of these. They nestle in our skulls, tucked away in our brains. They are included in our every clone. Superficially, they serve a similar purpose to a capsuleer's cloning mesh, the wire cap worn in the pod to allow emergency transfer if the pod is breached (an event that results in death as reliably as a forge gun charge through the visor). The basic technologies at play there, however, are decades old. Examined more closely, the implant is a much more peculiar and mysterious sort of device. Data points so far: * there is apparently some evidence that the implants appeared first among the Amarr, who mastered the use of implant technology many centuries ago. However, it spread to the other major empires almost at once. * the first generation of the technology, which very few of us still use and may now be actually extinct, is contaminated in some manner, apparently causing mental and emotional instability. This pattern was apparently not confined to any single nation; it spread with the technology. * the speed with which the implant responds is astonishing, or else its copying mechanism works in an unconventional manner. It's not that it can flip us from our quarters to a battlefield multiple light years away in a moment; capsuleer transfer through the fluid router network can do similarly. It's that the implant can safely transfer the consciousness contained in a brain that is in the process of being ventilated by a charged sniper railgun flechette that traverses atmosphere, shield, helmet, skull, brain, and implant, at near-C. The implication is that the implant is either somehow detecting the threat and transferring the mind faster than the flechette can disrupt it or that the disruption is, for some reason, unimportant. * download is apparently likewise non-disruptable. Destruction or hacking of a CRU in the process of activating a new clone either prevents clone activation outright or permits last-instant deployment if download is already finalized; it does not appear to corrupt the partially-downloaded consciousness. * irretrievably damaged clone soldiers, including those who have been "headshotted," retain awareness and can continue to relay intel through darkening eyes for up to several seconds after death. This suggests either the presence of hardened monitoring devices that remain active and continue to transmit data once the clone is downed, or that the consciousness is not truly present in the clone to begin with. * even a very thoroughly dead clone soldier remains mentally alert and has access to battlefield intel for the purpose of selecting a clone to inhabit. What's more, verbal communication at this time is not only possible but often very useful: frequently, the only squad member who is looking at the whole battlefield map is the one who is dead. * short observation suggests that clone soldier transfer is not subject to the same entropy as capsuleer transfer. Even at the highest quality, using an extremely expensive clone constructed from AA-certified human cadavers, a capsuleer clone transfer is still only 99.99% precise. Because capsuleers emergency clone relatively rarely (two in one week would typically be considered a very rough week), this apparently causes little trouble. Clone soldiers can clone thousands of times in a matter of weeks, and use much more rudimentary clones optimized for combat performance, yet there is little indication of widespread entropy in our personalities or memories. Further observation will probably be necessary to verify this. * as to the technology's origins: many of New Eden's greatest technological advances come from precursor civilizations, the Takhmal, Yan Jung, Sleepers, and Talocan, known collectively as the Ancients. Ancient technology can sometimes be replicated and can often be practically applied, but many pieces are poorly understood. When a previously-unknown technology appears, the Ancients are frequently the source. Of these, the Sleepers, known for the quality of their neural interfacing technology, seem the most likely candidates-- though lately the cluster has seen more of Sleeper drone technology, as regularly experienced (and battled) by the residents of Anoikis, than of neural wizardry. * to the above, we might add the Jove as a possibility. The Jove are functionally Ancients, themselves, having apparently suffered at most a minimal "dark age," while other Ancient civilizations fell. The Jove provided the Caldari with the first hydrostatic capsules used by modern capsuleers. It is possible that they similarly provided our implants, but they are generally on bad terms with the Amarr and seem unlikely to be providing gifts to the Empress. Then again, this appears to have initially been a poisoned gift. * "uploading" technology, which transfers a human consciousness onto a machine, is not exactly unknown; Zainou Biotech is known, in part, for its former CEO having uploaded himself. One major possibility from this is that clone soldiers "in transit" are converted into the form of code comprehensible to a computer, which would explain why we can communicate and consider options for tactical deployment between clones. It is also possible that this is factually our permanent state-- that our implants do not connect us "up" to a temporary housing between clones, but that we are connected "down" to our clones, using portions of their brains to process sensory data and the like while our consciousness stays safe and sound in an uploaded state, jerking the strings of combat-optimized puppet bodies. Of course, until we learn more, any conclusions we might draw will remain purest speculation. If you have thoughts, please share them with us.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 0	Posted - 2013.07.06 00:01:00 - [2] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: Yes, the Sleeper implant* is a very peculiar thing compared to the capsuleer implant, for the facts Ms. Ryeon has stated, the most astonishing one being the fact that a clone soldier's transfer of consiousness is flawless even when the data(read, conciousness) would become damage or otherwise unusable due to brain damage or errors in reanimating in a CRU. I have my own hypothesis as to how the sleeper implant works. What I think is that unlike a regular capsuleer implant which takes a snapshot of the mind at the moment of death, a sleeper implant is continously streaming data to a memory bank. Similar to Hostilian's hypothesis, I believe that the sleeper implant keeps streaming data to some memory bank, and when that data is broken(ie. Death or transferring to a new clone), the data collected right up to that point is sent to the next chosen clone, thus making a full conciousness teansfer. This is just a hypothesis though, as I am not trained into the arts of science or engineering, that is what I believe though. *While the origins of the implant are still debated, I use the most generally used term for the implant to avoid confusion That sort of "streaming," like to Hostilian Prime's "journal" idea (if there's even really a difference), does seem like a possibility, Mr. Kalamari, and it seems as though it might evade some of the possible legal issues of a fully uploaded infomorph. The result would be a continually-updated backup. This, however, would also require that our perceptions after being struck down come from our equipment, not our eyes, and that the suit have independent means of communicating these perceptions to us. This seems possible, but maybe a bit complicated for the limited result: why not just install a rotation-capable camera and let the fallen capsuleer monitor and report hostile activity for more than just a few seconds? Perhaps the engineers behind our equipment design thought that using our own corpses as camera emplacements would be too disturbing?
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:59:00 - [3] - Quote Mr. Threen: Your explanations are plausible in places, but there are problems. * Your story of the implant's origins is perhaps plausible. I'm curious about your sources, however-- you speak with a lot of certainty. * We do not have the sensations of death cut off even now. Some injuries barely hurt; there's a sense of shock, but little more. Others ... well, I try to avoid engaging sub-machine gun users at close range, just in case I'm facing a horrid wretch using a Toxin variant. Gods and spirits, why does that atrocious device even exist...? Also, this explanation does not cover the "514" first-gen signature issue. * Your idea of a "master clone" is certainly a possibility-- that we are just bouncing up to the war barge temporarily, where our suited bodies are sort of lying around in a pile on the war room floor. However (1) there can be no single such clone for each of us-- we transfer a distance of light years in a few moments to reach those war barges in the first place, and while the InterBus is good, it's not quite that good; (2) the existence of such a clone would create a systemic vulnerability whereby we could be permanently destroyed with a well-timed strike on the warbarge or in our quarters while we are "away"-- a critical and all-too-easily exploited gap that doesn't seem necessary for our function and would probably haave made the pogrom against the first generation substantially easier (since those hunting them were presumably aware of any such vulnerabilities). I'd put it under "plausible, but far-fetched." * I'd be a little surprised if my clone was still capable of supporting my consciousness after taking a rail flechette through her noggin. I get to decide whether to abandon a clone that can still be revived, but one that gets pulped with an explosive charge or has her gray matter ventilated? Not so much. Yet I still receive at least those few seconds of continued vision. On which note.... Mr. Childhaspawn: You may be correct. Capsuleer camera drones are cheap, but they're probably not small enough for battlefield use. Still, you might expect some of the prototype gear to start incorporating a more sophisticated sensor package to gather better intel before the eraser vaporizes the clone, sensors and all.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 21	Posted - 2013.07.08 20:02:00 - [4] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: I suppose if it ever got to the point where suits were customizable, it would be possible to remove some of the less vital organs from the combat clones in order to fit bigger sensor packages. The life expectancy of the combat clone ,in practice, is never more than 15 minutes, and averages from .5 to 1. Planet dwellers can live without their gastrointestinal tract for cycles, Dont see why a combat clone needs it at all. Thats almost .25 cm^3 of space right there. Um ... do you possibly mean "meters?" .25 cm^3 seems small. Also, it seems like missing the gastrointestinal tract would have all sorts of potentially troublesome complications. Our clones have to be grown before we move in, remember, and there's a good deal of modification in play already. Finally, the queasy squirming I'm presently feeling in my gut at the idea seems to suggest that the modification would take some getting used to, psychologically. They have gone to some trouble to try and keep us human-ish, you know, which seems to be partly for the sake of our mental well-being. Quote: Back to the implant. Amarrians are the greatest religious zealots known, all for the god-queen and such. It makes sense that they use the implant for the immortality effect. The only reason the Amarrians ever change at all is because every 5 centuries or so their ruler goes insane from the sense of invulnerability that all of the cybernetic replacement parts grant. Using the implant instead of replacing parts, could potentially allow the Empress to rule without the ugliness of insanity -for all time. Just so it's out there, the Amarr don't let their emperors rule in perpetuity; there's a doctrine of "Godflesh" that says the body of an Amarrian Heir (and maybe a bit further down; I don't know how far) is sacred, and is not allowed to be cloned. Implanted heavily, yes. Cloned, no. Even leaving out the whole question of actual deific edicts, it does make sense to limit stagnation and bring in fresh ideas every century or four. [cont'd]
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 21	Posted - 2013.07.08 20:02:00 - [5] - Quote Quote: Now maybe this is just a Minmatar trait, but we think outside the box. We see something discarded and wonder what else it can be used for. I am wondering what the implant was intended for. Apparently, the original purpose didn't work out so well for The Sleepers as they no longer exist... or.... Maybe, maybe not. It's always been unclear exactly what the Sleeper remnants in Anoikis actually are. There's a longstanding theory that they're an upload civilization. Admittedly, I'd have expected them to be at war with us by now, if so, considering we've been stripping their facilities for parts. Quote: We can take it apart and put it back together, and it works the same way Or at least, we can assemble new ones ourselves. Quote: While we are not inside a meat sack, we can experience the digital world. I've been doing a little experimenting with using the implant as an interface with virtual environments. I finally decided that it might not be such a good idea to get detached from the physical world, though. It's a little too comforting. Better to focus on my role, and get accustomed to its realities. Quote: What I'm getting at is- Maybe immortality was not the intent of the implant, at least not as we use the term. Maybe the point of the implant was to become a drone. What if the Sleepers designed the implant to achieve the first phase of a conscious drone by placing themselves into it. If so, they behave very like automatic systems (albeit extremely nasty ones). They don't attempt to communicate, they don't show mercy.... If the Sleeper drones are the Sleepers themselves, they're a cautionary tale.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 98	Posted - 2013.07.17 16:40:00 - [6] - Quote Hm. That is ... interesting information, Mr. Niewiadomski. If it's authentic, it verifies Sleeper origins. Not only that, but it also specifies that the implant replaces portions of the brain: the thalamus, hippocampus, and brain stem. The thalamus really catches my eye: it's closely linked to the formation of long-term memory. If that's been replaced outright, the implications are, well ... fascinating. If the source is authentic.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 147	Posted - 2013.07.31 19:00:00 - [7] - Quote Fae-haan: Capsuleers, too, have had these questions. Answers are ... difficult to come by. For my own part, I am uncertain that it matters unless the signs of losing our souls become plain (though if every clone has its own soul, the spirit world is going to have to reserve a whole district for each one of us). Then again, my sect does not teach the existence of a soul as a sort of "spirit self" to begin with, so maybe I am just unusually comfortable with the idea of being serially mortal rather than actually immortal. Mr. Shadovar: The idea that information cannot be destroyed seems a little ... odd. If it is rendered irretrievably illegible, it seems about as completely destroyed as anything ever is. Still, the idea that our lost data is procedurally restored (or approximated) somehow is an intriguing one. Mr. Trifarn: Your ideas are, at minimum, interesting, but could you maybe please break them up a bit? Please?