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Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
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Posted - 2013.06.21 02:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
XX-Heavy-Rain-XX wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Void Echo wrote:RailGuns are electric based and require no real ammo, its an electric charge that sends out the shot. the blaster... I have to give you a point on that, its the same thing as an assault riffle only 5x bigger, missiles idgaf about Railguns have projectiles- you could use a foil-wrapped potato as a projectile, but it would still need to be something to fire. And as far as supply depots, they're actually useful to vehicles right now- park next to them and they'll repair your armor. Yes you could even draw particulate matter out of the air, condense then shoot it, or how about electrons? Plenty of those about.
That's not how a railgun works, and definitely not how a Hybrid-Class weapon in EVE works.
Also, I keep hearing you say you get this '50% nerf' if your ammo is limited, but where is the math for this? You just pulling another number from your exhaust port? And your example of rushing a Blaster Tank at a Depot using a Railgun Tank... what kind of moron are you? Do Snipers rush Heavies, or do they attack them from a comfortable range? Do people have a right to complain when they get shot in the middle of nowhere while rushing the entrenched? |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 03:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:
tanks are not meant for support
HAHAHAHA, ah, good one mate... wait you're serious?! Oi...
A tank is a large vehicle and a staple of supporting a group of infantry, but it is only support. Without infantry it will rapidly cave under the fire of AV if that AV does not have to worry about enemy troops. What do you do if some AV spec scout gets too close to your tank and you can't turn fast enough? You die like a lamb to slaughter because you fought alone. Furthermore with the one-man tank crews in DUST, you can't make the argument that tanks are meant to be major frontline weapons, as these are far simpler than a standard tank. In games like Red Orchestra and Planetside One, tanks can be forces of immense power because they need multiple people to run. In games like Halo and DUST, the one-man tank cannot multiply your strength too much or else it becomes endgame tech and outmodes the lighter weapons. |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 03:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Void Echo wrote:
tanks are not meant for support
HAHAHAHA, ah, good one mate... wait you're serious?! Oi... A tank is a large vehicle and a staple of supporting a group of infantry, but it is only support. Without infantry it will rapidly cave under the fire of AV if that AV does not have to worry about enemy troops. What do you do if some AV spec scout gets too close to your tank and you can't turn fast enough? You die like a lamb to slaughter because you fought alone. Furthermore with the one-man tank crews in DUST, you can't make the argument that tanks are meant to be major frontline weapons, as these are far simpler than a standard tank. In games like Red Orchestra and Planetside One, tanks can be forces of immense power because they need multiple people to run. In games like Halo and DUST, the one-man tank cannot multiply your strength too much or else it becomes endgame tech and outmodes the lighter weapons. hehehe, thought that would make someone laugh, your argument is a little weak though, iv proven time and time again that solo tanks are effective on the battle field and that random blues that you say will help teamwork are worthless in my turrets. once again, this is a mercenary game not call of duty, call of duty works with teamwork, dust 514 specifically say "mercenary"
In all seriousness there are two kinds of tank. To simplify, there is the Main Battle Tank which is what you see in most media, and the Support Tank, a smaller, flimsier creature designer more for hit-and-run and fighting MBTs. DUST HAVs are STs, not MBTs. WOOO ACRONYMS! |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 03:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Void Echo wrote:
tanks are not meant for support
HAHAHAHA, ah, good one mate... wait you're serious?! Oi... A tank is a large vehicle and a staple of supporting a group of infantry, but it is only support. Without infantry it will rapidly cave under the fire of AV if that AV does not have to worry about enemy troops. What do you do if some AV spec scout gets too close to your tank and you can't turn fast enough? You die like a lamb to slaughter because you fought alone. Furthermore with the one-man tank crews in DUST, you can't make the argument that tanks are meant to be major frontline weapons, as these are far simpler than a standard tank. In games like Red Orchestra and Planetside One, tanks can be forces of immense power because they need multiple people to run. In games like Halo and DUST, the one-man tank cannot multiply your strength too much or else it becomes endgame tech and outmodes the lighter weapons. hehehe, thought that would make someone laugh, your argument is a little weak though, iv proven time and time again that solo tanks are effective on the battle field and that random blues that you say will help teamwork are worthless in my turrets. once again, this is a mercenary game not call of duty, call of duty works with teamwork, dust 514 specifically say "mercenary"
Your turrets are not where the teamwork lies, and Mercenaries create things called PMCs for a reason. When fighting randoms with randoms, your HAV may seem like an unstoppable force. When pub stomping, it may actually almost become one. But in a full on, everything on the table fight a DUST HAV is not meant to lead the charge. I'm sure your corp, Internal Error, didn't get to where it was by having their entire membership care only about themselves and their next paycheck, yes? You seem to not understand the definition of the term 'mercenary.' A mercenary is a person that does things for the major result of getting paid. To do so, many of the murder-type of mercenary form groups because they know they can get farther with a team than on their own.
More on topic, I believe there should be a bigger, slower, tankier tank that requires three people as the MBT of DUST, and that all vehicles should have ammo restraints. The current tanks are fine as Support Tanks and should remain that way sans infinite ammo.
A single man's experiences on the battlefield do not epitomize the class as a whole. I've seen someone go 25 and 2 with Nova Knives, doesn't mean that they are what they aren't. |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 03:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Void Echo wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Void Echo wrote:
tanks are not meant for support
HAHAHAHA, ah, good one mate... wait you're serious?! Oi... A tank is a large vehicle and a staple of supporting a group of infantry, but it is only support. Without infantry it will rapidly cave under the fire of AV if that AV does not have to worry about enemy troops. What do you do if some AV spec scout gets too close to your tank and you can't turn fast enough? You die like a lamb to slaughter because you fought alone. Furthermore with the one-man tank crews in DUST, you can't make the argument that tanks are meant to be major frontline weapons, as these are far simpler than a standard tank. In games like Red Orchestra and Planetside One, tanks can be forces of immense power because they need multiple people to run. In games like Halo and DUST, the one-man tank cannot multiply your strength too much or else it becomes endgame tech and outmodes the lighter weapons. hehehe, thought that would make someone laugh, your argument is a little weak though, iv proven time and time again that solo tanks are effective on the battle field and that random blues that you say will help teamwork are worthless in my turrets. once again, this is a mercenary game not call of duty, call of duty works with teamwork, dust 514 specifically say "mercenary" Your turrets are not where the teamwork lies, and Mercenaries create things called PMCs for a reason. When fighting randoms with randoms, your HAV may seem like an unstoppable force. When pub stomping, it may actually almost become one. But in a full on, everything on the table fight a DUST HAV is not meant to lead the charge. I'm sure your corp, Internal Error, didn't get to where it was by having their entire membership care only about themselves and their next paycheck, yes? You seem to not understand the definition of the term 'mercenary.' A mercenary is a person that does things for the major result of getting paid. To do so, many of the murder-type of mercenary form groups because they know they can get farther with a team than on their own. More on topic, I believe there should be a bigger, slower, tankier tank that requires three people as the MBT of DUST, and that all vehicles should have ammo restraints. The current tanks are fine as Support Tanks and should remain that way sans infinite ammo. A single man's experiences on the battlefield do not epitomize the class as a whole. I've seen someone go 25 and 2 with Nova Knives, doesn't mean that they are what they aren't. that tank wont be used, and it wont be an assault vehicle, it would be the support vehicle since it requires 3 people to operate (good luck finding a driver for that thing if they cant use the cannon), just like the enforcers are not used. internal error doesn't care what I do as long as it doesn't affect them.
I guarantee you it will see heavy use in whatever modes matter beyond the end of battle score, such as PC. If it has the raw power to offset the manpower drain, then it will probably be more of a staple than the current HAVs.
Also, when I said 'most media' I did in fact mean on Earth, because that is the media that you consume, and it is the media that made Void Echo think that a tank has x characteristics. There could be a Saturday morning cartoon named 'Sagaris and Friends' airing at 9:30 in the Citadel Constellation, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what you're basing your idea of a tank on. |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 04:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:in case you didn't get the memo, this game is NOT on earth, it is NOT is present day when you and I are alive in real life, this is NOT in the milky way galaxy, I hate when you people keep saying "well, its like this and that on earth" THIS IS NOT AN EARTH GAME, IT IS BASED IN A GALAXY ACROSS THE UNIVERSE 20000 YEARS FROM PRESENT DAY EARTH.
And what, this is a blank check for nothing to make sense? There are certain standards which need to be followed when certain terminology is used, and certain levels of consistency that need to be kept to maintain the lore. All things in EVE and DUST have limited ammo, ergo vehicles in DUST should also have limited ammo. A tank is a tank is a tank, so if you call a tank a tank and it looks like a tank it should behave like.... well, certainly not a duck. The DUST vehicles already have weakpoints dotted along their hulls, so we know such a feature is being implemented. This may be 'a galaxy acorss the universe' but it isn't nearly 20k years later, and it is also after a long 'Dark Age' directly after the collapse of the EVEGate.
IN SHORT, if your tank can not be limited by the common idea of a tank, then my shotgun should be effective at 150 meters because spacefutures. Once again, sounds a tad silly, eh? |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
520
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 05:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Void Echo wrote:in case you didn't get the memo, this game is NOT on earth, it is NOT is present day when you and I are alive in real life, this is NOT in the milky way galaxy, I hate when you people keep saying "well, its like this and that on earth" THIS IS NOT AN EARTH GAME, IT IS BASED IN A GALAXY ACROSS THE UNIVERSE 20000 YEARS FROM PRESENT DAY EARTH. And what, this is a blank check for nothing to make sense? There are certain standards which need to be followed when certain terminology is used, and certain levels of consistency that need to be kept to maintain the lore. All things in EVE and DUST have limited ammo, ergo vehicles in DUST should also have limited ammo. A tank is a tank is a tank, so if you call a tank a tank and it looks like a tank it should behave like.... well, certainly not a duck. The DUST vehicles already have weakpoints dotted along their hulls, so we know such a feature is being implemented. This may be 'a galaxy acorss the universe' but it isn't nearly 20k years later, and it is also after a long 'Dark Age' directly after the collapse of the EVEGate. IN SHORT, if your tank can not be limited by the common idea of a tank, then my shotgun should be effective at 150 meters because spacefutures. Once again, sounds a tad silly, eh? tell me plain and simple, whats your argument?
My 'argument' is that your excuse of allcaps 'it's da future' just doesn't cut it. Just because it's the future doesn't mean that the vehicles can be out of line with every other aspect of the world fiction and of the preconceptions of the role of a tank. You can call a tank a rabbit and set it on the forest moon of Endor, but we'll all still call it a tank and expect it to act like a tank while firing lasers because it's in Star Wars. Similarly, you can call it an HAV and plonk it on the desolate surface of Moldon Heath II, but we'll all call it a tank, expect it to act like a tank, and expect it to have limited ammo like every Blaster Rifle, Autocannon, Scout, Frigate, Dropsuit and Ship in the entirety of the EVE universe. |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
521
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I remember you Ninja, you hopped into our squad a few days ago when my group was seeing off one of our guys for surgery. Thanks for the help, you and your tank made her last game one of her best :3 |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens
League of Infamy
521
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 16:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:4447 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:OP didnt even think it through because suprise suprise he doesnt use vehicles (free LAV excluded)
Lets go through why its a bad idea
1. No squad lock/kick - Johnny useless bluedot jumps into my tank and spams the small turrets like a ****** wasting my ammo and my ISK since ammo costs
2. Ammo - where to buy it and how much? also i want diff ammo types so i can throw on some kinetic ammo t hurt a shield tank more or some explosive to hurt that armor tank more
3. Cargohold - I want a big cargohold so i can carry 100k of ammo if i want to
4. Where to get ammo from if in match? is it going to be from supply depots? if it is then some depots better be dropped down to where tanks can access it instead of being out of reach, is it a nanohive? if so we need a new nanohive
5. Turret clips - How many in clip and how long it takes to reload?
6. Skills - Like being able to increase the size of a cargohold, to be able to increase the size of turret clips and how much ammo is in a clip like all small weapons have
Thats all i can think of atm Why would ammo cost at this point of time? Maybe in the future though. I mean it's all about balance. 6 points Only comments on 1 Thread is done, everyone out, bad idea is bad and not thought out Clear the thread its over
Points 2, 3, and 6 all assume we are playing with EVE's idea of ammo capacity as opposed to DUST, but I assure you they'll add 'more ammo' skills in the turrets section to mirror the 'more ammo' weaponry skills.
Point 1 also assumes this is EVE with each individual bullet costing money. There should be some form of security, say only squaddies can jump into a tank without a hacking sequence, but if they spam the weak turrets it doesn't cost you anything.
Point 4 is obviously Supply Depots, as I believe the OP has a point in needing to make the Depots more important to vehicle drivers by way of ammo restoration. Possibly a LLAV module that functions like a nanohive could be added as well, something like 3-5 pulses, 1 second between pulses, 30-60 second cooldown.
Finally, point 5. If you listen to your tank, all of them are reloading already. That is the time between shots. Missiles(ROCKETS) reload, as do Railguns, and Blasters appear to be belt-fed. This will limit the ammo count, but there won't be any major difference in fire rate.
I hope these answers were satisfactory. |
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