DUST Search - The heavy suit is ahead of its time.

Tectonious Falcon wrote:

Kitten Empress wrote:

Tectonious Falcon wrote:

I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that"

I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be.

Actually, they talked about suits, not weapons.
A heavy can still use assault rifles you know.
I actually saw some people being really effective in those at AR ranges, even more so than most assaults.

Weapons dictate what you are, not suits.
Can you say that Nova knives dictate you to CQC?
Yes.
Can you say sniper rifles dictate you to long range?
Yes.

And yet CCP said Heavy suits were made for point defence.

Suits definitely affect what you are, maybe not as much as weapons, but they do.

Sniping in a heavy suit means no stealth, hard to get into high positions, no nano hives or uplinks, almost no high slots.

Using a mass driver in a logistics suit means you will be a very support oriented player, because you have no sidearm go fall back on and the mass driver is very unreliable for killing people.

Weapons dictate your effective range and that's about it.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 634	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:34:00 - [1] - Quote By what CCP said, heavy suits + HMG are point defense/ CQC suits. Problem is, the maps are so huge that getting into CQC is a tricky part. Most people I know avoid the heavy and stay far away from its HMG optimal. But if they DO encounter a heavy in CQC, and the heavy can see them, its either run away or die. What about point defense? Most points have perfect view for snipers coming from everywhere, and all other suits can just gun them down before they get close. There is one map, I forgot which, that has a control point in relative CQC, and man oh man is the heavy a pain in the arse to deal with there. I believe the heavy will be shining in CQC maps, which don't exist yet. So what should we do? Balance the heavy for what we have now, or wait for CCP to release CQC maps so that their idea of a heavy would be useful?
Tectonious Falcon Phaze O n e 569	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:41:00 - [2] - Quote I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be.
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 634	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:42:00 - [3] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. Actually, they talked about suits, not weapons. A heavy can still use assault rifles you know. I actually saw some people being really effective in those at AR ranges, even more so than most assaults. Weapons dictate what you are, not suits. Can you say that Nova knives dictate you to CQC? Yes. Can you say sniper rifles dictate you to long range? Yes.
Tectonious Falcon Phaze O n e 569	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:48:00 - [4] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. Actually, they talked about suits, not weapons. A heavy can still use assault rifles you know. I actually saw some people being really effective in those at AR ranges, even more so than most assaults. Weapons dictate what you are, not suits. Can you say that Nova knives dictate you to CQC? Yes. Can you say sniper rifles dictate you to long range? Yes. And yet CCP said Heavy suits were made for point defence. Suits definitely affect what you are, maybe not as much as weapons, but they do. Sniping in a heavy suit means no stealth, hard to get into high positions, no nano hives or uplinks, almost no high slots. Using a mass driver in a logistics suit means you will be a very support oriented player, because you have no sidearm go fall back on and the mass driver is very unreliable for killing people. Weapons dictate your effective range and that's about it.
Judge Rhadamanthus Kapow Heavy Industries 157	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:50:00 - [5] - Quote See you can use a heavy as say assault, not just point defense. Jump out a drop ship (low enough so you don't get the debilitating interta dampener) and you can be a deadly assault on a point. Sure it requires teamwork, but that is supposed to be a strong element of this game. Some of the stronger, more flexible ways to play are more difficult due to the help of others being needed. For example nova knives.. tricky; but i have (just once) as a drop ship pilot dropped 4 Knifers right into the thick of it from my DS. They cleaned up a great mass of guys. It did take a corp group and comms, so yes I do agree its not solo play but it's this non solo play type where the flexibility of some roles lies. My drop ship is the same. Alone I do okay. Give me two specced gunners and at least one tank for ground support and what I can do opens up.
Poplo Furuya Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:57:00 - [6] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. I think you're maybe taking that to too much of an extreme. There's leeway for alteration, it's just that going all-in on something that doesn't capitalise on a dropsuit's specialisation or even goes against it might not produce viable results. You can stick at least 3 Complex Plates and some extenders on a proto Gallente scout and end up in the higher echelons of typical medium frame hp, it's just that movement penalties galore and lack of biotics undermines the speed advantage they're based on. Likewise you could get a Sentinel Heavy with it's 4 low slots and stack up kin cats and a cardiac. Look, I don't defend CCP often. They don't pay me enough. I think you might be misconstruing what they said, though, that or they phrased it badly. I think what they actually meant was that the heavy is naturally suited for CQC point defence, not that it's supposed to be all that they're about.
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 634	Posted - 2013.06.17 11:58:00 - [7] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: Kitten Empress wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. Actually, they talked about suits, not weapons. A heavy can still use assault rifles you know. I actually saw some people being really effective in those at AR ranges, even more so than most assaults. Weapons dictate what you are, not suits. Can you say that Nova knives dictate you to CQC? Yes. Can you say sniper rifles dictate you to long range? Yes. And yet CCP said Heavy suits were made for point defence. Suits definitely affect what you are, maybe not as much as weapons, but they do. Sniping in a heavy suit means no stealth, hard to get into high positions, no nano hives or uplinks, almost no high slots. Using a mass driver in a logistics suit means you will be a very support oriented player, because you have no sidearm go fall back on and the mass driver is very unreliable for killing people. Weapons dictate your effective range and that's about it. Yes, suits do dictate. But to a point. If all suits could do what other suits do, what would be the point of different suits? Also about sniper heavy, there are modules made to make you stealthy. They're very underused, but in this situation, if you REALLY want stealth, put a couple of those on.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 568	Posted - 2013.06.17 12:02:00 - [8] - Quote Ever seen what hapens when a heavy maxes out on plates, extenders, and then walks into a room with a shotgun? i have, and he murdered 4 people before reloading and killing the last guy. Definetly not point defence HMG + LAV = Not point defence HMG charging a choke point... yep Forge gun sniper... yep Forge gun shotgun... yep Scout tank... yep Logi assault... yep This game alows a huge variety of playstyles... trying to restrict that is bad... mmm kay
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 634	Posted - 2013.06.17 12:10:00 - [9] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Ever seen what hapens when a heavy maxes out on plates, extenders, and then walks into a room with a shotgun? i have, and he murdered 4 people before reloading and killing the last guy. Definetly not point defence HMG + LAV = Not point defence HMG charging a choke point... yep Forge gun sniper... yep Forge gun shotgun... yep Scout tank... yep Logi assault... yep This game alows a huge variety of playstyles... trying to restrict that is bad... mmm kay See, the HMG situations are harder to pull off. Choke points aren't common in this game, and LAV's require you to be vehicle bound. So changing playstyle is possible, just harder than classes that are intended for this specific playstyle. Also, I was talking about the HMG, not the heavy suit. Heavy suits can do whatever they want, but weapons usually restrict your play style. Also, logi assault isn't a good example, as it is better in every way than normal assaults. Seriously, no real drawbacks that can't be corrected with the extra slots logis have, in addition to two-three more equipment slots.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 568	Posted - 2013.06.17 12:19:00 - [10] - Quote It might be difficult but saying heavies are point defence is still incorrect. That is not how i use them, and its not how many heavy's i know use them. Slowing us down might make it longer for us to get somewhere... but i will still get there if thats what i want to do. HMG's have restrictions, but that doesnt stop me working with what they can do in different ways. Ah i knew someone would say something about the logi lol, it is broken, agreed, imagine im talking about a minmatar logi... but the example still stands

Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 635	Posted - 2013.06.17 12:39:00 - [11] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: It might be difficult but saying heavies are point defence is still incorrect. That is not how i use them, and its not how many heavy's i know use them. Slowing us down might make it longer for us to get somewhere... but i will still get there if thats what i want to do. HMG's have restrictions, but that doesnt stop me working with what they can do in different ways. Ah i knew someone would say something about the logi lol, it is broken, agreed, imagine im talking about a minmatar logi... but the example still stands As I said, its HMG that is restricted to point defense. You CAN use it outside of it, but it won't be as effective as other weapons in that situation. The heavy however, isn't.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 568	Posted - 2013.06.17 12:47:00 - [12] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: It might be difficult but saying heavies are point defence is still incorrect. That is not how i use them, and its not how many heavy's i know use them. Slowing us down might make it longer for us to get somewhere... but i will still get there if thats what i want to do. HMG's have restrictions, but that doesnt stop me working with what they can do in different ways. Ah i knew someone would say something about the logi lol, it is broken, agreed, imagine im talking about a minmatar logi... but the example still stands As I said, its HMG that is restricted to point defense. You CAN use it outside of it, but it won't be as effective as other weapons in that situation. The heavy however, isn't. If a heavy isnt restricted to point defence, then a heavy with a HMG isnt either
Byozuma Kegawa Shining Flame Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2013.06.17 12:57:00 - [13] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Kitten Empress wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: It might be difficult but saying heavies are point defence is still incorrect. That is not how i use them, and its not how many heavy's i know use them. Slowing us down might make it longer for us to get somewhere... but i will still get there if thats what i want to do. HMG's have restrictions, but that doesnt stop me working with what they can do in different ways. Ah i knew someone would say something about the logi lol, it is broken, agreed, imagine im talking about a minmatar logi... but the example still stands As I said, its HMG that is restricted to point defense. You CAN use it outside of it, but it won't be as effective as other weapons in that situation. The heavy however, isn't. If a heavy isnt restricted to point defence, then a heavy with a HMG isnt either This argument you're making about weapons define the suit is an, "X is Y, therefore Z" argument. If Assault dropsuits could carry an HMG I bet you'd say those dropsuits are point defense. No, a better example is the forge gun. Only Heavy dropsuits can use the forge gun, but it takes a crack shot to routinely get infantry kills with it making it's point defense capability rather pathetic. But that's not what a forge gun's primary role is, it's anti-vehicle. Any driver or pilot that ignores a forge gun is either stupid, or already running for cover. Weapons determine the role, not the dropsuits. Dropsuits just provide the means of using the weapons.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2013.06.17 13:01:00 - [14] - Quote Heavy suits are pretty BA,Been running it with a AR and it's pretty effective but only for the extra range i get with it,maybe i should try the HMGs
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals 233	Posted - 2013.06.17 13:06:00 - [15] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: Heavy suits are pretty BA,Been running it with a AR and it's pretty effective but only for the extra range i get with it,maybe i should try the HMGs lol make sure you dont run out in the open if the AR user spots you first be sure to take a lot of dmg before you can get into optimal range. but if you spot him first well then fire away and watch him die
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 26	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:00:00 - [16] - Quote since when did large heavy unwieldy weapons that require huge armoured power assisted suits = close quarter weapons. i dont know about you lot but that just does not make sense in the slightest
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 241	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:54:00 - [17] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: Actually, they talked about suits, not weapons. A heavy can still use assault rifles you know. I actually saw some people being really effective in those at AR ranges, even more so than most assaults. This is a bastardization of the Heavy, and greatly offends me. I gun these guys down the instant I encounter them. In practice it is not so viable. They are to slow and can easily be outmaneuvered by actual Assault class Mercs. They have no equipment slots so they cannot resupply themselves with ammo, thus they outlive their usefulness in battle, and become highly dependent on logis for resupply and armor repair. If it were up to me I would eliminate the ability to equip Light weapons in heavy slots Side arms in light slots
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3860	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:56:00 - [18] - Quote If they make the commando slower than normal heavies I am going to facepalm so hard that my face will actually become my palm.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1968	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:56:00 - [19] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. Sentinels are meant for point defence. My best friend uses her Heavy suit to run around with Assault players and blap enemy suits with her Proto Forge Guns.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 568	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:59:00 - [20] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. Sentinels are meant for point defence. My best friend uses her Heavy suit to run around with Assault players and blap enemy suits with her Proto Forge Guns. Only good thing about the HMG nurf... My Forge gun skills are now pimpin lol

Aisha Ctarl The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 266	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:16:00 - [21] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: I remember CCP saying they weren't going to force you to use suits in a generic "class" system, saying things like " if you want to be a heavy that's light on his feet, or a scout that has heaps of health, then you can do that" I'm kind of pissed off that CCP have now turned around and said that heavies are meant to be used for point defence and that's it. They're going back on everything this game was meant to be. Actually, they talked about suits, not weapons. A heavy can still use assault rifles you know. I actually saw some people being really effective in those at AR ranges, even more so than most assaults. Weapons dictate what you are, not suits. Can you say that Nova knives dictate you to CQC? Yes. Can you say sniper rifles dictate you to long range? Yes. I can tell you, an assault scout is quite deadly. I use the Gallente G-1 Scout suit along with the GEK and I rack up the kills with frightening ease.
Avallo Kantor DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:24:00 - [22] - Quote Also to add to the above posts, general use suits aren't suited for any role, which means you can fit them out to do just about any role (some better than others). However the specialized suits ARE designed to fulfill a certain role. That's the price of specialization. You sacrifice your ability to easily have that suit fulfill a large variety of roles so that they can become very skilled in one. (Although it could be said certain suits can still do mostly anything despite this.) For example, when the pilot suit comes out it'll be much better at ... piloting... then say run and gun gameplay with a shotgun. The sentinel is much the same way, slower and designed for Defense. They can prove to be quite deadly in certain circumstances, for example Domination where there is a single point that everyone is trying to attack / defend. General suits can be used for all sorts of purposes (success varying) like heavy snipers, heavily tanked lights to be bait, etc etc. Specialized suits are built to do one task exceptionally well, often at the detriment to other roles.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 324	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:33:00 - [23] - Quote In this thread, OP confuses an entire suit with one weapon available to said suit. ASSAULTS ARE ONLY FOR CQ CAUSE SHOTGUNS DONT SHOOT FAR!
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 638	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:59:00 - [24] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: In this thread, OP confuses an entire suit with one weapon available to said suit. ASSAULTS ARE ONLY FOR CQ CAUSE SHOTGUNS DONT SHOOT FAR! meh. Saying heavy is easier than "A HMG user".


Pages: 1 :: [one page]