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Rinzler XVIII
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.07.04 07:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll probably get alot of hate for this thread from the AR brigade but the proto charge sniper rifle needs to have its damage increased or if failing that have the head shot bonus not only returned to its former lvl damage % but have it increased to 250% because to not be able to kill ppl in 1 shot when you hit them in the head with the highest damaging proto sniper rifle with max damage mods makes the whole point of sniper rifles pointless ... I don;t even use them anymore and on my logi bro i get sniped alot but I don;t QQ about it I accept that i shouldn;t have been out in the open and that the shot deserves some praise seeing as I know they are looking at a spec moving across the map and it seems to me you've got the whole Sniper role wrong ... having to get 2/3/4 shots on a moving target from 300/400m + is a ludricously difficult task and seeing as snipers have a very low hit box to actually get a headshot let alone a headshot on a moving target then that kind of skill needs to be rewarded ...
I do accept that whilst there are blueberries sniping from the red line ppl will complain and disapprove of any idea that makes snipers the 1 shot killers they should be (with a headshot) so any increase in sniper damage would have to be offset with something that prevents ppl red line sniping (i dont actually have a problem with this as i'd switch to a counter sniper and pick them off) but with the new changes you've implemented to the sniper class it is pretty much unplayable and you'd be better off removign it all together and adding binoculars because that's basically what they've become.
Again I have to emphasise that I don't use my sniper anymore as i prefer a logi bro play style but I still think Snipers should be alot stronger than what they currently are after all they are ranged anti infantry .. i remember picking gunners off who were flying round in a dropship (needing 2 hits to kill them) which is exactly the type of gameplay that should be encouraged (completely nullifying a dropship singlehandedly reducing it too a flying barrel with fish in it for me to kill was sweet) Snipers should be more than eyes they should have the power to take out vehicle drivers/gunners in 1 shot (a really fast moving target is as hard as it gets and if you get a headshot you deserve the kill)
I understand alot of players would hate this idea but I love the games when an opponents sniper has been picking ppl off in skirmish and my squad is having to coordinate around where they think the sniper is ... 1 sniper on any battlefield should have that kind of influence, as it is everyone knows if you have half decent armour they wont be able to kill you without hitting you multiple times which takes away the fear factor and I think all the QQ from ppl who think sniping is easy and that they shouldn;t be able to kill them is a bit ridiculous .. again im only mentioning the charge rifle here because that is the most powerful sniper gun, I would concur that any damage bonus added to the charge rifles could be offset with longer charge times or have it that the longer it's charged the more powerful the shot .. with the tac and normal sniper rifles because they hav efaster shots they dont neccesarily need a huge power increase but a charge rifle definitely does .. for all intents and purposes the way you've made it is to be a 1 hit kill gun and for it not to be able to take out proto armour with a headshot makes its design flawed PS PS certain AR's have increased range damage and a faster fire rate so I see no reason why you've reduced sniper rifle damage |
Shae Daix
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.07.05 06:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
The red line smiling thing I can't understand.
Sniping isn't sniping if it's done right next to you. That just some guy shooting you.
Isn't sniping "precision shooting at a distance"?
the rifles really are crazy weak. I shot someone 6 times the other day. I emptied the mag. And they were aimed shots. How could I aim , shoot 5 times, reload, and shoot again, carefully enough to actually hit my target?
Because they didn't duck, dodge, or run. ( Or do the Watusi, or a Michael Jackson impression, moonwalking all over the place. )
They were asleep, or making a sandwich or , more likely, they were aware they had no reason to worry.
And they were right. 'Cause I didn't even knock their shield off.
I was dinged before I could shoot again, and ran off with no shield and a sliver of armor left.
One of the few times I managed to get away.
There's something not right about that though. A sniper rifle is a sniper rifle, not a machine gun. You shouldn't have to burn
multiple mags to take down a single target. And I agree as we'll, that they shouldn't been made into all powerful thunderbolts either. There's got to be a happy medium someplace. |
Delenne Arran
Ivory Hounds
21
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Posted - 2013.07.05 07:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shae Daix wrote:The red line smiling thing I can't understand.
Sniping isn't sniping if it's done right next to you. That just some guy shooting you.
Isn't sniping "precision shooting at a distance"? [...]
The problem we have with red-line sniping isn't that we want you guys to have to snipe from 20 yards away. It's that by hiding in the redline, a sniper can basically only be killed by another sniper-- a scout can't loop around back and introduce you to his shotgun while you'e scoped in on something else, so you have basically nothing to fear. The maps where the redline also coincides with a mountain range prevents us from spotting you at all. This is, arguably, the point, but it prevents any real counter to it. Instead of "OK, we'll split up and try and get him from both sides," or "OK, Steve, you put on your sniper fit and take him out" it's "Ugh, there's a sniper somewhere on this map, going 15 and 0 without having to move because no one can kill him." Realistic? Sure. Fun? Nope.
As for headshots needing to always be one-hit-kills... I don't know. I think someone who's making a point of stacking shields and/or armor at the expense of damage or speed should be able to take at least one headshot, even if it means a subsequent body shot is certain death. It kinda breaks the FPS "rule" (as well as conventional wisdom) that a headshot is always an instant kill, but then, most FPS games don't allow you to surround your head with an electromagnetic field and several inches of armor plating, specifically designed to stop metal and plasma moving at supersonic speeds. |
George Moros
WarRavens
League of Infamy
21
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Posted - 2013.07.05 07:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree with the OP. Sniper rifles are worthless against proto suits. It's completely ridiculous to hit the guy in a medium suit 3 times with a tactical sniper, and to see him still standing. Charge sniper should be able to OHK anything but a heavy, or a full proto assault suit. Going for headshots is only doable against stationary targets (in 90% of the cases, that would be other snipers). You can get a headshot on a distant moving target only by sheer chance, even if he's not aware he's being sniped. When sniping proto suits, the best I can hope for is to maybe take down their shields in order to help teammates take them down, or to finish off those trying to disengage and recharge/rep.
IMHO, the problem is that sniper rifle damage (and most other weapon damage for that matter, but it's not that obvious) isn't properly scaled with potential EHP you can get with proto suit / modules. Full proto EHP can be 3 times higher than a basic suit of the same type, and sniper rifle damage of a proto sniper is what? 10-15% higher than that of basic sniper rifle. This effectively means that, when moving up through tiers/meta levels, snipers are transformed from 1-2-shots-to-kill weapons into I-need-an-ammo-truck-to-kill-that-guy weapons. |
George Moros
WarRavens
League of Infamy
21
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Posted - 2013.07.05 08:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Delenne Arran wrote:
The problem we have with red-line sniping isn't that we want you guys to have to snipe from 20 yards away. It's that by hiding in the redline, a sniper can basically only be killed by another sniper-- a scout can't loop around back and introduce you to his shotgun while you'e scoped in on something else, so you have basically nothing to fear.
I very rarely do redline sniping. In fact, you can more often find me near the enemy redline, trying to shoot form flank or behind, rather than inside my own redline. And even then, 4 out of 5 times I get killed, it's from an enemy sniper, not a shotgun scout. If you choose your spot carefully and redeploy smartly (and that is the most important thing a sniper should do), any scout who has chosen his dedicated role to be "sniper hunter" is IMHO just wasting a slot in the team roster.
The best counter to snipers are other snipers, redline or no redline. This is just fact, plain and simple. |
TheEnd762
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
82
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Posted - 2013.07.05 08:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
+1 to fixing snipers. |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
156
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Posted - 2013.07.05 09:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
While as a scout I can't really fathom taking more than 1 sniper shot and staying alive I do agree that the sniper rifle damage does need a bit of an adjustment. I favor a balanced approach, increasing the proto rifle damage (regular, tac and charged) by some base %, maybe 10% to start, but also increasing the headshot bonus to about 200 or 210%....
That way the proto rifles can more effectively counter the proto suits, while all rifles have somewhat more realistic headshot bonus.
I agree that our suits are pretty advanced with the shields and armor... but a railgun round to the head needs to do a significant amount of damage. I think it's about 175% at the moment.... that doesn't seem right to me.
For me, a medium proto suit should be able to tank 2 shots, maybe 3 from an SR if they are all body shots. prob 3-4 for a heavy at proto level.
In terms of counter sniping, I can run pretty damn far into the redline. And I do when hunting a sniper, which is an activity I only partake in when they kill me. It only costs me 6-7k per death so 20 seconds can bring me, or any other scout, pretty far behind the enemy redline for a very gratifying, very prejudiced, suicide kill.... especially if causes someone to loose a Thales and proto suit. Sweet, sweet justice..... |
Delenne Arran
Ivory Hounds
24
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Posted - 2013.07.05 09:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
George Moros wrote:
I very rarely do redline sniping. In fact, you can more often find me near the enemy redline, trying to shoot form flank or behind, rather than inside my own redline. And even then, 4 out of 5 times I get killed, it's from an enemy sniper, not a shotgun scout. If you choose your spot carefully and redeploy smartly (and that is the most important thing a sniper should do), any scout who has chosen his dedicated role to be "sniper hunter" is IMHO just wasting a slot in the team roster.
The best counter to snipers are other snipers, redline or no redline. This is just fact, plain and simple.
I absolutely agree that the best counter to a sniper is another sniper. It should not, however, be the only counter. The scout was just a hypothetical. Snipers--really, any 'class'-- should be able to be dealt with in ways other than "Have one of your own" and "Sit there and take it." This doesn't mean "beat them at their own game" can't be the easiest or best way to go about it, just that doing it any other way shouldn't be considered a fluke.
In addition, while you, yourself rarely redline, and actually follow the rule of thumb of "Two or three shots from one location, then move before the other team sees you," others are not that skilled or "honorable," instead choosing to set up a tent behind some rocks for the duration of the match. Ideally, nerfs should hurt those who use mechanics as a crutch, while leaving more skilled players more or less unharmed, but the ideal is rarely what we get in life. |
George Moros
WarRavens
League of Infamy
22
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Posted - 2013.07.05 10:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Delenne Arran wrote:
I absolutely agree that the best counter to a sniper is another sniper. It should not, however, be the only counter. The scout was just a hypothetical. Snipers--really, any 'class'-- should be able to be dealt with in ways other than "Have one of your own" and "Sit there and take it." This doesn't mean "beat them at their own game" can't be the easiest or best way to go about it, just that doing it any other way shouldn't be considered a fluke.
Sure. There are many ways to dispose of a sniper. Just the other day, I got killed by a guy who landed a freakin' dropship on my head!  However, if the only significant threat to your team are a couple of redline snipers, than that usually means you've pinned the opposing team to the last 1-2 spawn points you can't touch because they're behind the redline, and already won the match.
Delenne Arran wrote:
In addition, while you, yourself rarely redline, and actually follow the rule of thumb of "Two or three shots from one location, then move before the other team sees you," others are not that skilled or "honorable," instead choosing to set up a tent behind some rocks for the duration of the match. Ideally, nerfs should hurt those who use mechanics as a crutch, while leaving more skilled players more or less unharmed, but the ideal is rarely what we get in life.
Oh, there's nothing honorable about me not redlining and/or camping often. If I can set up a camp (inside or outside the redline), from which I have plenty of targets to shoot at, and am fairly confident I'm not spotted, I'll camp there for the whole match. However, that very rarely happens and I'm forced to redeploy, or sit and do nothing. Hell, in some cases, if the spot is really good, I'll even ignore redeploying regardless of the risk of being spotted, and just keep firing until I get shot or run out of ammo. |
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