Fix AV nades and make FG's less damaging but fire faster too

As a full blooded tanker, there is no need to remove proto AV.

It is not OP, it is not even unfair to tankers.

An RPG-7 costs a heck of a lot less than a MBT, but can destroy it quite easily.

It is not terribly difficult to be an efficient tanker, especially in pubs.

In PC battles it gets difficult if you let the enemy take the high ground, but a single good sniper can prevent that, so it is in fact quite even. If your team has no snipers, then you are forced to be defensive, no big surprise there.

Ultimately, if you can't deal with proto AV, you are not a real tanker, just someone who wants to get big stats with little risk.

If we remove ADV and PRO AV, then we have to nerf the **** out of all lavs because it is hard for even the best AV, or tanks for that matter, to kill them with the best weapons. LLAVs ARE PROTO.

Arms have gone down to enemy action in Iraq, just to let you know.


Aside from that, tanking is not an elitist club. I am not that good, I run tanks 100% of the time and I turn a profit.

Most of the tanks I see go down are to driver error. Charging into fire, hanging around objectives like they wont get popped. Absolutely ridiculous antics from people who seem to think you can take limitless damage.

I have a fully specced Maddy, and I know how much damage I can take. One proto AV I can get away from, two and I might be in trouble, three and I'm done.

I don't see the problem. Proto AV is strong, but we only have standard tanks.

thats just how I feel all assaults want to 1-swarm a tank with mlt swarms, and btw the Charybdis is the only OP LLAV POSSIBLY I feel their fairly balanced (I gt a armor LLAV) and i'm constantly killed by mlt swarms or hacked av nades.
(btw I only gt mlt mods and have yet to see a well-fit armor LLAV thats the main reason I fel the shield LLAVs are the only ones possibly OP)

As a full blooded tanker, there is no need to remove proto AV.

It is not OP, it is not even unfair to tankers.

An RPG-7 costs a heck of a lot less than a MBT, but can destroy it quite easily.

It is not terribly difficult to be an efficient tanker, especially in pubs.

In PC battles it gets difficult if you let the enemy take the high ground, but a single good sniper can prevent that, so it is in fact quite even. If your team has no snipers, then you are forced to be defensive, no big surprise there.

Ultimately, if you can't deal with proto AV, you are not a real tanker, just someone who wants to get big stats with little risk.

your ********... Real world tanks are not as easy to destroy, first of all they shoot 1 hit 1 klll 50 cal bullets from the 2 top gunner seats, they have thermal cameras, they can hit a plastic plate from two miles away while going at 50 mph. Also one missile destroys everything within 10 meter blast radius. Also if you dont hit the sweet spot on the tank you wont do ****, the tanks are camouflaged for their environments and are quite hard to see from a distance, Also tankers are trained not to go into rural areas or areas where enemy has cover.

As an AV guy I can agree to this. Even though my role is to blow your tanks up I have to be right with you in fighting for balance. If tanks suck then there will be no more tankers and I will have nothing left to destroy besides LAVs, which aren't as satisfying to kill. I have no problem not having the chance to use proto swarms or AV grenades (don't have proto swarms anyway since uprising) because ADV level AV is usually sufficient.

As a full blooded tanker, there is no need to remove proto AV.

It is not OP, it is not even unfair to tankers.

An RPG-7 costs a heck of a lot less than a MBT, but can destroy it quite easily.

It is not terribly difficult to be an efficient tanker, especially in pubs.

In PC battles it gets difficult if you let the enemy take the high ground, but a single good sniper can prevent that, so it is in fact quite even. If your team has no snipers, then you are forced to be defensive, no big surprise there.

Ultimately, if you can't deal with proto AV, you are not a real tanker, just someone who wants to get big stats with little risk.

I don't know about removing proto AV yet but I do agree I'd rather see AV take a hit than to have no more tanks to shoot because it really is so much fun.

As players get more and more SP and start to diversify I see a real issue between AV and vehicles. 2 proto swarmers can hit armor tanks for something 6,500 damage per shot and the only extra skill they'll need to train is the swarm launcher skill.
And 2 proto forge gunners that are paying attention can knock RDV's out of the sky before they can even drop the vehicle.

Once you get away from randoms in pub matches with militia swarms it becomes obvious there's going to be a huge disparity between them and tanks might go largely extinct. Last build when we had marauders they could never survive our AV if I was with the my usual crew unless the tank could exploit horrible map design or had sufficient support on the ground to counter us and keep us from getting in to a good position and even then if only one bluedot had pulled out some high level AV gear that multi-million ISK tank was was dead. There was a lot more balance before this last nerf but even then high level AV had the advantage.

As much as I hate to say it the only solution might be some kind or restrictions on certain pub matches because at the rate we're going tanks are going to be good for nothing but pubstomping which will only lead to more whining.

Real tanks can be very easy to destroy if they don't have any support

I run proto-AV sometimes, but to be honest, it gets way too expensive. I see a tank drop in, I run to get my Ishukune out, and if the tank is already destroyed or on the other side of the map, I've just wasted a ton of ISK (admittedly much less than a tank costs). Even with the proto-AV, it takes a few shots to kill many tanks. Often they can get out of the way and start repping themselves.

Don't let the FG gunners get behind you. Shots to the back of your tank do WAY more damage than to the front. Also, don't run a railgun tank into the middle of a city - even with the heavy it isn't hard to straffe out of way of your shots. Also, get some ground support :)

So we either need prto/adv tanks or we need to lose proto/adv AV, because right now, just basing things on the ISK balance, std av vs std havs is pretty balanced. 2-3 std AV guys will take out the vast majority of tanks. The great tankers will take up to 5, though, so that's where this perception of tanks being OP comes from- but dont AR's do the same thing bc theyre good players!? CCP shouldnt punish an entire group of people for 5% of them being too good at what they do. Look at what happens: they nerfed tanks and we were mad for awhile, but we adapted with new fits and tactics and those of us with real talent are still owning pub matches in these gimped tanks, so likely, another nerf is on the way until it is literally impossible to make a non-rail tank survive a pub because infantry hate us and will always hate us until they dont have to deal with us anymore and that requires completely new kinds of maps

Arms have gone down to enemy action in Iraq, just to let you know.


Aside from that, tanking is not an elitist club. I am not that good, I run tanks 100% of the time and I turn a profit.

Most of the tanks I see go down are to driver error. Charging into fire, hanging around objectives like they wont get popped. Absolutely ridiculous antics from people who seem to think you can take limitless damage.

I have a fully specced Maddy, and I know how much damage I can take. One proto AV I can get away from, two and I might be in trouble, three and I'm done.

I don't see the problem. Proto AV is strong, but we only have standard tanks.

Funny you say that. You should ask the Taliban how killing tanks is going for them, even in urban environments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtDHH8B29Bc

As a Proto Swarm Launcher user I have to say... that actual makes some sense. Granted the LLAV is a proto level LAV, but I canGÇÖt seem to kill one with my Proto Swarm Launcher anyway, so whatGÇÖs the difference?

I will agree with this once LLAVs cant take 3-4 of my proto swarms with prof at 3 + 3 dmg mods.

So we either need prto/adv tanks or we need to lose proto/adv AV, because right now, just basing things on the ISK balance, std av vs std havs is pretty balanced. 2-3 std AV guys will take out the vast majority of tanks. The great tankers will take up to 5, though, so that's where this perception of tanks being OP comes from- but dont AR's do the same thing bc theyre good players!? CCP shouldnt punish an entire group of people for 5% of them being too good at what they do. Look at what happens: they nerfed tanks and we were mad for awhile, but we adapted with new fits and tactics and those of us with real talent are still owning pub matches in these gimped tanks, so likely, another nerf is on the way until it is literally impossible to make a non-rail tank survive a pub because infantry hate us and will always hate us until they dont have to deal with us anymore and that requires completely new kinds of maps

Funny you say that. You should ask the Taliban how killing tanks is going for them, even in urban environments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtDHH8B29Bc

I'd hardly say that untrained civs running around in gowns and flip-flops carrying 60 year old rifles can stand up against US main battle tanks with ground and air support. I'm talking modern militaries here - not exactly on par with US tech, but somewhat close. Give them an anti-tank rifle, or a javalin, and it'll be a different story.

EDIT: I saw this and thought of you :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=CqYiwao_WTg&feature=fvwp
Check out around 1:27 lol.

As a Proto Swarm Launcher user I have to say... that actual makes some sense. Granted the LLAV is a proto level LAV, but I canGÇÖt seem to kill one with my Proto Swarm Launcher anyway, so whatGÇÖs the difference?

LLAVs are standard, tech 2 LAVs.

non-pilots don't ******* get it...... they just don't......


Peace, Godin