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Pull a Square Enix (if you don't read this i'll cry)

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Draco Dustflier DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:28:00 - [1] - Quote Do what square enix did with ffxiv and take dust offline for a few years to rebuild. What we have now is an unfinished game that even the PLAYERS hate. Broken aiming system, inconsistent hit detection, major framerate issues, and a number of other glaring flaws in the games core mechanics are driving away 90% of new players, and veteran players are wearing out faster than vets of any game i've seen so far. All of this can be solved by fixing a couple of things, but those things will take forever to fix unless you take dust offline. once you read the list, you'll see why. What i suggest is porting the game from unreal engine 3 to unreal engine 4, and rather than releasing the reborn version of dust on ps3, release it on ps4. You'll have less hoops to jump through on the technical side, and there is a LOT more possible on ps4. The core mechanics (aiming, hit detection, collision, etc.) have to be at LEAST on par with competing games (blacklight retribution, pS2, BF4) before you do anything else. if thhe game feels as "slippery" as it does now, nobody will play it. I don't care if you have to copy and paste the source code from Unreal tournament, you have GOT to make it work. I cannot stress it enough. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF ANY FIRST PERSON SHOOTER! DON'T EVEN ATTEMPT TO CALL IT A COMPLETE GAME IF IT IS NOT! With regards to weapon balance, you need to take into consideration what the original purpose of each weapon is. the assault rifle, for example, is the most versatile weapon, with AVERAGE performance in all situations. it shouldn't be good at any of them. When you have one weapon that is vood at everything, it will be spammed like crazy. That's what happened with the tac rifle. Not only was it good in all situations, but it OUTPERFORMED the specialty weapons (shotguns, mass drivers, laser rifles). What you need to do is make it so that each weapon has one thing that it does better than everything else, and one weakness (eg. laser rifles should be good at long range but terrible at close, like they were in chromosome, shotguns should murk up close and not even touch anything at long ranges, mass drivers should be good for crowd control but not so much for 1v1, hmgs should obliterate single targets, the list goes on and on.) the rock paper scissors idea should also apply to the suits: scout beats heavy, assault beats scout, and heavy beats assault. Logis shold be weak to everything so they can't be pseudo assaults like they are now. you might even have to make so they can only use sidearms.) It would be fantastic if this applied to vehicle combat as well: derpships beat tanks, tanks beat mavs, and mavs beat derpships. lavs should stick to running people over. When it comes to equipment, there's really only one thing that needs to be fixed: nanite injectors. they are absolutely useless. The only fix is to get rid of them entirely and have the repair tool do the reviving. Make it work like it does in planetside 2. get in range of the dead guy, start repping, and he gets up after 3 seconds. this will also allow logis to keep their teams supplied with both clones and ammunition rather than having to carry an injector and a rep tool. Modules. whats wrong with those? a couple of things. Fiirst off, damage modifiers have no place in a first person shooter. Battlefield, uncharted, killzone, hell, even Call of Duty have removed any form of damage increase from the equation, because if you give people a perk or booster that gives you extra damage, nothing else will be used. Secondly (not sure if thats a word) Shield extenders need to give a percenttage boost (5% militia, 20% complex) instead of a flat increase. There should also be a stacking penalty, just like dqmage mods or kincats. And scout suits should vet some kind of bonus so that they aren't hit as hard by this change. Armor can stay the way it is, as it doesn't regenerate and the movement penalty is enough to drive most players away. There should also be some kind of "ammo pool extender" that lets you carry an extra clip per mod. prototype versions should consume less pg and cpu. On to the skills. As of now, the amount of time it takes for a player to get into a complete prototype fitting can range anywhere from 6 months to a year. for vehicles its even worse. All this does is restrict people to a specific playstyle for a a ridiculously long time. That's one of the main reasons the game gets stale so quickly. You need to allow for at least SOME variety. if you're adamant on the no respec policy, you need to speed up the skill rate to about 10x what it is now. This is going to be the most contrraversial part. None of the isk or sp earned on ps3 should carry over to the ps4. I know this is a painful proposition, but think about it: 99% of newcomers are stomped on so badly after the acsdemy that they quit the game. i got about 20 of my friends to try the game, and all of them left because they realized the beta players got a ridiculous head start and they would never catch up. the amount of players you lose because of this will probably not exceed 500. the amount of players you will gain if you do this right on ps4 will be enormous compwared to that. I know i may have bashed the game in the past, but it's just because i feel like every single constructive post on the forums either gets ignored or shot down by CCP because it's too hard to implement. I want the game to succeed, but right now it seems like it could take 20 years before its actually playable. in that time, i could make my own game.
ISuperstar DIOS X. II 101	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:29:00 - [2] - Quote Last person who posted this got post locked, deleted, and banned. Haven't seen him since. Sad, it was a constructive thread too, with some good feedback. CCP commands you like their game or face the consequences. Good luck!
Draco Dustflier DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:33:00 - [3] - Quote ISuperstar wrote: Last person who posted this got post locked, deleted, and banned. Haven't seen him since. Sad, it was a constructive thread too, with some good feedback. CCP commands you like their game or face the consequences. Good luck! but i do like the game.
Protocake JR Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 111	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:38:00 - [4] - Quote I agree.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 754	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:39:00 - [5] - Quote Controls, in terms of core mechanics, are pretty good right now. This can only be improved to an extent before lag/frame rate and hit detection issues, combined with the fact that in this shooter it takes more than 2 bullets to kill somebody, make it seem as if the mechanics are wonky but in actual fact it's because you're meant to take longer to kill someone. So suggesting better mechanics, but increasing the time it takes to kill someone by removing damage modifiers and buffing shield extenders is, imho, counter-intuitive.
Kinky Burrito A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS 26	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:40:00 - [6] - Quote If they took it offline, it would be pure garbage when they brought I back because the players here know infinitely more about making a good FPS than CCP does.
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 271	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:45:00 - [7] - Quote lets just go back into closed
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1954	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:47:00 - [8] - Quote Do you have any idea how bad Dust would have to get for it to be on the level FFXIV was when it had to go back to beta? CCP would have to be circling the drain. Dust has it's problems, but if things have to get as bad as that, I'd rather quit and play something else.
Draco Dustflier DUST University Ivy League 74	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:20:00 - [9] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Controls, in terms of core mechanics, are pretty good right now. This can only be improved to an extent before lag/frame rate and hit detection issues, combined with the fact that in this shooter it takes more than 2 bullets to kill somebody, make it seem as if the mechanics are wonky but in actual fact it's because you're meant to take longer to kill someone. So suggesting better mechanics, but increasing the time it takes to kill someone by removing damage modifiers and buffing shield extenders is, imho, counter-intuitive. I'm not asking to buff shield extenders by 20%, i'm asking for ccp to change the way they work. Right now, you can basically triple your shields, if what i'm asking for was implemented, taking into account the stacking penalty, you would only be able to get a 50% boost to your shields instead of what we have now. thats 4 extra hits from an ar instead of 9 like we have now. it is what an 'experienced' develper would call a BALANCED nerf. And the aiming is not okay. At all.
Ignatius Crumwald IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 585	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:34:00 - [10] - Quote I would actually recommend this were it still October. We're a bit too far out of the gate and CCP may be doing well financially, but it's not Square-Enix sitting on piles of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest money.

Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 449	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:37:00 - [11] - Quote Doing what Square did would kill this game completely, Square was barely able to pull it off since they have the rest of the FF series and other games like Just Cause 2 published in the meantime whereas CCP only have EVE
mollerz Minja Scouts 446	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:40:00 - [12] - Quote i diagree with the ditching of chars between the ps3 and ps4 platforms. first off, i am never going to grind this game again. i don't think anyone else will want to. it's been quite a trial getting my char to where he is, and i don't think i could suffer that again. i'd have to reconsider playing eve as well.. i was going to ditch eve when dust came into being... but if i sour on dust, my eve sub will be collateral damage for sure. the only reason at this point to keep it is to make dust cooler IMHO. And what about all the collector stuff? What about their 10 year plan? all of that would become empty promises for sure if they squashed everyone's char after all we've been through with this ****. plus, it destroys the concept of a MMO they are trying to build towards. IF they develop everything like they say- OP beta players won't matter as much because n00b players exposure to getting wasted by them will be diluted with more to do... PVE, proper match making, etc. right now it's the same variation of the same map with the same small group of people day in and day out. rinse repeat. and then do it again. this game is staler than a hoarded twinkie at this point.
mollerz Minja Scouts 446	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:41:00 - [13] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Controls, in terms of core mechanics, are pretty good right now. This can only be improved to an extent before lag/frame rate and hit detection issues, combined with the fact that in this shooter it takes more than 2 bullets to kill somebody, make it seem as if the mechanics are wonky but in actual fact it's because you're meant to take longer to kill someone. Go home, you're drunk. the core mechanics are fuk'd as fun right now.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2013.06.19 07:47:00 - [14] - Quote I find some good points but I must disagree with certain aspects. First of all I'm not sure about putting it offline. I think it might be a finishing blow to the game. Will people come back to it? I don't know. I TOTALLY agree about Skills and SP. About weapon balance, I may agree auto AR are more versatile than any other weapon (and that's obviously a problem, yes) BUT that's because A LOT of weapons are suffering bugs (ex: Mass Driver) or they are awfully underpowered (ex: Laser Rifle). I think they have to be fixed/buffed to compete with the currently effective guns or we will be shooting paper bullets. Stop this nerf wave, please, just stop it. Balance means nerf/buff, not just NERF until everything is USELESS. In particular: You can't really say Mass Driver is good 1v1. It is overnerfed and is suffering an AWFUL smoke trial desync... Do you really want to nerf this gun? Because I want it better. Tactical is (finally) fine now and Breach AR is NOT overpowered AT ALL. You can't put in a general nerf to AR or you're about to destroy the poor Breach AR, the underdog of AR's. Please do not do anything bad to this poor weapon... Also you can't nerf TAC again, come on. It will be useless AGAIN. Shotgun I think it's one of the most balanced weapons right now. Laser Rifles need a serious buff... About Damage bonuses, I agree they are annoying but unfortunately they actually ARE in some games... you're wrong about Uncharted, because Rate of Fire Mod IS a Damage mode there, expecially when you blindfire you don't even get a penalty to your accuracy... 50% of M9 and KAL7 (already nooby and ridicolous weapon) users put a RoF mod on their gun and that's TERRIBLE. I think we could think of some kind of limitation to Damage Modules, I don't know. An Assaulter with a full auto AR and Damage mode is obviously a pain in your butt, but I think Snipers need quite much a Damage module in their suit. Shield extenders, let's see... A % system will clearly advantage heavies, who benefit already from upgrading shield skills (+5% dropsuits shield per level means +20 shield points per level which is VERY good) and totally disadvantage scouts... so no, I disagree. As for general improvements (aiming/lag/frame rate) I feel they are NEEDED and right now. But I think this can be done without putting DUST offline.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 103	Posted - 2013.06.19 09:14:00 - [15] - Quote Putting it offline will kill it. No revenue, no players, no nothing. Nobody except EVE players would wait for it. And even most of them wouldn't. Keeping it online and iterating slowly will leave only the more hardcore gamers (and EVE scrubs). I might be among them, even if mostly passive SP for me. (And that respec, pls.) OP, it seems you've put a lot of thought into your post, but your opening proposal is just not viable. What CCP should do is they should hire people with FPS experience and stop nerfing when people nag them on forums and IRC. I heard they had some BF people on board, but after few months it still doesn't show. I like playing this game. I hate having FPS drops, voice bugs, hard freezes, infinite loading screens, market glitches etc. The aiming mechanics could use some work as well. So a middle ground should be: how about you leave this game and go play some finished products, OP, and get back when CCP is done? Just pretend it's offline and don't take it from people who actually like it now.
Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 18	Posted - 2013.06.19 09:46:00 - [16] - Quote Just wanted to address one thing. The competition mentioned are all twitch shooters, Dust isn't. That is not saying core shooting mechanics don't need work, just that a direct comparison to a different type of shooter is inherently flawed. If on the other hand Dust were to become a twitch shooter it would lose more players than it would gain due to the twitch market being over saturated. That said I don't think taking dust offline is necessary to fix issues, instead I think the solution is (and I may get flamed for saying this) to put aside new content for a while and ignore players requesting anything but fixes until core mechanics are ironed out. In addition, leaving the game running allows feedback on the updates to core mechanics. The core mechanics I refer to are movement, aiming, clipping, vehicle handling, input responsiveness, hit detection, custom controller mapping, and other basic fps functionalities. I would still play dust as is because I enjoy it despite its current short comings. People who can't see past those short comings are not likely to continue playing when the next installment of their favorite shooter comes out anyway. Now despite all this, they are working on core mechanics now while doing new content. This means it might take longer, but again, I will still continue to play.
Draco Dustflier DUST University Ivy League 75	Posted - 2013.06.19 09:55:00 - [17] - Quote Vaux Karn wrote: Just wanted to address one thing. The competition mentioned are all twitch shooters, Dust isn't. That is not saying core shooting mechanics don't need work, just that a direct comparison to a different type of shooter is inherently flawed. If on the other hand Dust were to become a twitch shooter it would lose more players than it would gain due to the twitch market being over saturated. That said I don't think taking dust offline is necessary to fix issues, instead I think the solution is (and I may get flamed for saying this) to put aside new content for a while and ignore players requesting anything but fixes until core mechanics are ironed out. In addition, leaving the game running allows feedback on the updates to core mechanics. The core mechanics I refer to are movement, aiming, clipping, vehicle handling, input responsiveness, hit detection, custom controller mapping, and other basic fps functionalities. I would still play dust as is because I enjoy it despite its current short comings. People who can't see past those short comings are not likely to continue playing when the next installment of their favorite shooter comes out anyway. Now despite all this, they are working on core mechanics now while doing new content. This means it might take longer, but again, I will still continue to play. Planetside 2 is a persistent aim shooter, not a twitch shooter.
steadyhand amarr Amarr Immortal Volunteers 729	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:14:00 - [18] - Quote I took a break played last of us came back and quite enjoyed last night. Tbh I'm looking forward to the new maps and dropsuits. My bro played last night after a year break and basicly said it's a like a new game he enjoyed it quite a lot
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 207	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:20:00 - [19] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I took a break played last of us came back and quite enjoyed last night. Tbh I'm looking forward to the new maps and dropsuits. My bro played last night after a year break and basicly said it's a like a new game he enjoyed it quite a lot Last of Us is amazing but in an entirely different way to Dust. I have yet to get past the third chapter but boy have I already been back through the missions half a dozen times to get them just right. However yeah I come back to Dust and im always less frustrated.
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH 73	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:31:00 - [20] - Quote This is going to be the most contrraversial part. None of the isk or sp earned on ps3 should carry over to the ps4. I know this is a painful proposition, but think about it: 99% of newcomers are stomped on so badly after the acsdemy that they quit the game. i got about 20 of my friends to try the game, and all of them left because they realized the beta players got a ridiculous head start and they would never catch up. the amount of players you lose because of this will probably not exceed 500. the amount of players you will gain if you do this right on ps4 will be enormous compwared to that. YOU MUST BE ON DRUGS !!!!!!!!

FatalFlaw V1 ISK Faucet Industries 101	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:48:00 - [21] - Quote They don't need to take it offline to fix it. All they really need to do is look at where the game was a year ago, roll back every single change that was prompted by forum whiners and only leave in bug fixes and improvements. That would be a good start.
Syther Shadows The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 142	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:55:00 - [22] - Quote just popping in to let you know i did not read this :P
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH 73	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:58:00 - [23] - Quote Just because YOUR TIME doesn't mean squad to you ...mine means a hell of lot to me. I invested time and money in this game so go and F**K yourself ...if you have that much spare time...You prob don't work and don't have the means to support yourself or this game ...... As for new players ...harden the up ...this is Eve...we have a culture of "only the fittest survive ..so if you cant stand the heat gtfo ! This is hardcore entertainment for hardcore players ...! My gf (never played a fps before ) started off with Dust as a logi and shes doing fine)...so whats wrong with you Mr TUFF FORUM WARRIOR ... CCP WILL make DUST 514 a 5 star FPS. Why because there is a certain breed in new Eden that will support CCP till they put their last lights off, something you COD new flavor of the month boys wont understand... Im so GDSick of all this nagging and bitching ...If I was CCP I would insist on an api and kick the whole lot of you wet nappies out of the forums.. The Eve pilots don't give a about the Dust community .. why because there is no community ! Just a bunch of ** heads thats ever crying on the one and only thing that is priority in their life ...A GAME I feel better now ...
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH 73	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:13:00 - [24] - Quote My therapist recommends ..blowing off steam , it helps with the anger management .
Dale Templar Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 172	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:32:00 - [25] - Quote did not read
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 673	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:32:00 - [26] - Quote Captain Africa Clone1 wrote: "This is going to be the most contrraversial part. None of the isk or sp earned on ps3 should carry over to the ps4. I know this is a painful proposition, but think about it: 99% of newcomers are stomped on so badly after the acsdemy that they quit the game. Just because YOUR TIME doesn't mean squad to you ...mine means a hell of lot to me. I invested time and money in this game so go and F****K yourself ...if you have that much spare time...You prob don't work and don't have the means to support yourself or this game ...... Yea, I feel this way also. I've already got my packs and my AUR and my SP that I earned. I had to stretch and find time where I could away from my kids, time that I didn't spend working overtime where I could have made more $$. My time is valuable to me, I measure it in $$. if I go see a movie or have a fight with my wife or get stuck in traffic, I know how much that stuff cost me, and its alot. So, F this idea.
BMSTUBBYxx Algintal Core Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:17:00 - [27] - Quote Draco Dustflier wrote: What i suggest is giving this game to a developer who can make a FPS first then hand it back and insert the MMO stuff. Here is your TL:DR version. Your welcome
Severance Pay Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 399	Posted - 2013.06.19 13:38:00 - [28] - Quote Although I don't agree that CCP needs to take DUST offline to fix these bugs, because they develope and test on a different server in a different country than tranquility. I do agree that scrapping the current DUST is probably good for PR. They can take a few steps back and really analyze DUST and come up with a serious gameplan to make something great. I think there is a lot to be gained from starting over and taking it back to the drawing board. Being unsatisfied my opinion on my state of mind is that I have spent too long being unsatisfied. I want this game to do wrll, and we are alk so desperate to help because we do not want DUST to fail. We do not think it will, we just want to be happy while we play it. Is that too much to ask?
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F 311	Posted - 2013.06.19 13:40:00 - [29] - Quote useless wall of text >.>
Bjorei Sevarre Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:12:00 - [30] - Quote I think I agree with you. DUST would benefit from some more "garage time" before it makes it back out to the show room. To me, it's like CCP set out to develop a very nice automobile with tons of features. They've got cruise control, GPS navigation, road-side assistance, amphibious capability, rocket packs...all very nice, but they put in a lawnmower motor and permanently-affixed, wooden, square wheels. =/ Rather than worrying about updating the firmware on the Dolby 7.1 HD radio, they really should be addressing the square wheels and engine problems first. Draco Dustflier wrote: This is going to be the most contrraversial part. None of the isk or sp earned on ps3 should carry over to the ps4. I know this is a painful proposition, but think about it: 99% of newcomers are stomped on so badly after the acsdemy that they quit the game. i got about 20 of my friends to try the game, and all of them left because they realized the beta players got a ridiculous head start and they would never catch up. the amount of players you lose because of this will probably not exceed 500. the amount of players you will gain if you do this right on ps4 will be enormous compwared to that. I would not mind a character wipe before DUST 2.0 (with basic FPS functionality) rolls out; however, I would expect to be compensated for the time and money I've invested already. I would say that characters who exist now (and who have above a certain number of SP) be granted, in the New and Improve DUST, a permanent boost to SP gain, and maybe a special, 30-day ISK booster, as well as a pack of Aurum and/or free Merc Pack. I definitely agree that DUST would benefit from a hiatus and rebuild, and as long as there is some consideration given to existing players, I also support a character wipe prior to the re-launch.



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