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Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
368
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
There are only two forms of Assault weapons. The Gallente and the Amarr. What about the Caldari and the Minmatar?
There is only one heavy suit.
There are only two light suits.
Several types of modules are obviously missing. For example, engineering only has PG reducers. There obviously HAS to be something else that will come in the future.
They announce new suits: Pilot and Commando. But no one knows when they will be released, until after the respec.
There are only a few things that are high-powered modules. Most of the variety and interesting stuff is low powered. That also leads to the question: what could be coming in the future?
Jet Fighters.
Heavy Transport Vehicles.
Gunships.
And there are plenty of other holes.
My point is not to simply say that there are holes that need filling (haha, very funny) but that it is a bit silly to leave CRITICAL places empty, and then expect us to skill into the alternates, only to release the real deal several months down the road.
Weapons and modules, fine, not too pricey. But the SP required to go PRO in a dropsuit or vehicle is insane! Thus, i propose that when the final CORE vehicles, CORE modules, CORE weapons, and CORE suits are released, THEN we get out final respec.
Because c'mon, imagine the heavies who decide that the new suits are far better than the Amarr one. They already spent millions on the Amarr suit. Now what? Or myself: I always take the fighter pilot role in games. But I hate dropships. So instead I go assault. And yet, in the future, the Fighter will be released as well as the Pilot suit. And what can I do then?
Same goes for modules and weapons.
I understand that some things are asthetic and/or flashy items of fun. Like the shield energizer. That sounds like a cool upgrade, but not essential. But some of this unreleased gear is!
Final proposal: When the core of the game is finishes, give us one FINAL respec. It will be fair, and it will make sense.
PS. Core includes the mechanics of the game as well. Some things need fixing, haha.
Thanks for reading! |
Skipper Jones
Red Star. EoN.
175
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've been saying this for a while now. It's only fair for the people who didn't get their heavy/scout/vehicle released and were forced to skill into something else. |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
182
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, and UNTIL everything has been released, there should be no more respecs |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4118
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
We'll be getting more respec's, it's inevitable. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
370
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Doyle Reese wrote:Yes, and UNTIL everything has been released, there should be no more respecs Agreed thoroughly. But they shouldn't stretch these updates as far apart. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
370
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:We'll be getting more respec's, it's inevitable.
INCONCEIVABLE |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
463
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 18:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doyle Reese wrote:Yes, and UNTIL everything has been released, there should be no more respecs
I am patently anti respec for whatever reasons so i would be absolutely fine if this never sees the light but this proposal is my take on finding a viable middleground in this debate based on the real issue highlighted in this OP.
The problem is there is no "everything" in terms of content in an evolving game and the definition of "core" is equally vague. More content will be added throughout the game's lifespan. We will get new suits, vehicles and weapons, each with their own skillsets not just in the next 6-12 months but in five years aswell (for as long as dust exists, really) so "everything" will mean something different every 6 months and some of these additions will become such a fundamental part of the battlefield once they arrive so we would consider them "core" today if only we knew about them already.
The only possible justification for limited respecs after adding new content that i find actually usefull is "respec for racial symmetry" i.e the notion that any type of gear or niche should be represented in all four races and people should not be penalized for preferring a racial variant that is not yet available. For example, heavy users can opt in to relocate their heavy suit skills to another racial equivalent once it's released.
This should not apply to the release of completely new roles as all players can choose to specialize into that role at the same time, even if it's not their preferred racial variant. It does however apply to any role that gets a racial variant added so once you specced into amarr commando just as everyone else who wanted to play a commando you can have your amarr commando skills changed to your preferred racial variant once. This means that no one is excluded from playing that role from the second it's released and everyone can switch their SP into the preferred race after release so that in effect no one is really penalized in the long run.
The difference to saying "core" stuff is that this always only applies to partially existing roles where some players are able to specialize into their preferred race sooner than others and don't have to to invest the same SP for the same playstile twice. |
DEVILJIN 49
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 23:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this.........
Planetside 2
Coming to PS4 this year
|
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
370
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 17:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Doyle Reese wrote:Yes, and UNTIL everything has been released, there should be no more respecs I am patently anti respec for whatever reasons so i would be absolutely fine if this never sees the light but this proposal is my take on finding a viable middleground in this debate based on the real issue highlighted in this OP. The problem is there is no "everything" in terms of content in an evolving game and the definition of "core" is equally vague. More content will be added throughout the game's lifespan. We will get new suits, vehicles and weapons, each with their own skillsets not just in the next 6-12 months but in five years aswell (for as long as dust exists, really) so "everything" will mean something different every 6 months and some of these additions will become such a fundamental part of the battlefield once they arrive so we would consider them "core" today if only we knew about them already. The only possible justification for limited respecs after adding new content that i find actually usefull is "respec for racial symmetry" i.e the notion that any type of gear or niche should be represented in all four races and people should not be penalized for preferring a racial variant that is not yet available. For example, heavy users can opt in to relocate their heavy suit skills to another racial equivalent once it's released. This should not apply to the release of completely new roles as all players can choose to specialize into that role at the same time, even if it's not their preferred racial variant. It does however apply to any role that gets a racial variant added so once you specced into amarr commando just as everyone else who wanted to play a commando you can have your amarr commando skills changed to your preferred racial variant once. This means that no one is excluded from playing that role from the second it's released and everyone can switch their SP into the preferred race after release so that in effect no one is really penalized in the long run. The difference to saying "core" stuff is that this always only applies to partially existing roles where some players are able to specialize into their preferred race sooner than others and don't have to to invest the same SP for the same playstile twice.
This could also work, in my opinion. I was originally thinking this, but then I thought to expand to some unreleased features that are still non-released totally with no variants existing at the moment.
In terms of suits, that would be great. Because to be fully honest, I'm sure we would all get sick of having just one suit we use most of the time, but we would all be far more sick of spending another 3 million SP to get something new, especially if it is of the same class! With weapons, I would say no. Once you spent it, no re-allocating it. Weapons are not too expensive and it would prevent people from flocking to the next best thing. Modules.....those can get expensive....
BUT that was a tangent. To YOUR point, It is valid. Especially what you said about new vs. partially existing.
The only problem is that, say you switch to another racial variant of the same class, suddenly your entire plan of modules and equipments and such might be thrown off and you may need to re-do quite a bit of your skill points to get back on track. Switching races will change the entire playstyle and fitting, hence affecting more than only part of your skill allocation. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
548
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 17:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rayan Storm wrote:I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
Every time CCP adds a new ship to Eve they should give Eve pilots a RESPEC as well.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This often isn't the correct answer, but in this particular scenario:
Harden The **** Up
Whenever new gear is released, everyone in the game is at the same level with respect to the new gear. That's to say: 0SP invested.
The mentality behind giving out frequent RESPEC's is one for people who can't stand the fact that they've made decisions that they no longer like. That's not the way of Dust. You make the decision to skill into something, and that decision matters. You have the information that new skills and gear might release later on. If you're really concerned about getting into new gear as fast as possible, save your skill points until the new gear releases.
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Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
370
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 17:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Rayan Storm wrote:I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
Every time CCP adds a new ship to Eve they should give Eve pilots a RESPEC as well. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This often isn't the correct answer, but in this particular scenario: Harden The **** Up Whenever new gear is released, everyone in the game is at the same level with respect to the new gear. That's to say: 0SP invested. The mentality behind giving out frequent RESPEC's is one for people who can't stand the fact that they've made decisions that they no longer like. That's not the way of Dust. You make the decision to skill into something, and that decision matters. You have the information that new skills and gear might release later on. If you're really concerned about getting into new gear as fast as possible, save your skill points until the new gear releases.
With all due respect, did you not read the updated proposal? One respec, granted ONLY when all the UNFILLED areas are FINALLY filled. Not FREQUENT respecs whenever NEW gear comes out.
For crying out loud, read the actual thing man.
I used my SP. I made my choices. And I'm happy. But I am not happy that there are unfilled CRITICAL areas that CCP expects us to skill into after them not being available for a whole year. Heavies are the prime example of this.
It is all above. Read before jumping to silly conclusions.
|
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
854
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 17:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Unreleased gear is OP!!! |
Knight SoIaire
Rent-A-Murder Taxi
943
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 17:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Rayan Storm wrote:I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
Every time CCP adds a new ship to Eve they should give Eve pilots a RESPEC as well. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This often isn't the correct answer, but in this particular scenario: Harden The **** Up Whenever new gear is released, everyone in the game is at the same level with respect to the new gear. That's to say: 0SP invested. The mentality behind giving out frequent RESPEC's is one for people who can't stand the fact that they've made decisions that they no longer like. That's not the way of Dust. You make the decision to skill into something, and that decision matters. You have the information that new skills and gear might release later on. If you're really concerned about getting into new gear as fast as possible, save your skill points until the new gear releases.
I'm sorry. What game are we playing? What platform are we playing it on?
The thing is about EVE, their is a racial variant for almost everything, if not everything in the game. Most of the modules and weapon types are there and working and will most likely never change.
Where as here in DUST (Yes, thats the game we're playing, shocking, right?) we still haven't even gotten simple placeholders for the other racial variants, Gallente, Caldari, Mimatar Heavy / Amarr, Caldari Scout / Minmatar, Amarr Vehicles, and of course, we're in a Beta, no matter what CCP says, weapons still require balancing, changing .etc, and its not my fault if CCP one day decides that Armour HAVs need nerfing (Just an example), I couldn't look into the future and tell myself;
"Okay, this and this will get nerfed, better not spec into it"
Okay, I do agree, when new content (Jets, new dropsuit roles) get added, there should be no respecs, but we should still have a respec system. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
548
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 17:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rayan Storm wrote:Leither Yiltron wrote:Rayan Storm wrote:I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
Every time CCP adds a new ship to Eve they should give Eve pilots a RESPEC as well. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This often isn't the correct answer, but in this particular scenario: Harden The **** Up Whenever new gear is released, everyone in the game is at the same level with respect to the new gear. That's to say: 0SP invested. The mentality behind giving out frequent RESPEC's is one for people who can't stand the fact that they've made decisions that they no longer like. That's not the way of Dust. You make the decision to skill into something, and that decision matters. You have the information that new skills and gear might release later on. If you're really concerned about getting into new gear as fast as possible, save your skill points until the new gear releases. With all due respect, did you not read the updated proposal? One respec, granted ONLY when all the UNFILLED areas are FINALLY filled. Not FREQUENT respecs whenever NEW gear comes out. For crying out loud, read the actual thing man. I used my SP. I made my choices. And I'm happy. But I am not happy that there are unfilled CRITICAL areas that CCP expects us to skill into after them not being available for a whole year. Heavies are the prime example of this. It is all above. Read before jumping to silly conclusions.
Yes, I did. |
Twomanchew
Goose Bite
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nice to see more people saying the same thing I have been saying for wile. One last respec after core is done. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
394
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amarr HAVs and Minnie Turrets will be sex.
Literally sex. |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
252
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you want to skill into something you have no knowledge of when or how it will be, hold onto your SP......well thought through plan |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2026
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 19:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Rayan Storm wrote:I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
Every time CCP adds a new ship to Eve they should give Eve pilots a RESPEC as well. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This often isn't the correct answer, but in this particular scenario: Harden The **** Up Whenever new gear is released, everyone in the game is at the same level with respect to the new gear. That's to say: 0SP invested. The mentality behind giving out frequent RESPEC's is one for people who can't stand the fact that they've made decisions that they no longer like. That's not the way of Dust. You make the decision to skill into something, and that decision matters. You have the information that new skills and gear might release later on. If you're really concerned about getting into new gear as fast as possible, save your skill points until the new gear releases.
While it would be "new" content, that's not why there should be a respec, there should be a respec because that content should have been hereon release. Okay, maybe not jets, but the suits and the already existing vehichles? They should have been in the game on the release.
Instead CCP chose to go with clever(not really) release date |
VinceVon
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this.........
Planetside 2
Coming to PS4 this year
|
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
100
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:If you want to skill into something you have no knowledge of when or how it will be, hold onto your SP......well thought through plan supposed to roll militia heavy (want minmatar or galente heavy) and forge guns (no militia level hmg and no other Heavy AI guns) for a whole year...makes sense |
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Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
379
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 01:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
KOBLAKA1 wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:If you want to skill into something you have no knowledge of when or how it will be, hold onto your SP......well thought through plan supposed to roll militia heavy (want minmatar or galente heavy) and forge guns (no militia level hmg and no other Heavy AI guns) for a whole year...makes sense
Exactly my point. Its bloody annoying, thank ye very much. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
379
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 01:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Knight SoIaire wrote:Leither Yiltron wrote:Rayan Storm wrote:I don't see the point of giving out respecs at one point and saying "No More! Ever!" and then leaving a bunch of areas unfilled.
Every time CCP adds a new ship to Eve they should give Eve pilots a RESPEC as well. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This often isn't the correct answer, but in this particular scenario: Harden The **** Up Whenever new gear is released, everyone in the game is at the same level with respect to the new gear. That's to say: 0SP invested. The mentality behind giving out frequent RESPEC's is one for people who can't stand the fact that they've made decisions that they no longer like. That's not the way of Dust. You make the decision to skill into something, and that decision matters. You have the information that new skills and gear might release later on. If you're really concerned about getting into new gear as fast as possible, save your skill points until the new gear releases. I'm sorry. What game are we playing? What platform are we playing it on? The thing is about EVE, their is a racial variant for almost everything, if not everything in the game. Most of the modules and weapon types are there and working and will most likely never change. Where as here in DUST (Yes, thats the game we're playing, shocking, right?) we still haven't even gotten simple placeholders for the other racial variants, Gallente, Caldari, Mimatar Heavy / Amarr, Caldari Scout / Minmatar, Amarr Vehicles, and of course, we're in a Beta, no matter what CCP says, weapons still require balancing, changing .etc, and its not my fault if CCP one day decides that Armour HAVs need nerfing (Just an example), I couldn't look into the future and tell myself; "Okay, this and this will get nerfed, better not spec into it" Okay, I do agree, when new content (Jets, new dropsuit roles) get added, there should be no respecs, but we should still have a respec system.
My thoughts exactly! |
Kane Fyea
DUST University Ivy League
460
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 01:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP will very likely give partial respecs just like they do in EVE. Meaning when they release other heavy suits you'll be reimbursed the SP that you used on Amarr heavy. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
379
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 02:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:CCP will very likely give partial respecs just like they do in EVE. Meaning when they release other heavy suits you'll be reimbursed the SP that you used on Amarr heavy.
I didnt know they did that. Fascinating. Thanks! |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
254
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 03:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rayan Storm wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:If you want to skill into something you have no knowledge of when or how it will be, hold onto your SP......well thought through plan supposed to roll militia heavy (want minmatar or galente heavy) and forge guns (no militia level hmg and no other Heavy AI guns) for a whole year...makes sense Exactly my point. Its bloody annoying, thank ye very much.
was my point also...... I used the lowest form of wit though. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD
384
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 00:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
bUmP |
TheWee BabySeamus
Dem Durrty Boyz
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 01:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
As a heavy, who is apparently the bastard child of DUST (even though it is the only suit shown in the original trailer upon entering the game), being forced to skill into a useless heavy suit is pointless, people say save your skill points....................................for what, so that I can run around in in militia gear for another 6-12 months and not even be a competitive factor in PC or any other game, not thanks. CCP will most likely give us a final respect when they release the rest of the suits and weapons (and tbh they should wait and release them all at the same time.)
If they do not plan on giving respecs when they do finally release the rest of the suits/weapons...........................well then you can find me with the rest of the underappreciated heavies and scouts tearing CCP apart for being so "generous" to the assault/logi players. Either way I'm 99% sure we will get 1 more respect.
I for one am against multiple respecs for the record. That would kill the game and force CCP to spend useless time nerfing and buffing everything because people will just run with the "flavor of the month" . You need to specialize.............but its hard to specialize when you anly have 1 basic suit and 1 laughable racial suit, its like having millions of dollars in your bank account, driving by a Ferrari dealership, and being forced to buy a GEO TRACKER from said dealership.
On that note............................Hurry up CCP...................ME WANT GATLIN LASER
-Wee Baby |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc
590
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 01:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
No!
No more respecs, we knew we were getting pilot suits since at least the beginning of Beta. CCP will always add new suits, they can't give out a respec every time they do.
No more. |
We are 138
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
61
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 01:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hows this for a thought. You know new things are coming up in the game, why not show some self control and save some SP. I sit on about 1 mil SP all the time never spend it because when they put something out it gives me the flexibility to do what I want to if they put out any thing worth the points. In the up coming MONTHS just save about 10 %. I play fairly regularly and in 4 months I racked up 12 mil SP, so in four more months I should have around 24-25 mil that sounds like it will be plenty.
TL;DR save a portion of your SP dummy |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN.
205
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 02:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
We are 138 wrote:Hows this for a thought. You know new things are coming up in the game, why not show some self control and save some SP. I sit on about 1 mil SP all the time never spend it because when they put something out it gives me the flexibility to do what I want to if they put out any thing worth the points. In the up coming MONTHS just save about 10 %. I play fairly regularly and in 4 months I racked up 12 mil SP, so in four more months I should have around 24-25 mil that sounds like it will be plenty.
TL;DR save a portion of your SP dummy
Let me guess you skilled a medium frame?
We're not asking for a full respec of all skills. Simply the ability to reallocate SP spent on Ammar Heavy.
While it's true that if Caldari Heavy/Sentinel were available I would have went in a very different direction with module skills, potentially 2-3mill SP different, I can deal with that as those options are clearly before me. Whereas if I want to be marginally successful as a heavy I MUST skill Ammar Heavy or Sentinel.
I really do not understand how anyone could be opposed to this simple request. |
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