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Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hiya,
So, shield energizers, at the proto level, give you a -6% base shield a 60% recharge rate increase. Seems OP, but don't forget a couple of things.
1 - This module is a high-slot module, so it does more than remove 6% of base shield... it removes a slot. In other words, it will most likely replace a Complex Shield Mod... meaning it will remove 6% of the base shield, PLUS the 66hp from the module that isn't fitted.
2 - Shield recharge rate isn't instantaneous. There are a several seconds after receiving damage before the recharge kicks in. Yes, this module means that the shield will recharge faster once the the recharge starts... however, as most engagements (1v1) are 3-5 second affairs, this won't have a major impact on these.
3 - While I have not yet been in game to check them out, I agree with the following: a) If the fitting requirements are too low, this is a problem. They should require as much CPU/PG as extenders. b) They need to be skill-based... so you should need level 5 in a skill to use the Proto modules... much like the extenders.
As a dedicated shield guy, let me tell you that it is the BUFFER, not the RECHARGE, that saves me in fights. I've tried dropping a shield extender in favor of an extra damage mod, and I can tell you that I die WAY faster... well before my shield recharge kicks in.
On the surface, these stats seem OP. We already know that CCP has another release planned for early August, and that they aren't against mid-cycle stat changes (see the TAC assault rifle for an example).... so how about everyone take a Valium and we'll see how this plays out. |
GeneralButtNaked
ZionTCD
486
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Part of the issue is that armor tankers get garbage modules while the shield guys at least get a viable one.
Add that in to the advantage shield tankers already have and that is why people are freaking out.
CCP should have responded to those big threads. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
886
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
I wonder it will help protect against sniper assists... as a quick duck, dodge and cover will avoid the next shot and you'll get back to CQC fighting form quicker. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
286
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Okay that was well presented and allayed some of my fears.....however after looking at new armour plate stats I'm inclined to say that no BUFFER is given to us and we already have lower EHP than Shields...... |
Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
198
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Part of the issue is that armor tankers get garbage modules while the shield guys at least get a viable one.
Well, in EVE, I am a dedicated armor tanker, so I am familiar with both sides of the divide.
But people mix both sides of the argument, and each should be reviewed based on their own merits.
Rather than provide armor buffer... why not give armor resists? If you could fit a damage control unit on a drop suit (i.e. 50% damage reduction), then that 250 armor becomes 500 *effective*... which is much better, no?
This will be a side-buff to armor repairers too... as each HP repped will actually be 1.5 points (in this example). Armor tankers also need a skill that not only increases armor repair rate (i.e. hp/second), but that increases raw hp repped (i.e. 1 point per level... much like the suit bonus).
... but don't QQ about shield because armor is *kitten*. QQ about armor being *kitten*, and make suggestions on how to fix armor. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
365
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Okay that was well presented and allayed some of my fears.....however after looking at new armour plate stats I'm inclined to say that no BUFFER is given to us and we already have lower EHP than Shields......
Now sure how you're figuring this one. Armor has, and has always had, higher HP pools than Shields.
Also, using the term Effective Hit Points requires you talk about the thing shooting at you. Against ARs and Scramblers, armor has significantly higher EHP. Against Locus 'nades, Flaylock, and Mass Drivers, it has much lower EHP.
I agree armor is at a disadvantage to shields, but lets say things that are actually true, peopleGǪ
(Yes, I am a stickler when it comes to talking about balance. You have to be. Or you end up with garbage.) |
Poplo Furuya
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Part of the issue is that armor tankers get garbage modules while the shield guys at least get a viable one.
Add that in to the advantage shield tankers already have and that is why people are freaking out.
CCP should have responded to those big threads. Also how it specifically plays into the hands of CalLogis. The shield reduction is to the base, their recharge is 20/s after 4s. Current bug means shield timer isn't getting reset by subsequent hits. Low fitting cost.
Now let's stick a regulator into a low slot. After slightly less than 3 seconds they're recovering 32hp/sec. Let's say it's 3 seconds secondsfor simplicity. 5 seconds after being hit they're up by 96hp. In 10 seconds, 256hp.
They'll have 4 slots left for Complex Extenders and the like. They'll still have pretty high buffer, just slightly less in exchange for incredibly good recovery. |
Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
198
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 14:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Okay that was well presented and allayed some of my fears.....however after looking at new armour plate stats I'm inclined to say that no BUFFER is given to us and we already have lower EHP than Shields......
Here's the solution then....
Step 1: Like in EVE - Add Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes... 20% base, 27.5% Advanced, 35% Proto resist bonus, across the board.
Step 2: Add an armor skill that increases the base armor repaired... in addition to the repair rate ("ticks per second").
Poof... tank-ability improved, buffer improved.... no plates required.
Thoughts? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
1525
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
The shield energizer isn't a game-changer. The statistics do indeed look good on paper, but it's not a massive thing. It does improve shield tanking somewhat though, which isn't that great imho. OP, +1 on a reasonable and intelligent post. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
1525
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Okay that was well presented and allayed some of my fears.....however after looking at new armour plate stats I'm inclined to say that no BUFFER is given to us and we already have lower EHP than Shields...... Here's the solution then.... Step 1: Like in EVE - Add Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes... 20% base, 27.5% Advanced, 35% Proto resist bonus, across the board. Step 2: Add an armor skill that increases the base armor repaired... in addition to the repair rate ("ticks per second"). Poof... tank-ability improved, buffer improved.... no plates required. Thoughts?
I don't think it's quite that simple. Nice try, though. |
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Medic 1879
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
523
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Complex energizer costs 0 PG!!! however it does cost a whopping 96 CPU!!!!! Holy dodgy numbers batman. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Generals EoN.
379
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Part of the issue is that armor tankers get garbage modules while the shield guys at least get a viable one.
Well, in EVE, I am a dedicated armor tanker, so I am familiar with both sides of the divide. But people mix both sides of the argument, and each should be reviewed based on their own merits. Rather than provide armor buffer... why not give armor resists? If you could fit a damage control unit on a drop suit (i.e. 50% damage reduction), then that 250 armor becomes 500 *effective*... which is much better, no? This will be a side-buff to armor repairers too... as each HP repped will actually be 1.5 points (in this example). Armor tankers also need a skill that not only increases armor repair rate (i.e. hp/second), but that increases raw hp repped (i.e. 1 point per level... much like the suit bonus). ... but don't QQ about shield because armor is *kitten*. QQ about armor being *kitten*, and make suggestions on how to fix armor.
Active dropsuit modules are confirmed as SOON(TM). |
MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:Hiya,
So, shield energizers, at the proto level, give you a -6% base shield a 60% recharge rate increase. Seems OP, but don't forget a couple of things.
1 - This module is a high-slot module, so it does more than remove 6% of base shield... it removes a slot. In other words, it will most likely replace a Complex Shield Mod... meaning it will remove 6% of the base shield, PLUS the 66hp from the module that isn't fitted.
2 - Shield recharge rate isn't instantaneous. There are a several seconds after receiving damage before the recharge kicks in. Yes, this module means that the shield will recharge faster once the the recharge starts... however, as most engagements (1v1) are 3-5 second affairs, this won't have a major impact on these.
3 - While I have not yet been in game to check them out, I agree with the following: a) If the fitting requirements are too low, this is a problem. They should require as much CPU/PG as extenders. b) They need to be skill-based... so you should need level 5 in a skill to use the Proto modules... much like the extenders.
As a dedicated shield guy, let me tell you that it is the BUFFER, not the RECHARGE, that saves me in fights. I've tried dropping a shield extender in favor of an extra damage mod, and I can tell you that I die WAY faster... well before my shield recharge kicks in.
On the surface, these stats seem OP. We already know that CCP has another release planned for early August, and that they aren't against mid-cycle stat changes (see the TAC assault rifle for an example).... so how about everyone take a Valium and we'll see how this plays out.
No offense but you are doing it wrong. Use regulators to drop the delay, drop one SE for one of these Rechargers and move cover to cover. Shield tanking is really that simple.
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Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
201
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: No offense but you are doing it wrong. Use regulators to drop the delay, drop one SE for one of these Rechargers and move cover to cover. Shield tanking is really that simple.
Shhhhh.... don't give it away!
There are merits to both approaches, though. Going with a buffer or with the recharge... depends on your playstyle. Also depends on the map. Some maps have way more cover than others.... on the more open maps, I would prefer a buffer, as cover may be too far away. |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1502
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:Hiya,
So, shield energizers, at the proto level, give you a -6% base shield a 60% recharge rate increase. Seems OP, but don't forget a couple of things.
1 - This module is a high-slot module, so it does more than remove 6% of base shield... it removes a slot. In other words, it will most likely replace a Complex Shield Mod... meaning it will remove 6% of the base shield, PLUS the 66hp from the module that isn't fitted.
2 - Shield recharge rate isn't instantaneous. There are a several seconds after receiving damage before the recharge kicks in. Yes, this module means that the shield will recharge faster once the the recharge starts... however, as most engagements (1v1) are 3-5 second affairs, this won't have a major impact on these.
3 - While I have not yet been in game to check them out, I agree with the following: a) If the fitting requirements are too low, this is a problem. They should require as much CPU/PG as extenders. b) They need to be skill-based... so you should need level 5 in a skill to use the Proto modules... much like the extenders.
As a dedicated shield guy, let me tell you that it is the BUFFER, not the RECHARGE, that saves me in fights. I've tried dropping a shield extender in favor of an extra damage mod, and I can tell you that I die WAY faster... well before my shield recharge kicks in.
On the surface, these stats seem OP. We already know that CCP has another release planned for early August, and that they aren't against mid-cycle stat changes (see the TAC assault rifle for an example).... so how about everyone take a Valium and we'll see how this plays out. 1. If it reduced 6% FROM ALL THE HP not just the base HP, I would be fine. On my gal logi suit, no matter how much shields I put on, it only removes 6 HP. 6!
2.Then move shield regulators from low slots. Then they will have to choose between recharge delay, recharge rate or HP, instead of having 2 out of 3. |
The Infected One
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
260
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:Hiya,
So, shield energizers, at the proto level, give you a -6% base shield a 60% recharge rate increase. Seems OP, but don't forget a couple of things.
1 - This module is a high-slot module, so it does more than remove 6% of base shield... it removes a slot. In other words, it will most likely replace a Complex Shield Mod... meaning it will remove 6% of the base shield, PLUS the 66hp from the module that isn't fitted.
2 - Shield recharge rate isn't instantaneous. There are a several seconds after receiving damage before the recharge kicks in. Yes, this module means that the shield will recharge faster once the the recharge starts... however, as most engagements (1v1) are 3-5 second affairs, this won't have a major impact on these.
3 - While I have not yet been in game to check them out, I agree with the following: a) If the fitting requirements are too low, this is a problem. They should require as much CPU/PG as extenders. b) They need to be skill-based... so you should need level 5 in a skill to use the Proto modules... much like the extenders.
As a dedicated shield guy, let me tell you that it is the BUFFER, not the RECHARGE, that saves me in fights. I've tried dropping a shield extender in favor of an extra damage mod, and I can tell you that I die WAY faster... well before my shield recharge kicks in.
On the surface, these stats seem OP. We already know that CCP has another release planned for early August, and that they aren't against mid-cycle stat changes (see the TAC assault rifle for an example).... so how about everyone take a Valium and we'll see how this plays out.
This mostly applies to the Caldari Proto suits. It's not JUST a recharge rate. My Caldari assault already regenerates shields at 31.5/pulse, with a single complex energizer (60%) it recharges at 50.4/pulse. Dropping one complex extender in place of this gives me 480 shields (6% base less, didn't do math on that, but its negligible) and 2 complex regulators letting my shields start recharging 2 sec after taking cover, I get my shields back after 9.5 pulses. At an average of 2 pulses/sec that's 4.7 sec from 1 shield remaining to full strength.
The buffer of the added extender only really helps against instant damage like snipers and explosives.
Even as an assault player with less shields than a CalLogi I can see that its broken. Sure you can flux me, but with the regulators its still only 5 sec before my shields start coming back. Its WAY faster than anything you can have for armor without a Logi repping you.
The Ferroscale plates should at least give 80 armor at complex level to even try to compete with this, and the reactive plates need a higher regen speed for the amount of armor they give and speed penalty. I'm dropping my recharger and adding an energizer tonight for sure, rechargers are useless now. |
Severance Pay
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
510
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Part of the issue is that armor tankers get garbage modules while the shield guys at least get a viable w one.
Add that in to the advantage shield tankers already have and that is why people are freaking out.
CCP should have responded to those big threads. CCP answers the balance issue by indirectly balancing with weapon bonuses against shields, flux grenades, plc, AR, laser, scr, scp, sniper rifles all do bonus to shields and sometimes reduced dmg to armor. And soon to come, plasma rifle, rail rifle, I heard heavy laser. There is your balance, basically 3/4 of the weapons in the game do more dmg to shields. But I enjoy your tears, I shall add them to my cereal tomorrow. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1083
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
The fact it has no skill reqs is worth a little QQ'ing I think. It basically gave all shield tankers access to proto rechargers without putting any SP into it. |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
296
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Severance Pay wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Part of the issue is that armor tankers get garbage modules while the shield guys at least get a viable w one.
Add that in to the advantage shield tankers already have and that is why people are freaking out.
CCP should have responded to those big threads. CCP answers the balance issue by indirectly balancing with weapon bonuses against shields, flux grenades, plc, AR, laser, scr, scp, sniper rifles all do bonus to shields and sometimes reduced dmg to armor. And soon to come, plasma rifle, rail rifle, I heard heavy laser. There is your balance, basically 3/4 of the weapons in the game do more dmg to shields. But I enjoy your tears, I shall add them to my cereal tomorrow.
looooool
oh man! that was great, so SR, flux, and lazers do bonus against shields, everything else either does both or is armor based damage, but anything that is armor based has a better damage multiplier than anything that hits shields up.
That is you arguement, that 3 weapons, one being a grenade. can hurt shields...
We don't have any issues with the new shield energizers, we're happy for you. We are annoyed that our 2 modules are absolute crap. I lose 171 armor to gain .65 rep, from 3.45-4, while having to pull 13 GP out my ass. so chill out, we're not calling for your new litle toys to be nerfed, were asking if we could have toys that arent 2nd hand, made from lead, painted with lead based paint and sold as "new".
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