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Cyrille Fodeux Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:55:00 - [1] - Quote It is ridiculous that a Support class Dropsuit gets so many High/Low Slots. They give up: 1 Sidearm Slot Some eHP For this two things they get 2-3 Equipment Slots 1-2 High/Low Slots More PG/CPU Better Scan Precision It would suit better if they would give up some High/Low Slots instead of the eHP. There should also be some other minor changes. So the Logi should have if compared to the basic suit: Less High/Low Slots No Sidearm More Equipment Slots More PG/CPU Higher Scan Radius (instead of Scan Precision) Also as a general for Specializations should they cost more than the Basic Dropsuit and not less!
Buster Friently Rosen Association 847	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:00:00 - [2] - Quote They also give up speed. Also, logistics are fine.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2156	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:00:00 - [3] - Quote Play logi and you'll realize that giving up a sidearm is a huge deal. Also, Minmatar logi had the exact same slot layout but with more HP in chrome, how come nobody complained about logis then? You must be one of those people who thinks all logis are OP or something. And last but not least, most of the class suits are cheaper than the basic frames. lolCommando doesn't count.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 369	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:03:00 - [4] - Quote Cyrille Fodeux wrote: It is ridiculous that a Support class Dropsuit gets so many High/Low Slots. They give up: 1 Sidearm Slot Some eHP For this two things they get 2-3 Equipment Slots 1-2 High/Low Slots More PG/CPU Better Scan Precision It would suit better if they would give up some High/Low Slots instead of the eHP. There should also be some other minor changes. So the Logi should have if compared to the basic suit: Less High/Low Slots No Sidearm More Equipment Slots More PG/CPU Higher Scan Radius (instead of Scan Precision) Also as a general for Specializations should they cost more than the Basic Dropsuit and not less! Take my slots and set them equal to a equivalent assault suit, buff my HP to also be equivalent, let me keep my CPU/PG, don't buff my speed which is 6% slower and give me a sidearm slot.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 369	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:07:00 - [5] - Quote Except for the Caldari suit. A logistic suit compared to a assault suit, even with that 1 extra slot we get, cannot get higher EHP than an assault suit because of the higher base EHP. The reason we have more CPU/PG is for equipment not for modules. I can build an assault with all proto modules, a proto weapon and a advanced equipment; I can also build a logistics suit with all proto modules, a advanced weapon and a mixture of advanced and proto equipment, even so I still have lower EHP than you, I am slower, and my weapon is weaker.
Cyrille Fodeux Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:12:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Play logi and you'll realize that giving up a sidearm is a huge deal. Also, Minmatar logi had the exact same slot layout but with more HP in chrome, how come nobody complained about logis then? You must be one of those people who thinks all logis are OP or something. And last but not least, most of the class suits are cheaper than the basic frames. lolCommando doesn't count. Chromosome doesn-¦t count here. There was just one Logi and the Assault was the Basic Frame. Nobody complained then because they had less PG/CPU then. They had to leave High/Low Slots empty to fill all Equipment Slots. The Class Suits, how you call them, should not be cheaper. If you edit something it costs. Why should it be cheaper here?
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 375	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:21:00 - [7] - Quote Cyrille Fodeux wrote: Cosgar wrote: Play logi and you'll realize that giving up a sidearm is a huge deal. Also, Minmatar logi had the exact same slot layout but with more HP in chrome, how come nobody complained about logis then? You must be one of those people who thinks all logis are OP or something. And last but not least, most of the class suits are cheaper than the basic frames. lolCommando doesn't count. Chromosome doesn-¦t count here. There was just one Logi and the Assault was the Basic Frame. Nobody complained then because they had less PG/CPU then. They had to leave High/Low Slots empty to fill all Equipment Slots. The Class Suits, how you call them, should not be cheaper. If you edit something it costs. Why should it be cheaper here? You also forgot to add than our suits cost about 1.5x more than your suits because of equipment so our risk vs reward is a lot higher
Cyrille Fodeux Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:34:00 - [8] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Except for the Caldari suit. A logistic suit compared to a assault suit, even with that 1 extra slot we get, cannot get higher EHP than an assault suit because of the higher base EHP. The reason we have more CPU/PG is for equipment not for modules. I can build an assault with all proto modules, a proto weapon and a advanced equipment; I can also build a logistics suit with all proto modules, a advanced weapon and a mixture of advanced and proto equipment, even so I still have lower EHP than you, I am slower, and my weapon is weaker. Let-¦s do some math: The Gallente Proto Logi has 90+180 HP = 270 eHP The Gallente Proto Assault has 120+210 HP = 330 eHP The Logi has 5 Low Slots, the Assault 4: 270+5x115=845 + Speed Penalty 330+4x115=790 + Speed Penalty The Speed Penalties are almost the same. With Ferroscale Plates you get 570 for both. No matter what you choose you will have the same penalties and outcome but the logi will have more PG/CPU left.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 847	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:36:00 - [9] - Quote Cyrille Fodeux wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Except for the Caldari suit. A logistic suit compared to a assault suit, even with that 1 extra slot we get, cannot get higher EHP than an assault suit because of the higher base EHP. The reason we have more CPU/PG is for equipment not for modules. I can build an assault with all proto modules, a proto weapon and a advanced equipment; I can also build a logistics suit with all proto modules, a advanced weapon and a mixture of advanced and proto equipment, even so I still have lower EHP than you, I am slower, and my weapon is weaker. Let-¦s do some math: The Gallente Proto Logi has 90+180 HP = 270 eHP The Gallente Proto Assault has 120+210 HP = 330 eHP The Logi has 5 Low Slots, the Assault 4: 270+5x115=845 + Speed Penalty 330+4x115=790 + Speed Penalty The Speed Penalties are almost the same. With Ferroscale Plates you get 570 for both. No matter what you choose you will have the same penalties and outcome but the logi will have more PG/CPU left. And a slower overall speed, and a higher cost, and no sidearm. Logis are fine.
Cyrille Fodeux Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:38:00 - [10] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cyrille Fodeux wrote: Cosgar wrote: Play logi and you'll realize that giving up a sidearm is a huge deal. Also, Minmatar logi had the exact same slot layout but with more HP in chrome, how come nobody complained about logis then? You must be one of those people who thinks all logis are OP or something. And last but not least, most of the class suits are cheaper than the basic frames. lolCommando doesn't count. Chromosome doesn-¦t count here. There was just one Logi and the Assault was the Basic Frame. Nobody complained then because they had less PG/CPU then. They had to leave High/Low Slots empty to fill all Equipment Slots. The Class Suits, how you call them, should not be cheaper. If you edit something it costs. Why should it be cheaper here? You also forgot to add than our suits cost about 1.5x more than your suits because of equipment so our risk vs reward is a lot higher You forgot that you get a lot more WP with Equipment with little risk. If you stay with some Assaults you always supply, revive or repair them. This are much more WP than an Assault earns. if you come with guys that do over 5k WP and no death -> Cal. Logi
Den-tredje Baron ParagonX 154	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:47:00 - [11] - Quote Cyrille Fodeux wrote: It is ridiculous that a Support class Dropsuit gets so many High/Low Slots. They give up: 1 Sidearm Slot Some eHP For this two things they get 2-3 Equipment Slots 1-2 High/Low Slots More PG/CPU Better Scan Precision It would suit better if they would give up some High/Low Slots instead of the eHP. There should also be some other minor changes. So the Logi should have if compared to the basic suit: Less High/Low Slots No Sidearm More Equipment Slots More PG/CPU Higher Scan Radius (instead of Scan Precision) Also as a general for Specializations should they cost more than the Basic Dropsuit and not less! ....... Really again ?? Ok first of all shouldn't we start by looking at the assaults bonuses. They suck to say it teh least so what about giving them some actually good bonuses ?? Like changing gall assaults bonuses to something much better, changing the overall bonuses to something that'll suit all the assaults much better. Now with that done we can begin to look at logis or more precise ONE logi !! The caldari logi with it's bonus gets way way to strong and demolishes that line between logis and assaults. Give them something fitting a logistics person better and we'll see a change. Now talking about those extra slots. Have you considered that the logis are slower than assaults ?? doesn't have a sidearm (VERY BIG NOTE 1.2 made switching to secondary A LOT faster. Guess logis are gonna love that hmmmm ) and got a lower tank from base. So what do logis need those slots for ?? We need to buff our EHP up to a level where we don't die anymore and still make sure that we have enough CPU/PG to field equipment that can help ASSAULTS. SO before you scream NERF all over the forums try going in the other direction and scream BUFF ok ?? Buff assaults with better bonuses (and for crying out laud give gall assaults some more CPU/PG) Change caldari logis bonus and with above done lets get back to see how it's going.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:41:00 - [12] - Quote I agree. Logi suits should have a bigger downside to direct combat compared to the assault than the slightly lower movement speed and hp which is easily compensated for with the higher number of high and low power slots. Since I never use a side arm, I have no issue with it missing in logi suits. Medium suits in general have too many high and low power modules, however, IMO. This is why I prefer the medium suits over the light and heavy suit. They're better.
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:45:00 - [13] - Quote Yeah logis are fine, that's why everyone rolled one.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 564	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:50:00 - [14] - Quote Play a logi in PC, you get wrecked by decent players in assault suits. Trust me... they are pretty well balanced. You don't see 16 logis in PC matches for a reason... they aren't OP.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 848	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:53:00 - [15] - Quote Logis are not OP (Well, I think the Caldari Logi needs work) but overall they're fine. The problem is that Assaults are UP in that their bonuses are stupid in most cases and there is rarely a good reason to pick Assault over Logi.
I-Shayz-I ZionTCD 362	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:53:00 - [16] - Quote First of all, Logistics need high and low slots for using modules to keep them alive. Secondly, if you fit a logistics correctly you will end up sacrificing the weapon slot for better modules and equipment. Third, just because you use an Assault or Logi dropsuit, doesn't mean you have to do Assault or Logi things. A Logistics can run around and be a shield tank if they want to, and an Assault can run around with a repair tool and assist the squad. You can also be a heavy with a sniper, or a Scout fitted for AV Fourth, Logistics is not a support class. It simply means we are the most versatile class. A Minmatar logi can run around at 9 m/s with a shotgun, hacking modules, a scanner, and remote explosives if they want to. That same dropsuit can be used as an armor tank with a Scrambler Rifle and damage modules. The high slot count means we can fit more types of modules in those slots if we choose to, which gives us again more versatility. Fifth, if you really want more modules on your suit at higher levels, why not go into logistics to begin with? I really wanted to use the HMG on my logi but I'm not complaining about how none of the logistics have a heavy slot. Instead I skilled into heavies so I can use an HMG and defend an area when I want to, then switch to my logi if people are dying.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 379	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:06:00 - [17] - Quote Cyrille Fodeux wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Except for the Caldari suit. A logistic suit compared to a assault suit, even with that 1 extra slot we get, cannot get higher EHP than an assault suit because of the higher base EHP. The reason we have more CPU/PG is for equipment not for modules. I can build an assault with all proto modules, a proto weapon and a advanced equipment; I can also build a logistics suit with all proto modules, a advanced weapon and a mixture of advanced and proto equipment, even so I still have lower EHP than you, I am slower, and my weapon is weaker. Let-¦s do some math: The Gallente Proto Logi has 90+180 HP = 270 eHP The Gallente Proto Assault has 120+210 HP = 330 eHP The Logi has 5 Low Slots, the Assault 4: 270+5x115=845 + Speed Penalty 330+4x115=790 + Speed Penalty The Speed Penalties are almost the same. With Ferroscale Plates you get 570 for both. No matter what you choose you will have the same penalties and outcome but the logi will have more PG/CPU left. A logistics suit cant even stack 5 ferroscales. Also at top tier Logistic with 5 complex get 969, assault with 4 complex gets 919 thats only a 50 HP difference and the assault is still a faster suit. And your right no matter what I choose I will have the same penalties and outcome, with my extra CPU/PG either going wasted or to equipment so what is the problem? Is my equipment making me better than you now? So please explain, what do you suggest would be a fair "nerf", remove our equipment? Lower our damage? Lower our HP? Lower our PG/CPU? Might as well just remove the Logistics class and make every medium suit an assault suit. When we play Logistics it is easier for us to die, we cannot defend ourselves properly due to no side arm and low speed,so if we can take advantage of 1 extra slot to increase our survivability slightly higher, just 1 extra bullet since that is what 50 damage is 1 extra bullet, than a assault and in extension help you survive in battle and dish out damage why are you complaining you are obviously ignorant to the role we actually play in the game, I'm sure as hell most assaults run around with nano hives not uplinks, injectors, repair tools etc So what you want us to run around in 150-225K fittings with the survivability of a scout, or run around in 150-225K fittings and not being able to defend ourselves when the assaults run out into the field get slaughtered and we are left defenseless thats balance? Thats putting us in our proper role? Fine do it go ahead but give me a side arm and lower my fitting costs to 50-60K and I will gladly get my ass killed for you.
Den-tredje Baron ParagonX 154	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:15:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Logis are not OP (Well, I think the Caldari Logi needs work) but overall they're fine. The problem is that Assaults are UP in that their bonuses are stupid in most cases and there is rarely a good reason to pick Assault over Logi. So much sense in two small lines !! Ask for better bonuses for assaults before you start asking for nerfs to logi. Everything you do will have a cascade of downsides. Nerfing logi will hit heavies as logis won't be able to survive up in battle anymore so no quick reppies in between fights or during fights. Hitting logies will mean fewer uplinks and equipment all over being placed and that will hit YOU, the assault.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:33:00 - [19] - Quote You logi suit guys may not see it but this is how the heavy and scout suit players feel, unfortunately for them, their suits aren't as good as the logi. This crying about a possibly slight change CCP could do like remove a high of low module to the logi is like a slap in the face to scouts and heavies. The logi says, "CCP could downgrade my suit from being great to good!" The scout and heavy say "I wish CCP would upgrade my suit to being fair!"
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 382	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:41:00 - [20] - Quote Eno Raef wrote: You logi suit guys may not see it but this is how the heavy and scout suit players feel, unfortunately for them, their suits aren't as good as the logi. This crying about a possibly slight change CCP could do like remove a high of low module to the logi is like a slap in the face to scouts and heavies. The logi says, "CCP could downgrade my suit from being great to good!" The scout and heavy say "I wish CCP would upgrade my suit to being fair!" The Logi don't say that, the assaults who don't know the suit say that.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 849	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:51:00 - [21] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Eno Raef wrote: You logi suit guys may not see it but this is how the heavy and scout suit players feel, unfortunately for them, their suits aren't as good as the logi. This crying about a possibly slight change CCP could do like remove a high of low module to the logi is like a slap in the face to scouts and heavies. The logi says, "CCP could downgrade my suit from being great to good!" The scout and heavy say "I wish CCP would upgrade my suit to being fair!" The Logi don't say that, the assaults who don't know the suit say that. QFT
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 7	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:59:00 - [22] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Eno Raef wrote: You logi suit guys may not see it but this is how the heavy and scout suit players feel, unfortunately for them, their suits aren't as good as the logi. This crying about a possibly slight change CCP could do like remove a high of low module to the logi is like a slap in the face to scouts and heavies. The logi says, "CCP could downgrade my suit from being great to good!" The scout and heavy say "I wish CCP would upgrade my suit to being fair!" The Logi don't say that, the assaults who don't know the suit say that. It seems like the logis are more worried about a potential change in their suit than a change in assault suits.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 173	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:06:00 - [23] - Quote I most logi's agree that the only logi suit that has a problem is the Caldari, and the Assault suites need a buff. I don't care if I'm not the top killer, but I need to be able to take damage, and carry my equipment. The Gallente Logi is a prime example of a suite and bonuses that work well for a certain role. I swear if they nerf it, I will go ape ****.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 384	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:25:00 - [24] - Quote Eno Raef wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Eno Raef wrote: You logi suit guys may not see it but this is how the heavy and scout suit players feel, unfortunately for them, their suits aren't as good as the logi. This crying about a possibly slight change CCP could do like remove a high of low module to the logi is like a slap in the face to scouts and heavies. The logi says, "CCP could downgrade my suit from being great to good!" The scout and heavy say "I wish CCP would upgrade my suit to being fair!" The Logi don't say that, the assaults who don't know the suit say that. It seems like the logis are more worried about a potential change in their suit than a change in assault suits. I have suggested that all the assault needs a class bonus of 1-2% damage per level. The reason I am so worried is that CCP is so quick to listen to the bad nerfs (not the good ones like the armor threads) apply them then and completely ruin a feature that was never broken. Like the Mass driver, the nerfed it because the people in their office were using them a lot.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 627	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:27:00 - [25] - Quote Lol @ all the assault players talking about how their logi suit is fine.
TwoShots OneKill DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:59:00 - [26] - Quote I pretty sure that all logis apart from the amaar get 12 slots total, so if u make a change to the cal logi you would have to make change the other two. So you want to get rid of the only racial bonus that actually is worthwhile, i think everyone should put this effort into making ccp actually apply useful bonuses to the other suits. The reason why i run the cal logi on my alt is because I want to be shield tanked since I like to lonewolf from time to time, plus I have to have at least two equipment slots to run remotes and hives. Instead of nerfing the logi suits, maybe buff the racial bonues on the other suits and give the proto scouts and assault an extra equipment. But stop with the nerf bat.
Provolonee Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY 32	Posted - 2013.07.04 02:04:00 - [27] - Quote Have you tried swapping to that side arm? I would call that a buff. It's so quick.
EternalRMG ZionTCD 315	Posted - 2013.07.04 02:18:00 - [28] - Quote Cyrille Fodeux wrote: It is ridiculous that a Support class Dropsuit gets so many High/Low Slots. They give up: 1 Sidearm Slot Some eHP For this two things they get 2-3 Equipment Slots 1-2 High/Low Slots More PG/CPU Better Scan Precision It would suit better if they would give up some High/Low Slots instead of the eHP. There should also be some other minor changes. So the Logi should have if compared to the basic suit: Less High/Low Slots No Sidearm More Equipment Slots More PG/CPU Higher Scan Radius (instead of Scan Precision) Also as a general for Specializations should they cost more than the Basic Dropsuit and not less! Im very glad to tell you to go ** yourself :) but do it with love Logis are fine. If they can only carry a side arm they would be pretty much useless because guess what, to revive someoen who is downed i have to kill the guy who killed him first and to do that i need Firepower, Who would have thought of that ;right? 2-3 equimpent slots? Are you nuts? We are Logis, we are the combination of what engineers and medics are in otherr games, we need to carry Ammo, healing and revive tool at least 3 slots, and a 4th is just fine at proto level (for uplinks and ) No sidearm? you just said that we should only have a sidearm. Better Scan? I wouldnt mind, but thats the job of a scout not a medic Less module slots? ARE MAD? we need those slots to get a fitting , that can have decent HP and enough pg/cpu to hold decent equipment. it alsoe takes away diversity More PG/CPU Hell yeah, but the lack of CPU/PG can be "countered" by using cpu/pg modules in the extra slots we have More eHP? we have the extra modules for that; takes away diversity now for you and everyoneelse who complains about logis being OP LOGIS ARENT OP, THEYRE FINE, THE ONLY LOGIS THAT ARE UNBALANCES ARE THE CALDARI ONES BEACAUSE OF THEIR BONUS AND HIGH AMMOUNT OF HIGH SLOTS Gal. Logi : Good at carrying equipment and armor/rep/speed tanking Minm. Logi: Awesome at hacking and Good enough at all areas but not op Amarr. Logi : Never used it Cal. Logi: Good at shield tanking(bonus and high amount of high slots) good at armor tanking, good at using dmg modules, good at every ***** thing THAT IS THE MOTHERFUCKING PROBLEM
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 24	Posted - 2013.07.04 02:52:00 - [29] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Play logi and you'll realize that giving up a sidearm is a huge deal. Also, Minmatar logi had the exact same slot layout but with more HP in chrome, how come nobody complained about logis then? You must be one of those people who thinks all logis are OP or something. And last but not least, most of the class suits are cheaper than the basic frames. lolCommando doesn't count. because ppl could kill from half way across the map

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