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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
28
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 05:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
The idea of a creating a custom spawn point is pretty awesome. It lets you decide where you want to spawn and can change the tide of the battle by allowing the team to get into an area quickly and efficiently. The mechanic itself can present many problems for the enemy team because it creates a separate, unpredictable avenue for your own team to enter the battlefield.
Now, I'm sure many of us have witnessed the uplink nests in hard to reach areas or a complete lockdown of an area because there are too many uplinks. There are certain counters, namely flux grenades, which can be great tools in clearing out uplink/nanohive infestations. The point I'm here to try and get people to discuss is where they see uplinks in the future and how we can better tie them into the game. At present, the mechanic is horribly abused as Logis fit with 3 different types of uplinks go into a city or what have you and drop 8-10 uplinks all around the area. Multiply that times several other teammates and you have an everlasting shining beacon of uplinks cluttering your minimap.
The problem is most evident in PC matches where it effectively comes down to establishing a turtle around a certain number of points and swarming those points with uplinks so you can always get into the battle immediately. This is great and all because it keeps the battlefield lively and no shortage of foes, but it seems like the problem has gotten out of hand because it becomes so difficult to kill ALL the uplinks as there's always that one Logi who can throw down those 8 uplinks all over again at will. Uplinks are great, but there needs to be some sort of personal and/or team limit on the presence of uplinks. There are a few solutions I've seen mentioned but I'm eager to hear what people think of them. I'm in no haste to try and get rid of them, but I seriously think they need to be looked at as uplinks are making it impossible to take points because of the constant turtle and 3 second spawns. Here are some ideas:
1) Uplinks emit some sort of radius (in X, Y, and Z direction) that prevents the placement of another uplink within that radius.
2) A player can only drop a limit of 3 active uplinks (of which only one proto uplink variant is capable of). Any uplink past the third one will destroy the first accordingly. This is to prevent people who will fit a Logi with 2 different proto and 1 advanced variant and subsequently be capable of dropping 8 uplinks, then switching into fits with different variants and dropping even MORE uplinks.
3) Objectives could also have some sort of spawn radius where uplinks couldn't be dropped. This would make capturing objectives a little more prudent as far as preventing the team from spawning in the area and also give people some breathing room after capping an objective.
Discuss. |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
29
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Posted - 2013.07.05 15:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
405
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 15:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:The idea of a creating a custom spawn point is pretty awesome. It lets you decide where you want to spawn and can change the tide of the battle by allowing the team to get into an area quickly and efficiently. The mechanic itself can present many problems for the enemy team because it creates a separate, unpredictable avenue for your own team to enter the battlefield.
Now, I'm sure many of us have witnessed the uplink nests in hard to reach areas or a complete lockdown of an area because there are too many uplinks. There are certain counters, namely flux grenades, which can be great tools in clearing out uplink/nanohive infestations. The point I'm here to try and get people to discuss is where they see uplinks in the future and how we can better tie them into the game. At present, the mechanic is horribly abused as Logis fit with 3 different types of uplinks go into a city or what have you and drop 8-10 uplinks all around the area. Multiply that times several other teammates and you have an everlasting shining beacon of uplinks cluttering your minimap.
The problem is most evident in PC matches where it effectively comes down to establishing a turtle around a certain number of points and swarming those points with uplinks so you can always get into the battle immediately. This is great and all because it keeps the battlefield lively and no shortage of foes, but it seems like the problem has gotten out of hand because it becomes so difficult to kill ALL the uplinks as there's always that one Logi who can throw down those 8 uplinks all over again at will. Uplinks are great, but there needs to be some sort of personal and/or team limit on the presence of uplinks. There are a few solutions I've seen mentioned but I'm eager to hear what people think of them. I'm in no haste to try and get rid of them, but I seriously think they need to be looked at as uplinks are making it impossible to take points because of the constant turtle and 3 second spawns. Here are some ideas:
1) Uplinks emit some sort of radius (in X, Y, and Z direction) that prevents the placement of another uplink within that radius.
2) A player can only drop a limit of 3 active uplinks (of which only one proto uplink variant is capable of). Any uplink past the third one will destroy the first accordingly. This is to prevent people who will fit a Logi with 2 different proto and 1 advanced variant and subsequently be capable of dropping 8 uplinks, then switching into fits with different variants and dropping even MORE uplinks.
3) Objectives could also have some sort of spawn radius where uplinks couldn't be dropped. This would make capturing objectives a little more prudent as far as preventing the team from spawning in the area and also give people some breathing room after capping an objective.
4) Reduce the total number of spawns on ALL the uplinks. 20 spawns is way too much for a single uplink, especially considering that most people are usually dropping at least 3 of them around. Each uplink should have at most 5 spawns with a variant that could spawn 10 or something along those lines. 20 spawns for a single uplink can last a whole game, and at that rate, what is the point of capturing a Clone Reanimation Unit? The CRUs, in my eyes, have ceased to be even worth capping because I can get more warpoints and safer spawns by just going around and putting uplinks everywhere.
5) The description for uplinks states that the use of uplinks is "incredibly painful" and yet there is no detriment to spawning on the uplink. For the cost of a custom spawn, there needs to be a cost of something like temporarily increased damage received or a depleted shield for 10 seconds after spawning. I'm sure people could think of better alternatives, but the cost of a custom spawn needs to have some sort of tactical drawback. This would make placing uplinks in strategic areas more pertinent instead of spamming them nigh everywhere that currently allows a team to swarm an area without drawback.
Discuss.
Add the ability to hack uplinks. Solved
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1137
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 16:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
The uplink spam only came about because Uprising made all uplinks show up on the map regardless of where you were hiding them. The strategy element of concealing an uplink became bunk, and so people HAVE to spam links to keep from have all their spawns wiped out quickly. Using Pre-uprising tactics and having even 2-3 links at one general location can still have them all wiped in the space of a few seconds because they're all instantly visible to people that show up there.
Spam is one solution to this problem (a single merc can take out 3 links in an area very quickly, not so much for 8 links), and putting links where people straight-up can't get to them is another (enter the dropship).
I think fixing the broadcast of the link location is a better solution than most of your suggestions, as I think links functioned pretty well pre-uprising. We had this huge nerf to our ability to detect other players, with an extremely paltry range. However, we all became clairvoyant when it comes to detecting enemy droplinks.
Have it closer to pre-uprising, maybe have scanners pick them up... that's a better fix I think. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
120
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 16:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote: Add the ability to hack uplinks. Solved
So instead of killing 10 uplinks you think it would be faster to hack them?
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Daedric Lothar
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
844
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 16:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Uplinks seem fine to me. I like the freedom of being able to spawn wherever you want to. It's balanced by the fact you have a clone count and you need someone to actually drop the uplink. I'm not sure if you can throw uplinks out the side of a dropship, that would be alittle broke. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
141
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Posted - 2013.07.05 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
OP makes a great point about CRU being made redundant.
The mass uplink tactic is very cheap. Its funny that people complain about noob tubes and the murder taxis but have no issue with this. It is an abuse of what was intended. And even if we just hide them from view it wouldnt stop the tactic, the box is already open.
Many of the suggestions seem fair. I would also like to see a proximity sensor where you cant put down a link within x meters of each other.
They definitely should not be visible to the full map as they are now though, should only be detected if you get close enough or LOS. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
408
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: Add the ability to hack uplinks. Solved
So instead of killing 10 uplinks you think it would be faster to hack them?
I don't mean a hack speed similar to a objective, but adding a tool that hacks uplinks of the same tier and under in 2-3 seconds. With a flux variant that hacks two at once. This would force people to strategically place their uplinks since spamming a bunch would make them more visible due to the glow they emit. Also it allows to turn the tide of the battle by hacking a well placed uplink.
Of course this would require that uplinks remain hidden unless your extremely close to them. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
585
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 17:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
uplink spam is a problem in PC for sure.
its not as much about teamwork and tactics... more about swarming objective until you can clear all of the enemy uplinks and lay down around 5-10 of your own.
Minimaps in city areas in PC have so many uplinks on both sides down, that it takes the client upwards of 5-6s to render all of them on the map when trying to spawn in. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
665
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 17:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
See this thread for how to improve the Drop Uplink situation as well as spawning in general https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=881177#post881177
As said above in this thread, some of the problems with Uplinks comes from the fact that they always show up for the other team and you then have to spam them to have success with them. Another reason is the insanely short spawntime when using Uplinks (Proto Uplinks in particular), which makes the already limited number of CRUs very redundant. |
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M3DIC 2U
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
68
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Posted - 2013.07.05 18:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with points 2, 3, and 5
4 I don't, because I think by implementing the others, that the links should be more hearty as the skill points required to get to the decent ones deserves some kind of reward.
Or perhaps break it off into two skills. One to obtain the unit, another to increase the amount of spawns through it
I think each person should only be allowed the 3 total spawn points regardless of type. Though same should be said then for nanohives, otherwise I can load up a proto logi suit with 4 types of links, dump them, die and come back with 4 types of nanohives and repeat as needed.
Though I have noticed that links seem to die a touch easier with flux grenades or is it just my imagination? |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm not advocating all the points I listed be implemented, only that something be done about uplink spam (especially in PC) since it has become the most viable strategy. It's not necessarily one that can be easily countered either since the only counter is to just get rid of uplinks and put down 10 of your own. Uplinks seem to have too little tactical use at the moment besides swarming objectives with them to overwhelm the enemy with teamspawning. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
just limit the total amount of uplink alowed on the field.. like vehicles.... |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
M3DIC 2U wrote: Though I have noticed that links seem to die a touch easier with flux grenades or is it just my imagination?
Flux grenades do a ton of damage to electronic equipment (>1000) and have a pretty big radius so they're currently one of the most viable ways to take out uplinks. The problem isn't finding/killing an uplink or two, it's when you go for an objective but there's 10 of them and the enemy is spawning on each of the others when you kill one. My biggest hopes are some solutions to uplink spam as well as preventing uplink placement around already designated spawn areas (Objectives, CRUs, namely). |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
204
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 18:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
The number of uplinks needs to be limited per team....the current uplink spam is ridiculously game breaking. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1137
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 19:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
We need to be careful not to do something that works for PC but not for public matches. For example, putting limits of five users would be a killer for some public matches where there are only a few uplinks put out.
I do like the idea of limiting the number of active uplinks, hives or whatnot by user not by variation.
Perhaps make uplinks similar to a suit in terms of visibility (though suit visibility might need fixing also) and then make them noisier when people spawn on them -- so they are more apt to give themselves away to nearby people when someone spawns on them. Of course, the scanner would be able to pick them up if they were given a suitable profile.
Additionally, when you go to drop one it wouldn't be too annoying to be told the team limit has been reached (as long as the number is not ridiculously low -- or it would be very annoying). |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.07.10 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
I find this whole thread silly.
If there is too much uplink/hive spam, spawn with fluxes and nanohives and clear them all out.
If you're talking about uplinks/hives amassed around a supply depot due to Logis changing fits and spamming every type of uplink/nanohive they have access to, then here's an idea - remove the supply depot. Either destroy it or remove it entirely from PC matches.
If Logis are spawning in with multiple uplinks and laying them down between deaths, then it's their choice what equipment they bring and die with. It's their ISK.
I've never played a PC battle. Is there no limit on the clones available for PC battles or something? Last time I checked, you needed to DIE to use an uplink. Therefore if they are swarming you because of their uplinks, you're doing a good job of killing them, aren't you? Keep up the good work, Merc!
Edited to add: If you're going to limit the number of uplinks/nanohives on the field, then why not go whole hog and limit the number of Flaylocks/Mass Drivers/HMGs that can be used? Heck, let's just revert to Day of Defeat style classes where your gun/equipment is limited to preselected character options available on a first come, first served basis! |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 20:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
in pc defending team normally had over 300 clones....
and alot of proto gear is involved. its horrible.... |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
739
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 20:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think instead of limiting uplinks per team, it should just be per person and not distinguish between variants. It'd give a very strong incentive to get prototype links. So as an example:
I run around placing standard uplinks. I change suits to one that has a different type of uplink. When I place one off of the new suit, all the old uplinks go poof. If I want more than one link I have to use at least the RD9 or whatever it is. If I want more than 2, then I need to go proto. Once that is done then making the links harder to detect will actually accomplish something.
I like the idea of some kind of penalty for spawning on an uplink. You could do something interesting like spawning with no stamina, or unable to fire your weapons for a moment. Something to encourage people to place links in sheltered locations, rather than just throwing them around like confetti. |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
57
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 00:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think at the very least something should be done about the number of active uplinks one character can drop. |
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Aquinarius Zoltanus
0uter.Heaven
162
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Posted - 2013.07.11 00:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yup, I agree that something should be done. My favorite suggestion is just a hard limit of 3 active links per person. I really don't think that CCP intended people to put that many down, hence why equipping multiple of the same type won't let you exceed the limit.
And to the one guy who was against these changes ... Sorry, but I stopped reading your post when I saw 'I have never played in a PC match'. This particular issue is something that really only affects PC, you hardly ever see more than 3 uplinks total on your team in pub matches. There just isn't enough at stake in pub matches for someone to run a suit w/ 3 different types of uplinks, and there definitely isn't enough teamwork/coordination. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
77
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Posted - 2013.07.11 02:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Three uplinks per person is still almost 50 uplinks per team, and would only get worse as the player cap increases.
That's why I think it's better to have a team cap, just like vehicles. |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
59
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Posted - 2013.07.11 04:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Three uplinks per person is still almost 50 uplinks per team, and would only get worse as the player cap increases.
That's why I think it's better to have a team cap, just like vehicles.
That would still require that EVERYONE on the team is skilled into prototype uplinks, which is fine. I'm all for team strategies that involve coordination to that level, but right now all it takes is one or two people to spam the hell out of uplinks which should definitely not be allowed. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
208
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Posted - 2013.07.11 06:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Those suggesting to use nades to kill 10+ uplinks...don't be ridiculous!! Your team would have to use all their nades to take out those droplinks...and given that they're spread out, you simply can't do it fast enough before the enemy team respawns.
Fact is, 99.9% of the time the team spamming the most uplinks in Domination first wins. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
550
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Posted - 2013.07.12 01:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:
Add the ability to hack uplinks. Solved
Nope. That would make the sea of links even worse.
Some would be in a hurry and rather nade em out, but the others would go for points/gain a link. |
Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
To me it can be used as a minimap scrambler........Sooo many icons u can't see anything pop up this needs to be fixed |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
77
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Posted - 2013.07.12 04:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:Three uplinks per person is still almost 50 uplinks per team, and would only get worse as the player cap increases.
That's why I think it's better to have a team cap, just like vehicles. That would still require that EVERYONE on the team is skilled into prototype uplinks, which is fine.
Or maybe they deploy with an R-9 uplink, drop both, then die and deploy with a Stable Uplink to deal with the shifting battlefront. Either way, 48 uplinks.
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Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
185
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Posted - 2013.07.12 07:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
I like your post, very methodical. You've hit the problem on the head. CCp listen to this guy.
Some uplinks you can't even kill. I like the 30hp per spawn or something, because it is painful. I like the breathing room idea or else it will be a stale battle. One side keeps spawning on the same spot, no movement from either side. They should take out the spawning in objectives! That's what uplinks and crus are for. I've killed many guys and so have they, and it is BS. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
79
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Posted - 2013.07.12 07:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Uplink spam originated in PC battles, where spawning on capture points is deliberately forbidden. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
185
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 07:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shadow Archeus wrote:To me it can be used as a minimap scrambler........Sooo many icons u can't see anything pop up this needs to be fixed That' is dumb too. They need to take out that pulse that obj. and crus and uplinks make when on the big map You can't see nothing with those pulses. We know where the objctvs are because they are clear to see already. |
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