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Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
91
   |
Posted - 2013.06.17 04:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let us compare Total Splash Damage Given to a Single Target of the MD and Flaylock. I will compare the damage done at a few key times. Those points being the ones at which the MD and flaylock fire all the shots in their clips and when they complete the reload cycle.
0 seconds(First shot)
215.5 - Core Flaylock
127.6 - Freedom Mass Driver
1 second after time of engagement.(Second shot for mass driver.)
643.5 dmg - Core Flaylock
382.8 dmg - Freedom Mass Driver
Since CCP has neglected to give us a rate of fire on the Flaylock, I will be using "1 second" as the time it takes for the flaylock to clear it's clip. I am picking this number because it is a high estimate of the time it takes.
At this point in the engagement, if you armor or speed tank, you are probably dead if they were using a core flaylock.
3.5 seconds (Core flaylock finishes reload cycle, but hasn't fired) after engagement.
642.5 dmg - Core Flaylock
510.4 dmg - Freedom Mass Driver (Four shots).
Uh oh. The Mass driver never catches up to the flaylock in damage output even after the flaylock's first reload. This is going to get ugly by the time the mass driver gets to the same point the flaylock is here now.
5 seconds (Flaylock finished with second barrage and MD fires sixth shot)
1285 dmg - Core flaylock
1020.8 dmg - Freedom Mass Driver (Six shots).
7 Seconds (Third flaylock barrage complete)
1930.5 - Core Flaylock
1020.8 - Freedom Mass Driver ( Two seconds into reload)
10.5 Seconds (Fourth Flaylock Barrage and Mass Driver has reloaded and taken two additional shots)
2574 dmg- Core Flaylock
1276 dmg - Freedom Mass Driver
Total DPS accounting for reloading
642.5 /3.5 = 183.57 - Core Flaylock
1020.8/9.0=113.42- Freedom Mass Driver
I'm going to stop now, because I think I have enough info to make my point and I am getting tired of doing maths.
The Core flaylock does too much burst and sustained damage. At no point in the engagement does the mass driver out damage the flaylock and over time, the flaylock tends to do significantly (60%) more damage. The flaylock does more damage without mods or proficiency skill than a mass driver with maxed proficiency and two damage mods.
And this is all with a high estimate of rate of fire. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
91
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Posted - 2013.06.17 04:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
I may wish to compare them further. |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 04:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Never talk bad about the Core GODlock Pistol! It was brought down by Zeus himself! |
Syther Shadows
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
the Mass driver just needs a bit of a buff tbh ~
but i think the flaylock should focus more on direct damage
and reduce the splash
so rewarding players who take a risk and actually hit there target over playing safe and hitting the ground |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Syther Shadows wrote:the Mass driver just needs a bit of a buff tbh ~
but i think the flaylock should focus more on direct damage
and reduce the splash
so rewarding players who take a risk and actually hit there target over playing safe and hitting the ground
Noooo, we need splash too! It's fine as is! dual wield Godlock FTW! |
GLiMPSE X
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
161
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Flaylock makes my **** soft :-( |
Kane Fyea
DUST University
Ivy League
368
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Syther Shadows wrote:the Mass driver just needs a bit of a buff tbh ~
but i think the flaylock should focus more on direct damage
and reduce the splash
so rewarding players who take a risk and actually hit there target over playing safe and hitting the ground
Might as well make it have no splash. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
95
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time... |
Kane Fyea
DUST University
Ivy League
368
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time...
I'd say more like 2 seconds. |
Golda Go
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
lOlmassdriver
I have one that's 100 times better it's called fused locus grenades. |
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Cruor Abominare
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time...
It's roughly 2.5 seconds which changes things dramatically.
Though I find it weird that they get compared so often since they're used in incredibly different roles.
Everyone just see lerk shplashh weppin! And assumes they're the same. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
97
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cruor Abominare wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time... It's roughly 2.5 seconds which changes things dramatically. Though I find it weird that they get compared so often since they're used in incredibly different roles. Everyone just see lerk shplashh weppin! And assumes they're the same.
Not Reload. I know it doesn't take 2.5 seconds to fire the 3 shots.
And I am almost sure that I am comparing apples with apples.
They are both projectile explosive weapons that are equipped by infantry.. If you can't compare these two guns, then I'm not sure that you can compare any two guns. |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
491
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Cruor Abominare wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time... It's roughly 2.5 seconds which changes things dramatically. Though I find it weird that they get compared so often since they're used in incredibly different roles. Everyone just see lerk shplashh weppin! And assumes they're the same. Not Reload. I know it doesn't take 2.5 seconds to fire the 3 shots. And I am almost sure that I am comparing apples with apples. They are both projectile explosive weapons that are equipped by infantry.. If you can't compare these two guns, then I'm not sure that you can compare any two guns.
If you take away GODlock I won't be good though :( |
Cruor Abominare
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Cruor Abominare wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time... It's roughly 2.5 seconds which changes things dramatically. Though I find it weird that they get compared so often since they're used in incredibly different roles. Everyone just see lerk shplashh weppin! And assumes they're the same. Not Reload. I know it doesn't take 2.5 seconds to fire the 3 shots. And I am almost sure that I am comparing apples with apples. They are both projectile explosive weapons that are equipped by infantry.. If you can't compare these two guns, then I'm not sure that you can compare any two guns.
It's between 2 and 2.5 seconds, at least on the gn20 maybe the core is faster I don't know. It's certainly not one second lol. The flay lock is mostly a finisher/last ditch lav deterrent. It takes a huge penalty to fighting shields and you would really only open with it versus some ****** militia suit which nothing should ever be balanced towards.
Additionally it's a straight fire weapon with a smaller splash and a tiny clip.
On the other hand a mass driver takes a primary slot, fires in arcs, has a much larger splash and fits a suppression/flushing role and has double the clip. Can also be used as a crowd control weapon.
So yea I would say they're used in different roles, and I'd agree that the mass driver could use some help, namely I would suggest fixing the splash bug and making the projectile only explode when it hits the ground instead of immediate blast when it hits max range to help it have a mortar like use.
However I certIly don't think the game needs a six round stronger flay lock that you run and gun with at close range and expect multikills shooting at people's feet, which is really what you normally hear on these forums.
Diversity is neat.
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Golda Go
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Cruor Abominare wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time... It's roughly 2.5 seconds which changes things dramatically. Though I find it weird that they get compared so often since they're used in incredibly different roles. Everyone just see lerk shplashh weppin! And assumes they're the same. Not Reload. I know it doesn't take 2.5 seconds to fire the 3 shots. And I am almost sure that I am comparing apples with apples. They are both projectile explosive weapons that are equipped by infantry.. If you can't compare these two guns, then I'm not sure that you can compare any two guns. If you take away GODlock I won't be good though :(
fused nades
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XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
493
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Posted - 2013.06.17 05:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Golda Go wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Cruor Abominare wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Does anyone think that my 1 second estimate of the time it takes to unload a flaylock clip is too low?
That is the lynchpin of my argument. CCP, how about we actually include basic information required to make logical choices next time... It's roughly 2.5 seconds which changes things dramatically. Though I find it weird that they get compared so often since they're used in incredibly different roles. Everyone just see lerk shplashh weppin! And assumes they're the same. Not Reload. I know it doesn't take 2.5 seconds to fire the 3 shots. And I am almost sure that I am comparing apples with apples. They are both projectile explosive weapons that are equipped by infantry.. If you can't compare these two guns, then I'm not sure that you can compare any two guns. If you take away GODlock I won't be good though :( fused nades
I get 6 shots tho running 2 Godlocks. Not including other clips.
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XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
493
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
I can't wait for Reload while sprinting! I can shoot my 3 shots off swap weapon shoot my 3 shots off and sprint away while reloading and turn around and shoot 600 more dmg :) CCP HURRY!! |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
I want numbers. I want someone with video capture to figure this out.
Or CCP could just tell us. Like they should have in the first place. This information should have been in the patch notes. This information should be in the game. Gaston's Forge has the same issue currently, but that value was included in previous builds? and is known. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 21:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
I am bumping this. Self- Bump. |
Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
83
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 21:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Not saying that this doesnt need to be looked at, but I would just like to point out the mass drivers blast radius, can be quite nifty against groups. And the fact that they are very different weapons. |
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Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
913
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Posted - 2013.06.17 21:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mass Driver needs a buff to compete. I've been saying this since first the two days when everybody thought Flaylocks were trash. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1855
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 21:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
You know what's worse? The Flaylock deals more damage than the Freedom, before the nerf. Guess there weren't enough people in the office using the Flaylock |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
This pisses me off as a MD user. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Not saying that this doesnt need to be looked at, but I would just like to point out the mass drivers blast radius, can be quite nifty against groups. And the fact that they are very different weapons.
They have the same advantages and disadvantages. As range increases, the MD becomes relatively more powerful until the Flaylock hits max range, where the mass driver finally overtakes it.
The Flaylock is actually better at the traditional mass driver role shooting straight down on people... It's projectiles are faster and does significantly more damage. At significant range the mass drivers travel time makes hitting people into a guessing game. Where are they going to be in 4 seconds? Are they going to run for cover?
The blast radius *is* significantly better than the Flaylock's. At close range I am going to hit you in the feet with either of them. Hitting multiple people with blasts is difficult. Player's bodies block the explosion from hitting other players. The Flaylock is 60% more effective in close quarters battles (A great deal of battles). The mass driver nerf affected it most at medium/long range. It has always been a guessing game, but now you just aren't right as often as you would like and the damage payout is minimal. They are outside of flux range and you are mostly just making them feel uncomfortable more than anything. Hitting people behind cover is also significantly more difficult
The burst damage on the flaylock is incredible. I am pretty sure it hard counters Heavy +Logi healing combos. And armor tanks. And scouts, and is still very effective against everyone else. All for 2 PG in a side arm slot. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Not saying that this doesnt need to be looked at, but I would just like to point out the mass drivers blast radius, can be quite nifty against groups. And the fact that they are very different weapons.
The damage doesn't work right in groups.
I've flanked people in big groups where two MD rounds should take out 4 or 5 people in a group (of 1/4 armor) and it's like it can't figure out what's going on.
You are lucky to get 1 kill 9 times out of 10.
Most of the time they all turn around after you've emptied your clip and you have to run away. AND my squad has to listen to me ***** about it. |
Cass Barr
Red Star.
EoN.
308
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cruor Abominare wrote:It takes a huge penalty to fighting shields and you would really only open with it versus some ****** militia suit which nothing should ever be balanced towards.
You clearly haven't tried these against any Armor suit.
Yes, some Gallente suits do exist.
But not for much longer, when they run into one of these. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1860
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Spademan wrote:Not saying that this doesnt need to be looked at, but I would just like to point out the mass drivers blast radius, can be quite nifty against groups. And the fact that they are very different weapons. The damage doesn't work right in groups. I've flanked people in big groups where two MD rounds should take out 4 or 5 people in a group (of 1/4 armor) and it's like it can't figure out what's going on. You are lucky to get 1 kill 9 times out of 10. Most of the time they all turn around after you've emptied your clip and you have to run away. AND my squad has to listen to me ***** about it.
I know that feel too... |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lets take a look at the Min proto assault with 1 damage mod, rank 5 proficiency and two flaylocks.
Flaylock shot output 3-->4
X 2 for the second flaylock
=8
214.5 damage *1.15 * 1.10 =271.34
271.34 x 8 shots =2170.72 damage
Im pretty sure they can do that before you can kill them. And that is two players worth of damage. That guy just soloed you and your buddy. He can do half of that again in 2.5 or all of it again in 5.
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xjumpman23
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
354
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
weeks ago I said the flaylock was a noob tube and I still stand by that. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1867
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 22:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
xjumpman23 wrote:weeks ago I said the flaylock was a noob tube and I still stand by that.
Except this is a buff MD thread, not a nerf Flaylock QQ... |
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