DUST Search - WOWOW Mass Drivers seriously?

Fox Gaden wrote:

zBroadway wrote:

I feel bad for the OP..that scenario definitely sucks. But my empathy for you and all MD/Flaylock users only goes so far.

This is just my personal opinion and is not directed towards any particular player who chooses to use these weapons, its your ps3 and you can play which ever way you choose. I grew up playing shooters, the original Socom for ps2 was my first online shooter..and definitely left an impact on how I view shooters and the way they're played. Yes there were grenade launchers in the socom series (somewhat comparable to MD's..not as many grenades in a clip) but only noobs used them. Not saying you guys are noobs! A players skill was determined in gunfights. Anyone can use a grenade launcher and get a kill in that game..its not difficult to aim in someones general direction and launch a grenade at their feet to get the kill. And i kind of view MD/Flaylocks the same way on this game as well. Sure I could use them too...i choose not to because im playing a First person shooter...not a First person grenade launcher. I personally dont find it the least bit gratifying to spam somebody with projectile grenades and kill them. Id much rather get in a gunfight with somebody and win it because my aim is better..that's what does it for me.

No matter how many times i get killed by the flaylock or MD...ill never use it. To me, there's just something so unethical about playing with one in a FPS or any shooter. Perhaps its because ive played on a competitive level in all shooters ive played over the years..and the use of any kind of grenade other than those you threw with your hand was frowned upon.

Again, just my opinion...if you enjoy using MD/Flaylock..rock on. I just think its a cheap way of killing somebody.

You are judging the MD by the Grenade Launchers you knew from other games. The proverbial Noob Tub argument. This is common among players with experience in other FPS games, who have never bothered to use the MD themselves in DUST 514.

Even in the Open Beta when the MD was more powerful and did not have this bug, it was harder to kill someone with a MD than it was to kill them with an Assault Rifle. With the AR you just point and shoot. With the MD you have to do a trigonometry equation in your head to figure out how much to elevate your shot to get the charge to land anywhere close to your target, unless you where close up, in which case the challenge was to kill your opponent without killing yourself.

Any noob can pick up an Assault Riffle, point it at someone and pull the tricker to get a kill. Getting the kill with a Mass Driver is much more complicated than that. Of course people who used it a lot eventually got a feel for it and became very good at estimating the arch of the shells, but that still sort of invalidates your argument that it is easy, when it is only easy for the experts. Granted some people used it situationally from elevated positions to make the math less complicated, but there are situations where aiming an AR can be made less complicated as well.

From my experiences, the mass driver is the most difficult to use of any weapon I have used in DUST. I will grant you that you can sometimes kill multiple people in one shot if they all cluster together and you make the shot, but with a MD you normally just get a lot of assists without a lot of kills. It is meant to be an area denial weapon, and once this bug is fixed it will work well for that.


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zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 19	Posted - 2013.06.24 17:26:00 - [1] - Quote I feel bad for the OP..that scenario definitely sucks. But my empathy for you and all MD/Flaylock users only goes so far. This is just my personal opinion and is not directed towards any particular player who chooses to use these weapons, its your ps3 and you can play which ever way you choose. I grew up playing shooters, the original Socom for ps2 was my first online shooter..and definitely left an impact on how I view shooters and the way they're played. Yes there were grenade launchers in the socom series (somewhat comparable to MD's..not as many grenades in a clip) but only noobs used them. Not saying you guys are noobs! A players skill was determined in gunfights. Anyone can use a grenade launcher and get a kill in that game..its not difficult to aim in someones general direction and launch a grenade at their feet to get the kill. And i kind of view MD/Flaylocks the same way on this game as well. Sure I could use them too...i choose not to because im playing a First person shooter...not a First person grenade launcher. I personally dont find it the least bit gratifying to spam somebody with projectile grenades and kill them. Id much rather get in a gunfight with somebody and win it because my aim is better..that's what does it for me. No matter how many times i get killed by the flaylock or MD...ill never use it. To me, there's just something so unethical about playing with one in a FPS or any shooter. Perhaps its because ive played on a competitive level in all shooters ive played over the years..and the use of any kind of grenade other than those you threw with your hand was frowned upon. Again, just my opinion...if you enjoy using MD/Flaylock..rock on. I just think its a cheap way of killing somebody.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 19:26:00 - [2] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: zBroadway wrote: I feel bad for the OP..that scenario definitely sucks. But my empathy for you and all MD/Flaylock users only goes so far. This is just my personal opinion and is not directed towards any particular player who chooses to use these weapons, its your ps3 and you can play which ever way you choose. I grew up playing shooters, the original Socom for ps2 was my first online shooter..and definitely left an impact on how I view shooters and the way they're played. Yes there were grenade launchers in the socom series (somewhat comparable to MD's..not as many grenades in a clip) but only noobs used them. Not saying you guys are noobs! A players skill was determined in gunfights. Anyone can use a grenade launcher and get a kill in that game..its not difficult to aim in someones general direction and launch a grenade at their feet to get the kill. And i kind of view MD/Flaylocks the same way on this game as well. Sure I could use them too...i choose not to because im playing a First person shooter...not a First person grenade launcher. I personally dont find it the least bit gratifying to spam somebody with projectile grenades and kill them. Id much rather get in a gunfight with somebody and win it because my aim is better..that's what does it for me. No matter how many times i get killed by the flaylock or MD...ill never use it. To me, there's just something so unethical about playing with one in a FPS or any shooter. Perhaps its because ive played on a competitive level in all shooters ive played over the years..and the use of any kind of grenade other than those you threw with your hand was frowned upon. Again, just my opinion...if you enjoy using MD/Flaylock..rock on. I just think its a cheap way of killing somebody. Damn, I'm going to feel awkward around you from now on. Not really, but I'll never feel bad about using a MD in a game where someone can use a tank to kill you. Lol you shouldnt. Do what you do. Youre a cool dude..thats what matters to me..you can run around and get your kills however you want.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 19:54:00 - [3] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: zBroadway wrote: I feel bad for the OP..that scenario definitely sucks. But my empathy for you and all MD/Flaylock users only goes so far. This is just my personal opinion and is not directed towards any particular player who chooses to use these weapons, its your ps3 and you can play which ever way you choose. I grew up playing shooters, the original Socom for ps2 was my first online shooter..and definitely left an impact on how I view shooters and the way they're played. Yes there were grenade launchers in the socom series (somewhat comparable to MD's..not as many grenades in a clip) but only noobs used them. Not saying you guys are noobs! A players skill was determined in gunfights. Anyone can use a grenade launcher and get a kill in that game..its not difficult to aim in someones general direction and launch a grenade at their feet to get the kill. And i kind of view MD/Flaylocks the same way on this game as well. Sure I could use them too...i choose not to because im playing a First person shooter...not a First person grenade launcher. I personally dont find it the least bit gratifying to spam somebody with projectile grenades and kill them. Id much rather get in a gunfight with somebody and win it because my aim is better..that's what does it for me. No matter how many times i get killed by the flaylock or MD...ill never use it. To me, there's just something so unethical about playing with one in a FPS or any shooter. Perhaps its because ive played on a competitive level in all shooters ive played over the years..and the use of any kind of grenade other than those you threw with your hand was frowned upon. Again, just my opinion...if you enjoy using MD/Flaylock..rock on. I just think its a cheap way of killing somebody. You are judging the MD by the Grenade Launchers you knew from other games. The proverbial Noob Tub argument. This is common among players with experience in other FPS games, who have never bothered to use the MD themselves in DUST 514. Even in the Open Beta when the MD was more powerful and did not have this bug, it was harder to kill someone with a MD than it was to kill them with an Assault Rifle. With the AR you just point and shoot. With the MD you have to do a trigonometry equation in your head to figure out how much to elevate your shot to get the charge to land anywhere close to your target, unless you where close up, in which case the challenge was to kill your opponent without killing yourself. Any noob can pick up an Assault Riffle, point it at someone and pull the tricker to get a kill. Getting the kill with a Mass Driver is much more complicated than that. Of course people who used it a lot eventually got a feel for it and became very good at estimating the arch of the shells, but that still sort of invalidates your argument that it is easy, when it is only easy for the experts. Granted some people used it situationally from elevated positions to make the math less complicated, but there are situations where aiming an AR can be made less complicated as well. From my experiences, the mass driver is the most difficult to use of any weapon I have used in DUST. I will grant you that you can sometimes kill multiple people in one shot if they all cluster together and you make the shot, but with a MD you normally just get a lot of assists without a lot of kills. It is meant to be an area denial weapon, and once this bug is fixed it will work well for that. Grenade launchers in other FPS games have similar mechanics as well as aiming cursors. Where do you think CCP got the idea for the MD? CCP didnt pioneer the projectile grenade launcher..its been around since online shooters have. I am not correlating the MD to GLs from other shooters as far as the mechanics are concerned...rather the way in which they are used and how much easier it is to get a kill with. I will agree with you, there is certainly a learning curve to the MD. Maybe more so than other weapons. However, there is no absence of a learning curve for an Assault rifle either. I have actually tried using the Mass Driver on an alt last build just to see how difficult it was because that is a common argument from those who use it and I wanted to see for myself. Yes, it took me a few maps to really get the hang of it..ill admit it. But once I got the hang of it...it was so easy. You speak of using the MD, claiming that you need to do trigonometry in order to land successful shots...im not going to lie, that made me laugh a little bit. Its not rocket science like youre making it out to be..i got the hang of it in a few maps. And just like any other weapon..the more you use it..the better you get with it. Isnt that essentially what being an expert with a weapon is based off of? Nobody picks up a weapon and is an expert with it right off the bat..so to create a premise implying that mathematical equations and only those who are good at math will become experts with a MD invalidates your conclusion that: "MD is only easy for the experts". That would be like me saying, in order to be an expert with an Assault Rifle, you must have played other online shooters prior to Dust 514. Its just not true. Do you know how easy it is to get up in a high place and point down and shoot grenades into a crowd of people?? I mean you said yourself that it was lol. Have you tried getting up high and aiming directly below you with an assault rifle and trying to kill somebody? That is quite possibly the toughest shot in the game for an AR. You claim that with an AR all you have to do is point and shoot..and that any noob can pick one up and do good with it. Disagree. There is so much more to using an AR than point and shoot...anyone can tell you that. The main difference between AR and MD is that us AR users do not get rewarded for missing our shots like MD users do. If I empty half of my clip a foot or so to the left or right of a person..no damage is done..
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 20:06:00 - [4] - Quote but if you miss to the left or right of somebody by a foot with half your clip..plenty of damage is dealt. AND you have the ability to direct hit somebody as well as do splash damage from landing your round in close proximity. AR's can only do damage from direct hits..taking more skill to use effectively than a mass driver. If you think pointing and shooting is all it takes...youre sadly mistaken. We have to deal with recoil and take that into consideration while shooting..adjusting your cursor during the gunfight to consistently land shots. You have to be versatile enough to be effective with your hip fire as well as your down the sight aiming. I personally feel, and im sure many would agree, being in a gunfight where both players are strafing and hip firing is quite possibly the most difficult things to be really good at. If it were that easy, explain the dramatic kdr ratio differences between Assault Rifle users? If it were THAT easy to use an AR...why doesnt everyone who uses one have a really good kdr? And im not speaking on behalf of the MD/flaylock users using KDR as a baseline for skill...im only speaking about AR users.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 20:33:00 - [5] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: @zbroadway I agree with your noobtube arguement to a point. I never used one in anygame, except BF3 to take down vehicles. The reason people call it a noobtube tho, is because its a OHK weapon. Same reason people hate shotguns and snipers. The mass driver is far from that. It technically doesn't even shoot grenades, by dust standards at least. Secondly, you don't have to lead with an AR in dust. So your "better aim" argument is also invalid. See you get a little read dot when you are one target. I actually have to lead with a mass driver, albiet to a larger target area. I would say it takes about the same "skill" to use both weapons. Btw, your corp spams contact grenades. OMGTHESKILLZ! Edit: you made a mass driver alt and did well. Congrats. Do you do better with an AR? I made an HAV alt and dominated pub matches using mlt fit with no skills into AR... is that supposed to mean something? Double edit cus I sound like a prick now: your a good player z. Better than me. But I don't see how u get off saying that using an inferior weapon makes you less skilled... I disagree, you speak as if every time i shoot with my AR, my target is standing still. And we both know thats far from the truth..Especially when youre up against good players. If a player is running..i have to adjust my cursor accordingly so that it remains on that player while their sprinting. If im in a hip fire gunfight against a player who is strafing..i also have to simultaneously move my cursor while strafing. Yes, you do have to lead your target while somebody is running as well, im not taking that away from you or any MD/flaylock users..and im sure it takes as much time to get good at as it does to adjust your cursor in the same circumstance while using an AR. This argument is not at all related to the amount of damage either of the weapons do either..because DPS differs between AR and Flaylock/MD. Although, the same amount of damage is done regardless of distance for flaylock/md...while the same can not be said for the AR. And the MD is inferior, I will agree...but that doesnt mean that its harder to use than the AR. However, this is about what weapon I think takes more skill to use..DPS done for an AR is rewarded only for direct hits...while DPS for MD flaylock get rewarded for both direct shots and splash damage for those rounds placed in close proximity of the target. I wasnt speaking on behalf of my corp. I do not use contact grenades because I feel like they dont take any skill to use and its an easy way to get a kill. Not the way i choose to play the game. I do better with an AR because its what i use 80% of the time. Im sure if I put as many hours into using a MD/Flaylock, id be pretty good with that thing too. Again, Time spent using a weapon is directly related to how good you are as an individual with it. Period.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 21	Posted - 2013.06.24 20:53:00 - [6] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Not everyone is equal z. Even if they both have an AR you know this. Each weapon has its niche as well. Answer a question for me. If the AR is not easy mode, why is it most used? (Like the cal logi, contact grenades, llavs, and now flaylock) Youre absolutely right..not everyone is equal. Majority of the time its because of gear. And it sucks that it has to be like that..if it were up to me..everyone would have the same amount of HP and all ARs would do the same damage...but its not. I believe it is most used for a couple reasons. Its a FPS...so naturally anyone who plays the game and has played shooters in the past immediately go for the AR because its what they know and what theyre comfortable with. Especially in the beginning. Thats why I picked up the AR..hell, i had no clue about other guns except for when they killed me and I wasnt really interested in using them at that time because I needed to get a feel for the maps/gameplay first before i started playing around with something else. It is the most versatile weapon in the game...well it was in chromosome by a long shot with sharpshooter increasing range. Gives you the ability to compete in the thick of things while also allowing you to play defensively by hanging back. I wouldnt consider an AR easy mode weapon though...yes, it caters to both play styles. But outside of a sniper..wouldnt you agree that it takes the most precision to use? Yea..anyone can pick up an AR and be relatively good with it..im not arguing that. But if it were THAT easy to use, wouldnt everyone who used one have an astronomically high Kdr? Oh i think Flaylocks are WAYYY worse than MD's...in fact i think MD's need some kind of buff to be honest. Just to clear things up lol...idk why everyone who uses these weapons are getting so offended! By no means do I think youre a garbage player if you use either of those weapons. I just prefer not to use anything along those lines. And i personally feel like it takes more skill to be a game changer with an AR than it does a MD/Flaylock (specifically flaylock..not so much MD). The best way i can put it is like this: when i get killed by somebody using a flaylock..at no point do i think, "wow what an owner..that kid just wrecked me" I just shake my head and roll my eyes..because I know if that same player had an AR..they wouldnt stand a chance. But if some dude melts me with an AR in a gunfight, i gain so much more respect for them as a player..same goes for any weapon that somebody kills me with that isnt a projectile explosive. Unless theyre redline/MCC sniping lol. **** those nerds.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 24	Posted - 2013.06.24 21:28:00 - [7] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: It does take more precision to use an AR, you also have what? 60 bullets per clip to my 6? Plus a MUCH faster RoF. Occasionally I do pop in tho. And I took your first comment to be kind or arrogant, and AoE users are scum kind of deal. It takes skill to use any weapon in the game. Tbh, I do much better with an AR. I run a true support logi, I like the playstyle, and the MD is simply the best weapon for that role. I like to be able to flush from cover, deny access at chokepoints, and occasionally rain some cheap death from a bridge or building. It wasnt meant to be arrogant..and im sorry you took it that way. It had nothing to do with me thinking im a better player because I dont use one..or just thinking im a better player in general. I feel the same way about people who used laser rifles last build lol..idk maybe its just because i look at Any shooter FPS or TPS the same way and i always had the most respect for people who used ARs..definitely a personal perspective, not stemming from arrogance. Mass Drivers are very effective weapons in those scenarios you listed above...the truest Crowd control weapon on the game.