The only possible justification for limited respecs after adding new content that i find actually usefull is "respec for racial symmetry" i.e the notion that any type of gear or niche should be represented in all four races and people should not be penalized for preferring a racial variant that is not yet available. For example, heavy users can opt in to relocate their heavy suit skills to another racial equivalent once it's released.

This should not apply to the release of completely new roles as all players can choose to specialize into that role at the same time, even if it's not their preferred racial variant. It does however apply to any role that gets a racial variant added so once you specced into amarr commando just as everyone else who wanted to play a commando you can have your amarr commando skills changed to your preferred racial variant once. This means that no one is excluded from playing that role from the second it's released and everyone can switch their SP into the preferred race after release so that in effect no one is really penalized in the long run.

So basically +1 even though i would be ok with no respecs aswell

No please because this game is never supposed to be ready; there is going to always be new stuff behing corner to keep us hooked.

Using the logic that 'if new content is being released everyone DESERVES a respec we would have neverending stream of respecs. Or people petitioning for them.


If you want to max out on day one the brand new suit that's gonna be released, you'd better save some SP. Or wait a bit longer, it isn't that bad. Really.

I said ONLY for the variants of existing stuff, NOT for things like MTACs, fighters, and other completely new types of items.

How do you feel about extending this to generally apply to missing racial symmetry, already existing or not. The way i see it we will have this discussion again whenever new content is released without all four racial variants in place.

Minmatar combat rifle and Caldari rail rifle
Gallente ion pistol and Caldari rail pistol
Gallente Minmatar and Amarr melee weapons
Gallente and Amarr heavy weapons
Minmatar Gallente and Caldari heavy dropsuits
Caldari and Amarr light dropsuits
Minmatar and Amarr LAVs
Minmatar and Amarr tanks
Minmatar and Amarr drophips

When all these are here, we should all have one last optional respec. Why? Without all the racial variants, we could not make informed choices of what we wanted from our characters since we didn't have the full set of basic options. It could be argued that we could have just never specialized and just waited, but its unreasonable to expect players to just militia gear a year or more into release, and thus sacrifice the ability to play competitively.

We don't need respecs like MTACs, fighters, and other non-basic stuff gets added

Example?

Caldari MTACs beeing released first, others following a few months later => three quarters of users demand a respec because they actually wanted to use a racial equivalent and moan about beeing forced to effectively retrain their current role.

Not that i support this kind of reasoning but it's already clear that this will happen whenever new content is not released with racial symmetry. I think we should account for this if we really have to go down the respec route. My first reply is pretty much identical to your proposal with the only difference beeing that it's designed to become a general rule instead of beeing limited to some point in time.

I would be ok if there were more respecs for stuff like that, but I personally don't think its needed.

To be quite honest i don't think any of this is needed as i'm on the "preserve SP, spec when released, done" side of the debate.

What i'm arguing is that if we were to allow respecs for "basic" things like heavies, ARs and others why not for "non-basic" stuff like MTACs? What's the difference between those two anyway, other than that one exists now but only partially and the other beeing released later but still only partially? MTACs and jets will be the primary role for many players just as HAVs wich you included into your list. They will face the same issues that current heavy, LAV, HAV, and DS users face now and for this reason i see no justification for treating them differently just because the one are released and the others aren't.

My proposal boils down to "Grace period for one limited respec from one racial equivalent to another whenever a new racial equivalent gets released".

That locks FOTM abuse right out of the door and gives a clear rules for whether an addition warrants a respec and why.

To be quite honest i don't think any of this is needed as i'm on the "preserve SP, spec when released, done" side of the debate.

What i'm arguing is that if we were to allow respecs for "basic" things like heavies, ARs and others why not for "non-basic" stuff like MTACs? What's the difference between those two anyway, other than that one exists now but only partially and the other beeing released later but still only partially? MTACs and jets will be the primary role for many players just as HAVs wich you included into your list. They will face the same issues that current heavy, LAV, HAV, and DS users face now and for this reason i see no justification for treating them differently just because the one are released and the others aren't.

My proposal boils down to "Grace period for one limited respec from one racial equivalent to another whenever a new racial equivalent gets released".

That locks FOTM abuse right out of the door and gives a clear rules for wether an addition warrants a respec and why.

I have a 2.5 million SP, and a 7.7 Million SP toon but cannot do anything with them until 1.2, even if 1.2 drops and no vehicles, or racial dropsuits come out I have then to spec into something I seriously don't want to with no prospective respect in the future.

relax. Make some mistakes.

Minmatar combat rifle and Caldari rail rifle
Gallente ion pistol and Caldari rail pistol
Gallente Minmatar and Amarr melee weapons
Gallente and Amarr heavy weapons
Minmatar Gallente and Caldari heavy dropsuits
Caldari and Amarr light dropsuits
Minmatar and Amarr LAVs
Minmatar and Amarr tanks
Minmatar and Amarr drophips

When all these are here, we should all have one last optional respec. Why? Without all the racial variants, we could not make informed choices of what we wanted from our characters since we didn't have the full set of basic options. It could be argued that we could have just never specialized and just waited, but its unreasonable to expect players to just militia gear a year or more into release, and thus sacrifice the ability to play competitively.

We don't need respecs like MTACs, fighters, and other non-basic stuff gets added

Well atm I have to specc into Amarr Assault.....cause well I have to crush Minmatar skulls in something!

How do you feel about extending this to generally apply to missing racial symmetry, already existing or not. The way i see it we will have this discussion again whenever new content is released without all four racial variants in place.

I have to crush amarr skulls with something and I chose to slice n dice them with the nova knives

I said ONLY for the variants of existing stuff, NOT for things like MTACs, fighters, and other completely new types of items.

EDIT: At fanfest they said all variants were said to be coming in the near future (6-12 months from Fanfest) so its not like respecs would be needed past 1 yr from now, assuming CCP stays true to their word.

You make a good point, though I don't see FOTM abuse as an issue since they generally will just get nerfed/balanced. I do like the partial respec idea.

Minmatar combat rifle and Caldari rail rifle
Gallente ion pistol and Caldari rail pistol
Gallente Minmatar and Amarr melee weapons
Gallente and Amarr heavy weapons
Minmatar Gallente and Caldari heavy dropsuits
Caldari and Amarr light dropsuits
Minmatar and Amarr LAVs
Minmatar and Amarr tanks
Minmatar and Amarr drophips

When all these are here, we should all have one last optional respec. Why? Without all the racial variants, we could not make informed choices of what we wanted from our characters since we didn't have the full set of basic options. It could be argued that we could have just never specialized and just waited, but its unreasonable to expect players to just militia gear a year or more into release, and thus sacrifice the ability to play competitively.

We don't need respecs like MTACs, fighters, and other non-basic stuff gets added

Only for the respec because I know its going to be tricky for CCP to pull off giving optional refunds in the respective skills to allow switching to your racial variant.

If I'm wrong and that isnt a technical hurdle, I would prefer that.

Really hoping we get some of the racial stuff in 1.3 and all in by end of the year. Then we can bury this respec talk for good.

Minmatar combat rifle and Caldari rail rifle
Gallente ion pistol and Caldari rail pistol
Gallente Minmatar and Amarr melee weapons
Gallente and Amarr heavy weapons
Minmatar Gallente and Caldari heavy dropsuits
Caldari and Amarr light dropsuits
Minmatar and Amarr LAVs
Minmatar and Amarr tanks
Minmatar and Amarr drophips

When all these are here, we should all have one last optional respec. Why? Without all the racial variants, we could not make informed choices of what we wanted from our characters since we didn't have the full set of basic options. It could be argued that we could have just never specialized and just waited, but its unreasonable to expect players to just militia gear a year or more into release, and thus sacrifice the ability to play competitively.

We don't need respecs like MTACs, fighters, and other non-basic stuff gets added