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Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
494
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Posted - 2013.06.23 19:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
-1
No.
No.
No.
and... No.
Why do so many people think that EVERY other role has to fight exactly as they? Don't you understand? Snipers and Enforcer tanks are at a severe disadvantage at close-range? Why in a living fk do you think it would make sense for them to spawn where you can reach them?
Forcing people that don't have the fits or capability of fighting out of spawn, to bottleneck AT a spawn for rewards does not fix the problem.
Stop seeing the game from just your own viewpoint.
What good will it POSSIBLY do to force snipers and tankers to spawn at a position right in front of combat?
Oh right, YOU can kill them easier.
Learn to counter-snipe into the redline, and get some good AV.
Or if doing something as simple as that is just TOO HARD for you.... learn to sit down in some cover, stfu, and defend your objective like you're supposed to be doing. Not worrying about who is doing what from the redline.
Let people that know how to fight and adapt worry about the redline.
If you don't have the SP needed to counter them, do what you can with militia gear until you do.
>.< |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
496
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Posted - 2013.06.23 23:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:I know perfectly that snipers needs range to be effective, but you don't need to sit in the redline the entire match to have range, there are lots of positions from where snipe not into the redline. I'm not trying to nerf snipers and sniper tanks, but i belive that you should actually have risks to get rewards. I know that most tankers snipe because tanks cannot survive proto or even advanced AV, but maybe would be better to actually balance tanks and av, not let people snipe from the other side of the map with where they can just recall theyr tank is a random shot is throw in theyr direction. I remember when tanks where strong enough that you needed 3-4 people to take them down and they actually supported the infantry. I loved it, it was FUN. Being killed from the other side of the map without chance to fire back is not fun. I WANT tanks and people to snipe, but i want them to be vulnerable, they shouldn't sit into the redline safe from the others. I dont' want snipers removed from the game, i want them to have risks like every other class in the game. I know that i can just grab a sniper rifle and kill the redline sniper (i do it sometimes, most redline snipers are crappy) but if the only counter to a weapon is the weapon itself the game is no balanced.
The belief that it's unreasonable to fight from the red zone came from people that are ignorant to how the game was BEFORE the red zone was there. The very things people complain about when it comes to the red zone, is the very reason why the red zone was created.
It was created as a buffer zone for an enemy team to FIGHT FROM.
It does not make anyone invulnerable. It does not make anyone invincible. There is NO part within an enemy red zone, that you cannot reach. The ONLY thing that the red zone prevents is the permanent existence of enemy units. That's it.
It's a feature, not a bug/problem.
Tanks used to be very good. Now they are crap (the imbalance of Gallente HAVs being so much better overall to Caldari HAVs is one example). Can you blame a shield rail tanker for staying away from the heat?
"Being killed from the other side of the map without chance to fire back is not fun"?
Being killed, from someone you can't see is not fun.
Being killed, without a chance to fire back is not fun.
Being killed, without a chance, is not fun.
Being killed, is not fun.
(See what I did there?)
You don't like getting sniped.
The sniper doesn't like getting shot, knifed, etc. in his back. He has next to no chance when someone flanks him, and someone will ALWAYS flank him. ALWAYS. Because you have folks that are just THAT dedicated to flanking snipers, objectives be damned. Can you blame the sniper for staying away from the heat?
These snipers and tankers are not invulnerable, but they are able to reduce their risk by fighting from the red zone. If anything, the red zone/very hard to reach places, is the only reason they can even exist.
1 counter sniper can suppress a sniper.
1 swarm launcher can suppress a rail tank. The moment those two are suppressed, they are rendered useless to their team, and are as good as dead. What more do you want?
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Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
498
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Posted - 2013.06.24 00:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:@Jathniel, just climb up a ladder into a building if you need to snipe, you make it sound like the red line is the only place there is to snipe.
Building's dont help. They're still just going to get a shotgun in the back, and displaced.
Doesn't make a difference when an AR can still tag and kill you up there. lol
The time it takes for a sniper's aim to stop swaying, the AR has already acquired you, and dumped rounds into your head.
It gives you a "why bother use a sniper rifle, when i'm in everyone's range anyway?" dilemma.
That's why I don't snipe anymore.
I kill "brave snipers" that drop their boots on the ground with impunity using a tactical or a scrambler.
The "smart" ones, are the ones that are setup in the MCC, hidden well in mountains, and are in obscure positions in towers that can only be accessed via dropship... and guess what, those are the same ones that people complain about. lol
The snipers that make a difference in a match, we hate to face, and love when they're on our team.
The snipers that don't make a difference in a match, we love to face, and hate when they're on our team.
This thread is just the same old tired arguing about something that actually works. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
505
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jay Westen wrote:Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:Jay Westen wrote:Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:Remove ALL SP and WP gains while in the redline
IF
The team have a spawn point (CRU, mCRU, drop uplink, objective) outside of the redline.
With this idea people would still be able to fight back if redlined, but redline snipers (both tank and infantry) and afkers would get exaclty 0 wp and 0 sp Aw, looks like someone got red lined. I'm going to tell you like I tell every other person who complains about the redline. Keep the default sniper fit. Then counter snipe. Also, I haven't seen a redline tank really do much in a battle, and afkers really get nothing I battle sooo... if there was no redline you'd be on here complaining about being spawn camped. Adapt or die. You fail at reading I'm not proposing a solution to Redlin ing (there is no need, you got redlined, get a drop uplink and get your ass out of there). I'm proposing a solution to redline snipers and tankers and a way to remove rewards for mcc afkers. I'll try to explain better. People in the redline should not get WP and passive SP IF their team have a way to respawn OUTSIDE of the redline. So that people can fight to get OUT of the redline, and be rewarded for doing so, but snipers and tanks sitting in the redline and afkers get no reward. Risk VS reward No risk = No reward Obviously you fail at reading also. I told you how to counter a redline sniper. Now stfu and color. Jesus, I'm sick of everyone complaining this is to powerful, this isn't fair... Its a tactical game think of your own damn solution to a problem rather than asking for mechanics to make it easier on you.
For real.
They think it's hard to deal with a sniper/tanker firing from the red zone?
A sniper's usefulness and life expectancy plummets when he's not in an effective perch, camping an objective, or in some place where he is very hard to reach. Period.
On some maps, depending on the random buildings loaded in; good positions either in the red zone, or on the far perimeter of the map, are often your best options. If you're getting sniped, and you can't reach that sniper readily, then that sniper is doing an excellent job.
As for tankers, rail tankers are sitting ducks. People didn't want the railguns to blow them up so easily up close, so they they were nerfed, and that's why they are now relegated to sniping. Cry about them blasting you away up close, and cry about them blasting you away at a distance. Either way, there is crying.
All this is boiling down to, is that people don't like to die. It has nothing to do with wanting the game balanced.
If game balance was the intention, we'd see more people asking to reduce weaknesses in other roles, not asking to have those weaknesses further exploited.
Here are some actual imbalances to address:
1. Armor HAV > Shield HAV
2. Medium Dropsuits > Heavy and Light Dropsuits
3. Vehicles vs. AV (I don't think we'll ever get this just right. Just look at AV nades and LAVs)
4. Matchmaking (if matches were properly formed to begin with, you wouldn't complain about redline fighting at all.)
5. Plasma Cannons
6. Laser Rifles
7. Contact Grenades (why is their damage on-par with timed ones? Fused Nade vs. Sleek Nade? No brainer.)
These are imbalances (I'm sure I'm forgetting some), but someone using their brain, and making use of their map and environment in the most advantageous way possible for their role, is NOT one of them. The red zone is a provision for combat, and it makes no sense to penalize people for utilizing it.
Let's see teams start winning matches from the red zone, then you'll have reason to complain. |
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