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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
86
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Posted - 2013.06.21 04:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I see three separate issues with logi vs. assault:
1. Logi is too good at killing which is assault's role.
2. The general logi / assault bonuses favor certain races too much. Assault bonus isn't good for armor tanks, logi isn't good for shield tanks (Unless they dual tank like most Caldari.)
3. Logi's intended role has lost a lot of usefulness. Most builds regenerate armor fairly efficiently on their own now. The days of beta where you were constantly running around repping people's armor damage that they couldn't regenerate themselves are gone. I run reps in a lot of my builds and barely use them because they are rarely needed.
I have 1 solution that solves ALL THREE problems quickly and simply:
Assault bonus: Light weapons do 4% more damage per level
Logistics bonus: Armor repairers heal shields for 20% of their armor repair amount per level
Problem 1 Solved: Logi's trade their armor repair bonus for one that is useless if you are playing a logi like an assault. Assault on the other hand become much more deadly at their intended role.
Problem 2 Solved: All good assault fits use a light weapon. Snipers, AV, the AR toting masses, shotguns, you name it. All logi will find it useful to rep shields and armor at the same time.
Problem 3 Solved: Logi's can now effectively be active healers. When they run into a firefight they can recharge people's shields or run behind heavies allowing them to shrug off large amounts of damage. They can even run behind HAVs no matter which type of damage they tank. A logi can now effectively be a full time healer like a Team Fortress 2 medic minus the ub+½r. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've seen someone post on how to make a proto Caldari logistics suit with more HP and HP regeneration than a proto heavy.
I'm sorry but given you can run an AR which is good at any range other than extreme longrange, that makes you too damn good at killing.
Meanwhile I actually played logi in beta but won't anymore because logi straight up suck at their intended purpose. Or rather, they aren't needed because everyone can heal themselves now. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would also like everyone to note that what I'm proposing isn't even a nerf. It's just making each suit better at their intended roles. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:The fact that, in general, the shield recharge delays are lower on the logi suits compared to assault suits is mind boggling. The fact is, for a minor loss in movement speed (unless you're minmatar), and no sidearm, you get better shield recharge delays, much higher potential tank, more equip slots, more cpu/pg, and more useful racial classi bonus's. Especially with aiming being so ****** up atm, and the nerf uprising gave to movement speed, there's few good reasons to be assault.
The main reason to go assault is swarm launchers and other weapons that leave you open without a sidearm. A logi with a SL is helpless vs. infantry. So are snipers, plasma cannons(lol), and laser rifles to a lesser degree.
However the 70%+ of the games population that use ARs and scram rifles (What I refer to as the AR toting masses) have no good reason to go assault over logi. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:As an assault, I can't agree to the bonus you would give me because I would drop people that much quicker than I already do. I feel it would be unfair to the other players at the barrel end of my rifle.
Also please define these roles that CCP intended to chain us down with? And if you say that assault's role is to kill or "slayer", I will hurl kittens in your direction. And you wouldn't want me to do that right? Think of the poor kittens.
Scout = Objective ninjaers and ambushers.
Assault = Front line fighters. Meant to be well rounded in speed vs. health vs. damage.
Logi = Primarily support, capable of fighting back but disadvantaged in 1 vs. 1s.
Heavy = Sacrifices speed for massive damage and HP.
Logistics is meant to be slightly easier to play for people who aren't teenage twitch monkeys as they revolve more around strategy and... logistics. Which is why I played them in beta. Standard Minmatar logi with a MD, armor rep, revive, and nanohive.
Right now they aren't very needed for that purpose but damn are the twitch monkeys loving them as a much beefier and slightly slower version of assault.
It's time to put the twitch monkeys back in assault suits where they belong and give logis back to people who play logistics.
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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
87
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Tharak Meuridiar wrote:
The main reason to go assault is swarm launchers and other weapons that leave you open without a sidearm. A logi with a SL is helpless vs. infantry. So are snipers, plasma cannons(lol), and laser rifles to a lesser degree.
However the 70%+ of the games population that use ARs and scram rifles (What I refer to as the AR toting masses) have no good reason to go assault over logi.
If the primary reason for using an assault suit is the side arm, why not use the basic suit instead? The basic suit is less SP intensive than the other 2 medium frame variants. Because I see many assault fits, I have to disagree that there is no good reason to pick the assault variant over the logistic variant. Personally for me, it was the Amarr assault's heat reduction bonus that made me choose it over the logistic suit. +1 for sparing the kittens
Heat reduction is a good bonus but I kind of hate Amarr suits in general because they come with less combine high/low slots than any other race.
I run Caldari assault for three reasons:
1. I have a BPO
2. They cost less ISK
3. Some bonus > no bonus
Primarily it's because I'm far more stingy with ISK than SP. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
87
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 07:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:A 20% damage bonus is both ridiculously overpowered and an indirect nerf to every suit in the game as it would drastically reduce survival times for everyone.
It's not like I pulled that number straight out of my butt. I've extensively tested it and concluded it's very balanced.
In no ways could you drop it down to 15 or even 10%. In no way is the general idea more important than the number.
/sarcasm |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
87
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 07:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:So, penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Not quite. I use infantry builds to generate ISK for vehicle builds. So I'm using my SP to maximize the effectiveness of infantry builds that range from 0-10,000 ISK. Anything higher and I'm cutting into my profits too heavily if I lose suits.
I'm not planning to run protos until fighters and mechs are released. |
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